Is there a present burning hell where departed souls of the wicked are sent?

I forgot all about this one:

23 And in Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have pity and mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Child, remember that you in your lifetime fully received [what is due you in] comforts and delights, and Lazarus in like manner the discomforts and distresses; but now he is comforted here and you are in anguish.
26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who want to pass from this [place] to you may not be able, and no one may pass from there to us.
27 And [the man] said, Then, father, I beseech you to send him to my father’s house—
28 For I have five brothers—so that he may give [solemn] testimony and warn them, lest they too come into this place of torment.
29 But Abraham said, They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear and listen to them.
30 But he answered, No, father Abraham, but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent (change their minds for the better and heartily amend their ways, with abhorrence of their past sins).
31 He said to him, If they do not hear and listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded and convinced and believe [even] if someone should rise from the dead.
Luke 16:23–31.
This is a parable, and can easily be proven~Jesus spoke this based upon those seeking their riches NOW in this world.

A good article on this portion of the scriptures. https://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/lazarus.html

While I may not necessarily agree with everything another person teaches, when they have truth overall on a subject, then I can accept it and be thankful for it, and rejoice in the truth being preached.


Philippians 1:16-18~"The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."
 
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Various theories on the location of hell have been put forward.
There is no place at the moment called hellfire.

Jesus only used the phrase hell fire once. mentioned in two places~ in the Mark 9:47 and....

Matthew 18:9​


“And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.”

He used hell once adding fire in the same sentence

Mark 9:45​


“And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:”

Of course the scriptures speaks of the lake of fire where the scriptures speaks of the baptism of fire where the wicked shall be destroyed, and the smoke of their destruction shall rise for ever and ever. (Revelation 14:11) which only proves that their destruction cannot ever change, it is eternal destruction

Matthew 3:7-12~"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Here we see John the Baptist warning the Pharisees and Sadducees concerning being baptized WITH FIRE, unquenchable fire,! Everlasting fire! That will destroyed (burn up) the wicked, or cause them to PERISH, just as Jesus' taught more than once. John 3:16; Luke 13:3, etc.

At the moment the righteous, when they die are with Jesus Christ, since they have eternal life, the wicked are not so, they are in hell, or the grave (we can come back and prove that hell is used in different senses in the scriptures, ONLY when fire is connected to it does it have reference to the lake of fire, where the wicked shall be destroyed forever) waiting for the resurrection on the last day, where they shall be raised to stand before God, to be judged and then cast into the lake of fire, which will be this earth when it is destroyed by fervent heat as prophesied by the Prophets and by Peter.

2nd Peter 3:10-14~"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."

This will be the lake of fire as prophesied by John the Baptist, where the wicked shall be burned up and destroyed, or perish as Jesus taught.

2nd Thessalonians 1:7-9~"And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."
 
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This is a parable, and can easily be proven~Jesus spoke this based upon those seeking their riches NOW in this world.

A good article on this portion of the scriptures. https://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/lazarus.html

While I may not necessarily agree with everything another person teaches, when they have truth overall on a subject, then I can accept it and be thankful for it, and rejoice in the truth being preached.

Philippians 1:16-18~"The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."
That's all well and good. but I'm sure whether it's a Parable or not Jesus wasn't just making up fiction. There had to be truth behind it. I'm sure it's a good link you provided and I'll take a look at it later but I don't have time right now thanks for sharing it.
 
There is no place at the moment called hellfire.
This is a parable, and can easily be proven~Jesus spoke this based upon those seeking their riches NOW in this world.

A good article on this portion of the scriptures. https://www.mountainretreatorg.net/bible/lazarus.html

While I may not necessarily agree with everything another person teaches, when they have truth overall on a subject, then I can accept it and be thankful for it, and rejoice in the truth being preached.

Philippians 1:16-18~"The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice."
The standard way of dismissing the truth of this passage is to call it a parable. But check Luke 16 carefully... You will find that there is absolutely no reference to the word parable in the chapter!
 
There is no place at the moment called hellfire.

Jesus only used the phrase hell fire once. mentioned in two places~ in the Mark 9:47 and....

Matthew 18:9​


“And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.”

He used hell once adding fire in the same sentence

Mark 9:45​


“And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:”

Of course the scriptures speaks of the lake of fire where the scriptures speaks of the baptism of fire where the wicked shall be destroyed, and the smoke of their destruction shall rise for ever and ever. (Revelation 14:11) which only proves that their destruction cannot ever change, it is eternal destruction

Matthew 3:7-12~"But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Here we see John the Baptist warning the Pharisees and Sadducees concerning being baptized WITH FIRE, unquenchable fire,! Everlasting fire! That will destroyed (burn up) the wicked, or cause them to PERISH, just as Jesus' taught more than once. John 3:16; Luke 13:3, etc.

At the moment the righteous, when they die are with Jesus Christ, since they have eternal life, the wicked are not so, they are in hell, or the grave (we can come back and prove that hell is used in different senses in the scriptures, ONLY when fire is connected to it does it have reference to the lake of fire, where the wicked shall be destroyed forever) waiting for the resurrection on the last day, where they shall be raised to stand before God, to be judged and then cast into the lake of fire, which will be this earth when it is destroyed by fervent heat as prophesied by the Prophets and by Peter.

2nd Peter 3:10-14~"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."

This will be the lake of fire as prophesied by John the Baptist, where the wicked shall be burned up and destroyed, or perish as Jesus taught.

2nd Thessalonians 1:7-9~"And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day."
In Matt. 25:41 Jesus referred to hell as “everlasting fire”.

Rev. 14:11 says “And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night...”

When a person goes to hell, all hope is gone. Forever! This is why Jesus said, “For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?” (Mark 8:36).
 
Unsaved people go to hell when they die.

They stay in hell until the Great White Throne Judgment. After the Great White Throne Judgment the unsaved, along with hell itself, are cast into the lake of fire.

For all practical purposes, the lake of fire becomes hell. This is where the unsaved spend eternity.

It is the madhouse of the universe.

There will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth.

The unsaved will burn, but they will not burn up.

Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 
Unsaved people go to hell when they die.

They stay in hell until the Great White Throne Judgment. After the Great White Throne Judgment the unsaved, along with hell itself, are cast into the lake of fire.
So. are you telling me, that Cain has been in "your" hellfire since the beginning, and is to be taken out of hellfire to be judged and then cast into the lake of fire with that lake of fire having no end after being judged. If you beleive this, then you have lost your ability to reason/using sane logic within the scriptures in order to come unot the knowledge of the truth~no pun intended, other than to get you thinking rationally.

First, let's look at Matthew 7:22,23~"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Did your notice or even care to consider, that none of the many even mentioned having already suffered for x amount of years, all they mentioned was their supposedly good deeds they thought had done in the name of Jesus. This would have been a perfect time to mentioned to the Lord concerning having already suffered for their sins, yet not a single word is mentioned about a hellfire of continuously torments.

The wicked will for sure be raised to go before the Lord to be judged for their sins, and then will suffered to consequences of serving sin which is lake of fire that the scriptures calls the second death!

Let me ask you this question: Did Jesus Christ suffered for the sins of his people? What was the payment for our sins? DEATH! Not suffering world without end, but he was put to DEATH! Since death had no power over him because of his sinless life, he was raised from the dead by the power of God. This is covered above in more detail.

One more through while on this subject~he that hath part in the first resurrection (which is spiritual in nature and happens when one is born of the Spirit of God) the second death has no power over those who have been born again.

Revelation 20:6​


“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

John 5:25​


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
 
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It is extremely important to preach the whole counsel of God which includes eternal damnation for those who reject it. If we are convinced that people eternally die without the gospel, we must tell them so. The unpalatable nature of eternal hell has led many people who profess belief in Christ to reject what Christ himself taught about hell.

His winnowing fan (shovel, fork) is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear out and clean His threshing floor and gather and store His wheat in His barn, but the chaff He will burn up with fire that cannot be put out.
Matthew 3:12

And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).
Matthew 10:28

But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in and acknowledge and cleave to Me to stumble and sin [that is, who entices him or hinders him in right conduct or thought], it would be better (more expedient and profitable or advantageous) for him to have a great millstone fastened around his neck and to be sunk in the depth of the sea.
7 Woe to the world for such temptations to sin and influences to do wrong! It is necessary that temptations come, but woe to the person on whose account or by whom the temptation comes!
8 And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble and sin, cut it off and throw it away from you; it is better (more profitable and wholesome) for you to enter life maimed or lame than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into everlasting fire.
9 And if your eye causes you to stumble and sin, pluck it out and throw it away from you; it is better (more profitable and wholesome) for you to enter life with only one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the hell (Gehenna) of fire.
Matthew 18:6–9


Then He will say to those at His left hand, Begone from Me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels!
42 For I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome Me and entertain Me, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me with help and ministering care.
44 Then they also [in their turn] will answer, Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?
45 And He will reply to them, Solemnly I declare to you, in so far as you failed to do it for the least [in the estimation of men] of these, you failed to do it for Me.
46 Then they will go away into eternal punishment, but those who are just and upright and in right standing with God into eternal life.
Matthew 25:41–46

42 And whoever causes one of these little ones (these believers) who acknowledge and cleave to Me to stumble and sin, it would be better (more profitable and wholesome) for him if a [huge] millstone were hung about his neck, and he were thrown into the sea.
43 And if your hand puts a stumbling block before you and causes you to sin, cut it off! It is more profitable and wholesome for you to go into life [that is really worthwhile] maimed than with two hands to go to hell (Gehenna), into the fire that cannot be put out.
45 And if your foot is a cause of stumbling and sin to you, cut it off! It is more profitable and wholesome for you to enter into life [that is really worthwhile] crippled than, having two feet, to be cast into hell (Gehenna).
47 And if your eye causes you to stumble and sin, pluck it out! It is more profitable and wholesome for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell (Gehenna),
48 Where their worm [which preys on the inhabitants and is a symbol of the wounds inflicted on the man himself by his sins] does not die, and the fire is not put out.
Mark 9:42–48

And in Hades (the realm of the dead), being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried out and said, Father Abraham, have pity and mercy on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.
Luke 16:23–24

And he who believes in (has faith in, clings to, relies on) the Son has (now possesses) eternal life. But whoever disobeys (is unbelieving toward, refuses to trust in, disregards, is not subject to) the Son will never see (experience) life, but [instead] the wrath of God abides on him. [God’s displeasure remains on him; His indignation hangs over him continually.]
John 3:36
 
His winnowing fan (shovel, fork) is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear out and clean His threshing floor and gather and store His wheat in His barn, but the chaff He will burn up with fire that cannot be put out. Matthew 3:12
So, he burns up with fire the chaff~what does this mean to you? To me, it means they shall perish, not continually living and suffering world without end. Just as Jesus taught.

John 3:16​


“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

The wicked do not have everlasting life, they will be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death!

Revelation 20:14​


“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.” Never to live any longer!

All those who experienced the first death, which was spiritual separation from God in the first Adam~losing God's image, and never experienced the first resurrection, (born again) and died in that state and were put into a grave, or whatever the case may have been, will be cast into the lake of fire and perish therein...... death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

It is extremely important to preach the whole counsel of God
Agreed~both sides have scriptures that need to be honestly address before one can honestly say, we have in all good conscience preach faithfully God's truths.
 
So, he burns up with fire the chaff~what does this mean to you? To me, it means they shall perish, not continually living and suffering world without end. Just as Jesus taught.

John 3:16​


“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

The wicked do not have everlasting life, they will be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death!

Revelation 20:14​


“And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.” Never to live any longer!

All those who experienced the first death, which was spiritual separation from God in the first Adam~losing God's image, and never experienced the first resurrection, (born again) and died in that state and were put into a grave, or whatever the case may have been, will be cast into the lake of fire and perish therein...... death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.


Agreed~both sides have scriptures that need to be honestly address before one can honestly say, we have in all good conscience preach faithfully God's truths.
Well I can definitely respect your reply. And I'll remember that next time I read any of your posts.
 
So. are you telling me, that Cain has been in "your" hellfire since the beginning, and is to be taken out of hellfire to be judged and then cast into the lake of fire with that lake of fire having no end after being judged. If you beleive this, then you have lost your ability to reason/using sane logic within the scriptures in order to come unot the knowledge of the truth~no pun intended, other than to get you thinking rationally.

First, let's look at Matthew 7:22,23~"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Did your notice or even care to consider, that none of the many even mentioned having already suffered for x amount of years, all they mentioned was their supposedly good deeds they thought had done in the name of Jesus. This would have been a perfect time to mentioned to the Lord concerning having already suffered for their sins, yet not a single word is mentioned about a hellfire of continuously torments.

The wicked will for sure be raised to go before the Lord to be judged for their sins, and then will suffered to consequences of serving sin which is lake of fire that the scriptures calls the second death!

Let me ask you this question: Did Jesus Christ suffered for the sins of his people? What was the payment for our sins? DEATH! Not suffering world without end, but he was put to DEATH! Since death had no power over him because of his sinless life, he was raised from the dead by the power of God. This is covered above in more detail.

One more through while on this subject~he that hath part in the first resurrection (which is spiritual in nature and happens when one is born of the Spirit of God) the second death has no power over those who have been born again.

Revelation 20:6​


“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

John 5:25​


“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
Now why would I tell you anything obviously you know it all. Including my mental state. What a guy.
 
Now why would I tell you anything obviously you know it all. Including my mental state. What a guy.
Don't sweat it I gave up my ability to reason/using sane logic Long time ago. Who needs it we've got the internet. And all that rational thinking stuff only gets you into trouble.

When I'm dealing with people that make derogatory remarks I just tell myself that there's a village somewhere missing their idiot. Then I checked to see if there's a reward out for them.
 
Let us consider this subject, proofs for this doctrine and proofs against this doctrine. (I first put this together back in 12-2021 for some friends, so I have it saved)

Many teach there is a literal burning hellfire now where the wicked go at the death of their bodies. You would think such people who believe this doctrine would have many scriptures supporting them, and it would be easy to defend this doctrine of endless suffering for the wicked. The majority of professing Christians I believe hold to this doctrine, just as I once did ~ they were taught this doctrine when they first came to Christ, and I just assumed it was so, only later I had trouble finding any support for such a doctrine.

Actually, it was taught as one of the cardinal truths by which you measure a person's faith.

Let me get right to this study~by giving many infallible proofs that there is not to be a punishment after this Life, never to end, other than to be cast into the lake of fire, which the Holy Spirit tells us IS the SECOND DEATH.

1. The Scriptures hold forth no such thing, as will be shown; we ought not to presume above that which is written; which many do~ revealed things belong to us.

It will soon be evident the NT and OT are silent about such as place as a literal burning hellfire, now and will be hereafter for eternity according to many folks faith.

2. The doctrine of a punishment never to end is contrary to the word of God, because it maintains that the wicked shall have eternal life. If man was to live forever, why was the flaming sword set to keep the way of the tree of life? Genesis. 3:24~ Lest he put forth his hand and take of the tree of life, and live forever. No eternal life came by the first Adam: eternal life came by Jesus Christ, who is the tree of life, eternal life promised and given by Jesus Christ: Eternal life by Jesus Christ, Romans 5:21; and, he that eateth of this bread shall live forever, John 6:58. Because I live, ye shall live also, John 14:19. God sent his Son, that we might live through him, 1st John 4:9. Only believers have eternal life: he that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, John 3:36. Whosoever believeth shall not perish, but have everlasting life, John 3:14-15. I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, John 10:28. The wicked abide not forever, 1st John 2:17. If ye live after the flesh ye shall die, Romans 8:13. Him will God destroy, 1st Corinthians 3:17. The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, 1st Corinthians 1:18; 2nd Thess 2:10. Utterly perish, 2nd Peter 2:12; Luke 13:3. To their own destruction, 2nd Peter 3:16. Abideth in death, Romans 6:21,23; 1st John 3:14. They shall be destroyed forever, Psalm 92:7.

If they perish and not have eternal life, then they cannot live forever. God said, if thou eatest, thou shalt surely die, Genesis 2:17; but the serpent said, ye shall not die, Genesis 3:4. So the serpent, which is the devil, hath taught men to say as the serpent said, Now they have eaten they shall not die, but shall live forever, and never die; which is to say, God is the liar, and that which the devil said is truth. The word saith, him will God destroy, Matthew 21:41; 1st Corinthians 3:17; 6:13. They shall be destroyed, 2nd Peter 2:12. Swift destruction, their end is destruction, 2nd Peter 2:1. Their opinion saith, they shall never be destroyed, die, nor end, which is no destruction. The word saith, The last enemy is death, 1st Corinthians 15:26. Their opinion saith, that is not the last; there is one after it, which is much worse, and will never end. It saith, God's anger is forever, he will never turn from it: contrary to Jeremiah 3:12; Psalm 50:5; 89:5; 78:38. False prophets said...... they shall suffer so long as God is God; if so, then they have eternal life, (though in misery,) whereas the Scripture doth not declare eternal life to be for all men, John 6:45-47. Promised to us eternal life, 1st John 2:17,25. I give unto them eternal life, to as many as thou hast given me, John 17:2-3. In hope of eternal life, Titus 1:2. As many as were ordained to eternal life believed, Acts 13:48. They that have done good unto the resurrection of life, John 5:29. If it be granted that the wicked have not eternal life, as hath been proved, it will follow that they cannot suffer forever, so long as God is God; and therefore all their building of punishment never to end falls: grant the first, and the latter must needs to follow.

If Adam had not sinned, he should have died; as appears from the following considerations~

He had, in his creation, a natural body, 1st Corinthians 15:44: that which is natural is not eternal, ver. 46, he was of the earth, earthly, ver. 47-48, therefore mortal and corruptible, ver. 53-54.

Man in his first being was corporal and visible to be seen; things seen are not eternal. Some believe if Adam had stood, he could not have conveyed to us a body immortal, if God had given Adam an immortal and unchangeable nature, he had created a god, and not a man. Augustine, in his Book of Confessions, saith, because the Lord created man of nothing, therefore he left in man a possibility to return to nothing, if he obeyed not the will of his Maker.

Just getting started~RB
Hebrew-Sheol= Greek-Hades, both translate the grave.
Adam never would have died if he didn't sin. He lived to over 900 years old. There was a tree of life in the Garden of Eden, taken away from mortals now.
 
' ... He began to say unto His disciples first of all,
Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.'

(Luke 12:1)

Hello there, :)

The middle English word, chosen by the translators for the words, Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartarus, is 'hell', the root meaning of which is 'to hide away'. It refers to 'the grave', or 'the place of the dead'. Also the testimony of Scripture is that there is no consciousness in death, so the story that the Lord used to show the hypocrisy of Pharisaic traditional teaching, namely that of 'The rich man and Lazarus', is not intended to be considered as teaching regarding the state of the dead.

* Please remember the words of our Lord regarding that same teachings:-

'Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware
of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.'

(Mat 16:6)

'Then understood they how that He bade them not
beware of the leaven of bread,
but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.'

(Mat 16:12)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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The bible is very clear that there is eternal tormentfor the wicked. They will have a conscious existence in the afterlife.

Mark 9:42-48
42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

"'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched
.'

Matthew 8:11-13
11 "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 13:41-43
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matthew 13:49-50
49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13-14
"Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 24:48-51
48 "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:29-30
29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



2 Peter 2:1-9
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment,while continuing their punishment.


Jude 4-7, 12-13

4 For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home — these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of thosewho suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

12 These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm — shepherds who feed only themselves. They are clouds without rain, blown along by the wind; autumn trees, without fruit and uprooted — twice dead. 13 They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.



Revelation 21:8

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars — their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Revelation 19:20-21
20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

Revelation 20:10
10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:12-15
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into The lake of fireis the second death. 15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Scripture uses these terms and phrases as synonyms:

Unquenchable fire
Fiery hell
Black darkness
Outer darkness
Furnace of fire
Fire and brimstone
The smoke of their torment
The lake of fire which burns with brimstone
Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched
The eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

All of the above carry the same meaning and consequences for the wicked.

hope this helps !!!
 
Ref: reply #55

Subject Heading:- Is there a present burning hell where departed souls of the wicked are sent?

Hello @civic,

With respect all of these references refer to end time judgement and the punishment associated with it, They do not justify the traditional view of Hell, and eternal conscious punishment, as depicted in the Subject Heading.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Subject Heading:- Is there a present burning hell where departed souls of the wicked are sent?

Hello @civic,

With respect all of these references refer to end time judgement and the punishment associated with it, They do not justify the traditional view of Hell, and eternal conscious punishment, as depicted in the Subject Heading.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
I'm ok with us agreeing to disagree as the saying goes. This is a hill I'm not willing to die on like I'm with the gospel, Trinity, Deity of Christ, Resurrection to name a few. :)
 
Subject Heading:- Is there a present burning hell where departed souls of the wicked are sent?
I'm ok with us agreeing to disagree as the saying goes. This is a hill I'm not willing to die on like I'm with the gospel, Trinity, Deity of Christ, Resurrection to name a few. :)
Hi @civic, :)

I value your fellowship too much to fall out with you: but would willingly lose you to truth, if you felt it necessary. This subject, because it has been used and abused by both the secular and believing community for so many centuries to the detriment of truth, needs to be given the same attention as those that you have listed. The Lord did not use the word 'Beware' without reason, in relation to Pharisaic doctrine: As the advancement and insidious nature of this questionable subject has proved by time: It truly has the characteristic of 'Leaven', doesn't it? So please promote this to the level of those precious truths listed, so that it gets the same scrutiny, and same defence.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Subject Heading:- Is there a present burning hell where departed souls of the wicked are sent?

Hi @civic, :)

I value your fellowship too much to fall out with you: but would willingly lose you to truth, if you felt it necessary. This subject, because it has been used and abused by both the secular and believing community for so many centuries to the detriment of truth, needs to be given the same attention as those that you have listed. The Lord did not use the word 'Beware' without reason, in relation to Pharisaic doctrine: As the advancement and insidious nature of this questionable subject has proved by time: It truly has the characteristic of 'Leaven', doesn't it? So please promote this to the level of those precious truths listed, so that it gets the same scrutiny, and same defence.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
I can defend my position of eternal conscious torment for unbelievers just like I can eternal life/bliss for believers. I just don't choose to divide over it.
 
these are the groups.

lake of fire --
- the fallen angels
- the sons of ammon (esau - corrupt souls who
are not souls who came from God)
- demonic entities
- souls who actively give allegiance to the previous
listed (probably includes some end time pastors
misleading sheep on purpose, hopefully it is very
very few souls who do this)

tribulation --
most of jacob (as the sheep misled by modern
christianity) suffer and die during trib
..when the sun goes dark realizing
they were left behind

meeting Christ on the clouds --
a remnant do not die
but are restored in their glorified body
lost after the fall and meet Christ on the clouds
and rebuild paradise with Christ
and return with Him to this reality
during tribulation to help left behind jacob
(who is later saved from here)

others --
- left behind jacob goes to paradise,
after his death, receives his glorified body
- OT saints restored to glorified body, go to paradise
- NT and early church, restored, paradise
 
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