Is there a present burning hell where departed souls of the wicked are sent?

[Red Baker]

Ergo: The time for people to be thinking about the afterlife is not when they get
there, but before they get there.

There is no such place as a literal burning hellfire at the moment. When a person dies in their sins, they go back to where they came from, dust, until the resurrection, and then they will be raised to be judge, and then cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death where they shall perish~according to John 3:16 and many other scriptures.

● Luke 16:26 . . Between us and you a great divide has been fixed. Those who
would go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.

Is a parable and can easily be proven to be such~besides Jesus spoke Luke 16:19-31 based upon the whole context of Luke 16 especially so to the Pharisees who were a covetous sect of religious zealots after man's commandments, and not God's. Read Luke 16 1-13, and then verse 14, and after that Jesus spoke a parable that folks totally abuse to teach a doctrine that is not taught no where else in the scriptures.

The present burning hell Is only on simmer. The flame doesn't get turned up to high until all the wicked are in there.

Really? Please give me just one scripture so I can read what you are saying~pretty sure you cannot find one. A literal burning hellfire at the present is nothing more than a RCC doctrine from a money making machine they had back before the reformation, called purgatory.

There will be a lake of fire, which is nothing more when this present earth shall be destroyed by fire according to Peter~2nd Peter 3~ when God shall destroyed both this present heaven, and earth, along with all the wicked that have ever lived in this earth, whose heart was in this world ~ they both shall perish after the Great White Throne Judgment.

 

[Alive]

Really? Please give me just one scripture so I can read what you are saying~pretty sure you cannot find one. A literal burning hellfire at the present is nothing more than a RCC doctrine from a money making machine they had back before the reformation, called purgatory.

There will be a lake of fire, which is nothing more when this present earth shall be destroyed by fire according to Peter~2nd Peter 3~ when God shall destroyed both this present heaven, and earth, along with all the wicked that have ever lived in this earth, whose heart was in this world ~ they both shall perish after the Great White Throne Judgment.

I may not have a scripture but I do have access to the Johnny Cash video "The ring of fire". Yeah buddy. and the flame got higher

Johnny Cash - Ring of Fire (Live In Las Vegas, 1979) - YouTube

 

[Complete]

.
● Luke 16:26 . . Between us and you a great divide has been fixed. Those who
would go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.

Luke portrays only a small portion of the geography where Abraham and the rich
man conversed; suggesting that the two locations where the men stood are
peninsulas.

But I rather suspect that the rims of the divide are straight and parallel like the
banks of a canal; plus extending sufficient distance in either direction to
accommodate hundreds, maybe even thousands, of friends and relatives seeking
to connect with their loved ones and BFF over on the opposite side.

I hope that's still the situation because I dearly want to visit my mom and kid
brother before they're transferred to the lake of fire depicted by Rev 20:11-15
where it's very possible I may never be allowed see them again.

Hello @Olde Tymer,

The story of the rich man and Lazarus, was told by the Lord as a satire in which Pharisaic teaching and it's hypocrisy could be seen for what it is, a denial of the testimony of Scripture as it stands written. Hell is the grave the place of the dead: It is a place of silence, in which there is no consciousness: but the Pharisees believed that it was possible for the dead to communicate with the living. They perpetuated Satan's lie, spoken in Eden, 'Ye shall not surely die'. The words 'Abraham's Bosom' was brought back from Israel's exile in Babylon, and is not the testimony of Scripture.

Concerning Pharisaic teaching the Lord Himself said the word, 'Beware': A word not to be ignored. Yet, man has not heeded the warning and continue to make themselves subject to this lie of Satan, preaching it, and defending it in the face of what is written in denial of it in the word of God itself!!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Olde Tymer]

.
The Watchtower Society claims Luke 16:19-31 is a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable theory
has some fatal flaws,

For one: whenever Jesus told a parable, he eventually took his disciple aside and
explained its meaning. (Mark 4:34) I would've liked to been on hand when Jesus
expounded his defense for quoting Abraham saying things that the patriarch didn't
really say; which in my judicious estimation is especially despicable due to the fact
that Abraham is one of God's buddies. (Isa 41:8)

All I'm saying is: if we can't trust Jesus to tell the truth about his Father's friends,
then how are we supposed to trust him to tell the truth about one of us?

This is a serious question because Jesus is the one and only mediator in Heaven
between God and Man (1Tim 2:5) Well; I for one don't want someone unfaithful to
me speaking on my behalf before the throne of God.

One other point: nothing Jesus taught originated with him. He was, in fact, quite
micro managed.

● John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which
I have heard of Him.

● John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the
Father taught me.

● John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He
gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

● John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent
me.

● John 3:34-35 . .He is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's spirit is upon
him without measure or limit.

● Heb 1:1-2 . . In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at
many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His
son

I cannot imagine someone as famous for honesty and integrity as God directing His
own son to tell us things about people that aren't true; especially about His friends.

● John 17:3 . . You . . the only truthful God

● Heb 6:18 . . it is impossible for God to lie

If God really is as reliable as the Bible presents Him; then I should think it
completely safe to assume that all of Jesus' parables, every one of them, from the
shortest to the longest, are 100% true stories taken from real life.

As for Abraham; he was a prophet, i.e. an inspired man (Gen 20:7). As such, he
would be privy to information that would normally be unavailable to the average
rank and file pew warmer. Abraham was also a teacher/mentor. (Gen 18:19)

So then, I think it's fairly safe to assume the information that Abraham passed on
to the rich man came to Abraham via inspiration; which, if so, means that our
reaction to his remarks should be very different than the rich man's. The man with
five brothers brushed aside what Abraham told him; but we, I should hope, are wiser
than that impious dunce because we know that a prophet's teachings channel God's
thoughts.

One of my favorite lines from the movie "Titanic" is when Mr. Ismay protests that
the ship can't sink; and Mr. Andrews responds: She's made of iron, sir! I assure
you, she can . . . and she will. It is a mathematical certainty.

There are folks at large all across the internet, and around the globe, sincerely
believing that Hell isn't a place of conscious suffering. They, like Mr. Ismay, will be
utterly stunned and bewildered to the limits of human astonishment to discover it's
exactly that.
_

 

[Complete]

.
The Watchtower Society claims Luke 16:19-31 is a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable theory
has some fatal flaws,

Hello @Olde Tymer,

I am not familiar with the claims of the Watchtower Society, neither am I interested in their teaching.

The testimony of Scripture itself exposes the content of the story being told by the Lord in Luke 16:19-31, and that alone is sufficient to make the Pharisees very conscious that it was their teaching that the Lord was targeting in the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

Yes, our Lord spoke the words of His Father, and not His own, which is a very good reason to understand what was being said and why, and not allow tradition to overshadow the truth. The testimony of the rest of the written word concerning the state of the dead is it's judge, and not human reasoning.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Red Baker]

One of my favorite lines from the movie "Titanic" is when Mr. Ismay protests that
the ship can't sink; and Mr. Andrews responds: She's made of iron, sir! I assure
you, she can . . . and she will. It is a mathematical certainty.

There are folks at large all across the internet, and around the globe, sincerely
believing that Hell isn't a place of conscious suffering. They, like Mr. Ismay, will be
utterly stunned and bewildered to the limits of human astonishment to discover it's
exactly that.

Your analogy doesn't work with Luke 16:19-31~no one is saying that God cannot create such a place, or impossible for there be such a place~which God's power is not limited, of course he can, and there could be such a place.

But, what you, or, any other man, including myself may think he can and has done must be tested with the scriptures teaching on this subject. When we ponder "the timeline order" of the unbeliever's death, the time of his judgment, and the final ruling on such judgment, one must confess by the testimony of the word of God that judgment has not yet taken place and the verdict has not been carried out, even though both are certain to be done in God's timing not when man thinks it is happening and how such will be forthcoming for all who died in their sins.

Luke 16:23

• "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

The dead cannot lift up their eyes in the grave, nor can they see afar off, nor can they speak, because it is explicitly declared of God that there is no device (reasoning or thinking), there is no knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave, nor do the wicked have life after death, only those men who died having their sins forgiven, have life after death, not so with the wicked.

Ecclesiastes 9:10

• "Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

Psalms 115:17

• "The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence."

There is no device (reasoning or devising), there is no knowledge, nor wisdom in the grave, there is only the state of unconscious silence. In fact, Ecclesiastes 9:10 describes this state of unconsciousness perfectly! So we understand that when the Lord describes how in hell [hades, the grave] the rich man lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, it in no way can be a literal narrative, but another proof that this story is a parable. The unsaved who die cannot lift up their eyes, see, hear, know, reason, or speak. The Lord is showing in this parable that suffering and torment await those who die, are are not the true seed of Abraham.

There will be a resurrection of both the just and unjust, and then, and not until then will the unjust be judged andsetence to the lake of fire, whic is the second and final death where they shall perish.

The wages of sin is what? You and others think eternal torments as long as God is God. But the word of God said that the wages of sin is DEATH, both physical, spiritual and finally the second death in the lake of fire.

Let me ask you and all who read this a question~did Jesus paid in full for our sins? What payment did he render for us? DEATH ~ not eternal suffering world without end! Yet the grave had no power over his sinless life and had to release him (and us in him), set him free. Death has power over all who died in their sins~they shall be cast alive in the lake of fire for their final verdict and judgement. All the fire trucks in the world would serve no purpose for relief in that day that's coming for all who died in their sins. Enough for now.

 

[Olde Tymer]

.
FAQ: Why do Solomon's remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes conflict with some of
Christ's teachings in the New Testament?

REPLY: According to 2Tim 3:16, Solomon was inspired to write Ecclesiastes, but the
catch is: his comments essentially represent a thinking man's world view-- a
philosophy of life "under the sun" --rather than a book of revelation.

In other words: Solomon's observations are restricted to the scope of empirical
evidence and human experience, i.e. a perception of reality moderated by what we
can see for ourselves going on around us in the natural rather than the
supernatural-- which is at least one of the reasons why Ecclesiastes appeals to
cultists, atheists, and agnostics, et al.

Solomon's world view is punctuated with pessimism; which is basically a mindset
inclined to dwell on the negative in human experience rather than the positive. For
example:

You only go around once, so do it with all the gusto you can get!

That was a Schlitz beer slogan some years ago. It's worldly wisdom thru and thru
rather than Christ's. Compare it to a couple of Solomon's remarks:

● Ecc 9:5 . . The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they
are conscious of nothing at all.

● Ecc 9:10 . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is
no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in sheol, the place to which you
are going.

That wisdom reflects Schlitz beer wisdom, viz: it's earthly wisdom rather than the
wisdom that comes from above.

Solomon was a very wise man, in point of fact: the brightest intellectual of his day.
But he didn't know everything there is to know, nor had he seen everything there is
to see, nor been everywhere there is to go, viz: Solomon's knowledge was incomplete,
whereas Christ's knowledge is unlimited.

● Col 2:3 . . Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of
knowledge.

And as his alter ego the Word per John 1:1-3, Christ has seen everything there is to
see, and been everywhere there is to go.

So then, it only stands to reason that Christ would have more to tell about the
afterlife than Solomon, whereas Solomon didn't see anything beyond the grave
when he penned Ecclesiastes.

A good rule of thumb to apply when the teachings of Solomon and Jesus contradict
each other, is to keep in mind that Jesus' thoughts trump Solomon's.

● Matt 12:42 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment with this
generation and will condemn it; because she came from the ends of the earth to
hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look! something more than Solomon is here.

● John 3:31 . . He that comes from above is over all others.

And Jesus comes highly recommended too.

● Matt 17:5 . . This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him.

So then, when encountering remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes that are out of step
with Jesus' teachings in the New Testament; my unsolicited spiritual counseling is
to marginalize Solomon's view of the afterlife and go with the wisdom of "my Son".

● John 8:12 . . I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no means
walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.
_

 

[Complete]

Hello @Olde Tymer,

I am sorry that you feel the need to place me on, 'Ignore', for I have no wish to be offensive, and will therefore not participate further in this thread.

May the love of God in Christ Jesus
fill you with all joy in believing.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Grace ambassador]

If God really is as reliable as the Bible presents Him; then I should think it
completely safe to assume that all of Jesus' parables, every one of them, from the
shortest to the longest, are 100% true stories taken from real life.

Amen! And the Truth of Luke 16:19-31 Is Absolutely Harmonious With All
the other Relevant Scriptures about the "departure of the soul":

Separation of the soul and body!

Amen.

 

[Keiw1]

For now~Whose name shall be called those names that are mentioned in Isaiah 9:6?

The child that is born, the Son that is given! Which can only refer to ONE PERSON~Jesus Christ, the Son of God, making him equal to God. Enough said. Your lying false cult rejects Jesus being God manifest in the flesh.

Btw, what about all those scriptures above provided to you to either refute, or, agree with?

Learn how to carry on a debate, you have a long ways to go, most likely will never get there.

John 20:17-Jesus has a God like we do.. Fact= God does not have a God.
Yes Jesus' NAME will be called those things, not Jesus' being.

 

[Red Baker]

John 20:17-Jesus has a God like we do..

You finally said a truth my accident, while rejecting a all important truth, rightfully so, makes all antichrist who rejects Jesus' deity of being the Mighty God.

Yes, Jesus as the Son of man, had a God that he trusted in and loved, not as a private person, but, as Surety for all of God's elect. Yet, this does not negate the truth that Jesus was indeed Immanuel living in human flesh!

Fact= God does not have a God.

Agreed, that's why Jesus in his humanity will submit himself to God, after all things are finished, that God may be all in all.

1st Corinthians 15:28

“And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

You are not revealing anything that we cannot perfect what your false cult teaches against, especially so concerning our Lord's deity.

Yes Jesus' NAME will be called those things, not Jesus' being.

There you go again~If someone is called by those titles/names, then they are those titles/names in truth, or else, it would be wicked to ascribe to anyone titles/names which only can be true of God himself. This is not too deep to understand, yet, if one is blinded to the truth, then it is impossible for them to see. Strong delusions are on the rampant in our days and you and your cult are a perfect example of this.

 

[Red Baker]

Amen! And the Truth of Luke 16:19-31 Is Absolutely Harmonious With All
the other Relevant Scriptures about the "departure of the soul":

Separation of the soul and body!

Amen.

Prove what you are saying, give scriptures so they can be tested.

 

[Red Baker]

.
FAQ: Why do Solomon's remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes conflict with some of
Christ's teachings in the New Testament?

REPLY: According to 2Tim 3:16, Solomon was inspired to write Ecclesiastes, but the
catch is: his comments essentially represent a thinking man's world view-- a
philosophy of life "under the sun" --rather than a book of revelation.

In other words: Solomon's observations are restricted to the scope of empirical
evidence and human experience, i.e. a perception of reality moderated by what we
can see for ourselves going on around us in the natural rather than the
supernatural-- which is at least one of the reasons why Ecclesiastes appeals to
cultists, atheists, and agnostics, et al.

Solomon's world view is punctuated with pessimism; which is basically a mindset
inclined to dwell on the negative in human experience rather than the positive. For
example:

You only go around once, so do it with all the gusto you can get!

That was a Schlitz beer slogan some years ago. It's worldly wisdom thru and thru
rather than Christ's. Compare it to a couple of Solomon's remarks:

● Ecc 9:5 . . The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they
are conscious of nothing at all.

● Ecc 9:10 . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is
no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in sheol, the place to which you
are going.

That wisdom reflects Schlitz beer wisdom, viz: it's earthly wisdom rather than the
wisdom that comes from above.

Solomon was a very wise man, in point of fact: the brightest intellectual of his day.
But he didn't know everything there is to know, nor had he seen everything there is
to see, nor been everywhere there is to go, viz: Solomon's knowledge was incomplete,
whereas Christ's knowledge is unlimited.

● Col 2:3 . . Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of
knowledge.

And as his alter ego the Word per John 1:1-3, Christ has seen everything there is to
see, and been everywhere there is to go.

So then, it only stands to reason that Christ would have more to tell about the
afterlife than Solomon, whereas Solomon didn't see anything beyond the grave
when he penned Ecclesiastes.

A good rule of thumb to apply when the teachings of Solomon and Jesus contradict
each other, is to keep in mind that Jesus' thoughts trump Solomon's.

● Matt 12:42 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment with this
generation and will condemn it; because she came from the ends of the earth to
hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look! something more than Solomon is here.

● John 3:31 . . He that comes from above is over all others.

And Jesus comes highly recommended too.

● Matt 17:5 . . This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him.

So then, when encountering remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes that are out of step
with Jesus' teachings in the New Testament; my unsolicited spiritual counseling is
to marginalize Solomon's view of the afterlife and go with the wisdom of "my Son".

● John 8:12 . . I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no means
walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.
_

I'll be back to answer your post~but, I have other commitments first, maybe later today of this weekend for sure. I do not not want to rush through it, as I sometimes do.

 

[Olde Tymer]

.
● Ps 115:17-18 . .The dead do not praise The Lord, nor do any who go down into
silence.

The first "dead" in that verse are not yet deceased but might just as well be seeing
as how their attitude towards God lacks reverence.

"any who go down into silence" are the dead who've passed on. Well; they're no
different down below than when up here on the surface, i.e. they're still irreverent.

The wrong side of the netherworld is likely pretty noisy, but communication with
God is impossible. The Bible says to call upon God while He is near. Well, there
comes a time for the dead when God is too distant, i.e. He's permanently
estranged. That's a kind of silence that no one should take lightly.

● Matt 8:11-12 . . I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west,
and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be
weeping and gnashing of teeth.

"children of the kingdom" is very likely Abraham's Jewish posterity. Well; for sure,
not all of his people will be permitted citizenship in the kingdom predicted in the Old
Testament. According to Ezek 20:33-38 a number of them will be culled from the
herd and sent elsewhere.

Outer darkness is again spoken of in Matt 22:13 and Matt 25:30

It appears, from comparison of the available data, that "outer darkness" isn't a
location, rather, a state of mental anguish characterized by the deepest possible
feelings of grief associated with loss.

It's akin to the day that God announced to Moses' people they were going to have
to stay in that awful Sinai outback until they were dead. They missed their
opportunity to enter the land of milk and honey and there was no way to regain it.

The people must've been pretty upset over that; no doubt they had all been joyfully
looking forward to a new life over there; but God had made up His mind.

I've only experienced deep personal grief associated with irreversible loss but one
time; that was when my No.1 nephew passed away suddenly of natural causes at
the age of 51. I had held him in my arms upon returning home from three years in
the Army when he was only a couple of weeks old.

News of his passing has thus far been the only time in my 80+ years that I actually
clenched my teeth, sobbing out of control, and choking, while clinging to a handrail
in the front room to keep from losing my balance and falling to the floor. Matt 8:11-12
is likely speaking of a similar depth of grief, or possibly worse.
_

 

[Grace ambassador]

Separation of the soul and body!

Prove what you are saying, give scriptures so they can be tested.

Be glad to; here are the contents of my 'link':

man/woman/child = a tripartite being?:

"And the very God of Peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your​

Whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming​

of our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thessalonians 5:23; Comfort 2 Corinthians 1:3-4)​

A Divider/Discerner of the [ internal ] two :

"For The Word of God Is Quick, and Powerful, and Sharper Than any two-edged sword,​

Piercing Even To The Dividing Asunder Of soul And spirit, and of the joints and marrow,​

And Is A Discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)​

Death?:

"...the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26)​

1) When the body is dead, it becomes ignorant and hence
"knows not anything" (Ecc 9:5), "returning to dust" (Ecc 12:7):

2) "the spirit returns (from the body) back to God Who Gave it" (Ecc 12:7)

What about "the soul"? Some think it disappears into nothingness/annihilation?:
What Saith The Scriptures?:

3) "the soul departs" (Gen 35:16-19):

a) Jesus Clearly Taught unbelievers' souls go to the "place of torment, having vision, speech,
feeling, and remembering everything" (Luke 16:19-31) "across the great fixed gulf":

b) Believers (previously) went to "paradise (in the earth) = Abraham's bosom" - Confirmed:

b1) Jesus, Just Before His Death, Clearly Said [ to the repentant thief ] "Today
thou Shalt Be With Me In Paradise!" (Luke 23:43) - Confirmed by:

b2) "I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?
God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen:

OT living souls departed and "gathered Unto their own people!":

"And thou shalt go [ living soul that departs ] to thy fathers in peace;​

thou shalt be buried [dead body] in a good old age." (Genesis 15:15)​

"Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man,​

and full of years; and was gathered to his people. And his sons Isaac and​

Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son​

of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;" (Genesis 25:8-9)​

​

"And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people,​

being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him."​

(Genesis 35:29)​

Jacob (v 1):

"And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered Unto​

my people [living soul]: bury me with my fathers [ dead body ] in the cave​

that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite," (Genesis 49:29)​

Now critics will argue that the 'dead body' "buried with fathers" = "gathered
with their people," and 'the soul is extinguished into non-existence,' Correct?:

However, again: "What Saith The Scriptures?":

"And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his​

feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people."​

(Genesis 49:33):​

Thus, Immediately his "living soul departed to paradise in Abraham's bosom!" And,
his 'dead body' was buried Much Later (Genesis 50:1-13), Correct?

+ Further Confirmed By:

b3) The prophet Samuel's [ dead body ] was buried Nowhere Near his father Abraham's in
"the cave of Machpelah," Correct? So that Cannot be the critic's theory "gathered to his
fathers/people," right?

"And Samuel died; and all the Israelites were gathered together, and​

lamented him, and buried him in his house at Ramah." (1 Samuel 25:1)​

Further Confirmed by King Saul "disturbing 'Samuel's rest,' getting the
witch at Endor to call up Samuel from the dead" (1 Samuel 28:7-20)

Again, there is proposed the theory that this is a "demon [ one of the gods ]
'ascending out of the earth'" that "appeared to the witch and Saul"?

The witch "identified him as Samuel." Did she lie?

Now, we do admit it is possible demons might know this, from the past?:

"Because thou obeyedst not the voice of the LORD, nor executedst his fierce​

wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the LORD done this thing unto thee this day."​

(1 Samuel 28:18)​

But, Exactly how did God's Spirit Give demons the "gift of prophecy," to predict the future?:

"Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines:​

and to morrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the LORD also shall deliver the​

host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines." (1 Samuel 28:19)​

Thus falls the theory that demons were in Paradise, So "after Samuel went back to
resting In Paradise," the next day, Saul and Jonathon were killed in battle, [ And their
'souls' ] Departed to be "gathered Unto their people," with Samuel, "As Prophesied,"
Correct?

b4) In the future, according to God's Revelation to John, he saw:

"And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the [ living ] souls of them​

that were slain [ dead bodies ] for The Word of God, and for the testimony which they held"​

(Revelation 6:9) "...cried out with a loud voice...Given white robes..." (vs 10-11)​

How is that 'nothingness/annihilation [ no comfort ],' when these are "living and conscious," Correct?

And, In Addition To All of This Truth, Scriptures Get Even Better! = Very Comforting!!:

c) ...(But now), for believers, Under God's Grace!:

In Christ's Revelation Of The Mystery To Paul, He Teaches:

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die Is Gain!" (Philippians 1:21)​

+

"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to Depart { soul },​

And To Be With CHRIST; which Is Far Better!" (Philippians 1:23)​

+

"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who​

also hath given unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we are​

always Confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body,​

we are absent from The LORD: ( For we walk by faith, not by sight: )​

We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,​

and to be Present With The LORD!" (2 Corinthians 5:5-8) Where?:​

"...Paradise in The Third Heaven!..." (2Co 12:1-4) = Very Comforting Indeed,
Correct?:

Further Confirmed in Resurrection:

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning​

them [ souls ] which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which​

have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so​

them [ souls ] also which sleep in Jesus Will God Bring With Him."​

(1Th 4:13 AV)​

God does Not Bring 'nothingness' but, living souls With Him! Amen.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Bears repeating! Correct?:

"I AM The God of Abraham, and The God of Isaac, and The God of Jacob?
God Is not The God of the dead, but of the living." (Matthew 22:32) Amen.

-------------------------------------- =========
LORD Jesus, thanks So Much for All Of Your Comforting Words.
------------------------------------------------------------

Praise HIS Precious and Wonderful Name!

Amen.

 

[Olde Tymer]

.
According to Matt 10:28, the body and the soul are perishable. However; though
the body is perishable by any means, the soul is perishable only by divine means;
i.e. the deaths of body and soul aren't necessarily simultaneous, viz: the soul lives
on until such a time as God decides to give it either a thumb up or a thumb down.

This is interesting because if we can take Luke 16:19-31 to mean something real;
then we may safely assume souls are transferrable to an afterlife situation wherein
people retain some of their human characteristics. For example: Lazarus has a
finger, Abraham has a bosom, the rich man has a tongue; and all are sentient
beings, i.e. lucid & conscious.

NOTE: If there is such a thing as soul sleep I won't know it, here's why:

I've been under anesthesia once for appendicitis, twice for hernias, one for a scalp
lump, once for a kidney stone, twice for total knee replacements, once for a
colonoscopy, once for lung cancer, once for wisdom teeth, and twice for an
endoscopy.

In none of those procedures was I aware of the passage of time. The very moment
I went under was simultaneous with awakening. So if soul sleep is like that, I'll be
in paradise as if I went from here to there in less than a second of time on the
clock, i.e. instantaneously. The same can be said for folks on track for the wrong
side of the chasm separating Abraham from the rich man. (Luke 16:26)
_

 

[Keiw1]

You finally said a truth my accident, while rejecting a all important truth, rightfully so, makes all antichrist who rejects Jesus' deity of being the Mighty God.

Yes, Jesus as the Son of man, had a God that he trusted in and loved, not as a private person, but, as Surety for all of God's elect. Yet, this does not negate the truth that Jesus was indeed Immanuel living in human flesh!

Agreed, that's why Jesus in his humanity will submit himself to God, after all things are finished, that God may be all in all.

1st Corinthians 15:28

“And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

You are not revealing anything that we cannot perfect what your false cult teaches against, especially so concerning our Lord's deity.


There you go again~If someone is called by those titles/names, then they are those titles/names in truth, or else, it would be wicked to ascribe to anyone titles/names which only can be true of God himself. This is not too deep to understand, yet, if one is blinded to the truth, then it is impossible for them to see. Strong delusions are on the rampant in our days and you and your cult are a perfect example of this.

The darkness owns you because you won't believe Jesus.

 

[Olde Tymer]

.
● Luke 16:22-23 . . It came to pass that a rich man died, and was buried. And in Hades . . .

"Hades" is translated from the Greek word haides (hah'-dace) which, in the ancient
Hellenistic culture, was an afterlife facility where all the dead went-- the good dead as
well as the bad dead --regardless of age, race, sex, gender identity, political ideology,
and/or religious preference. Jesus spent some time in Hades prior to his crucified dead
body's resurrection. (Acts 2:22-32)

Hades is divided into sections to which the souls of the dead are assigned in accordance
with the quality of their past life's existence. The best section is called Paradise (Luke 23:42)
whereas the worst section is a deep abyss called Tartarus. (2Pet 2:4)

The Jews spent some time under the influence of Greek culture prior to the Romans taking
them over so it's no surprise they would pick up some of the Grecian's afterlife terminology.

● Luke 16:23-25 . . The rich man looked up and saw Abraham far away. So he called to
him: Father Abraham, have pity on me. But Abraham replied: Son, remember . . .

I should think that one of the negative aspects of perdition is memory. How people in
the afterlife retain their memories sans the brain cells they left behind with their corpse, I
don't know; but they do. Apparently God has some sort of file transfer protocol that
Silicon Valley has yet to discover.

The older one gets, the more memories they accumulate, and many of those memories
haunt us with terrible regret. Smart folks deal with their regrets by unifying with Christ,
but the dummies? No; their past will always be an albatross hung around their neck.
_

 

[Keiw1]

.
● Luke 16:22-23 . . It came to pass that a rich man died, and was buried. And in Hades . . .

"Hades" is translated from the Greek word haides (hah'-dace) which, in the ancient
Hellenistic culture, was an afterlife facility where all the dead went-- the good dead as
well as the bad dead --regardless of age, race, sex, gender identity, political ideology,
and/or religious preference. Jesus spent some time in Hades prior to his crucified dead
body's resurrection. (Acts 2:22-32)

Hades is divided into sections to which the souls of the dead are assigned in accordance
with the quality of their past life's existence. The best section is called Paradise (Luke 23:42)
whereas the worst section is a deep abyss called Tartarus. (2Pet 2:4)

The Jews spent some time under the influence of Greek culture prior to the Romans taking
them over so it's no surprise they would pick up some of the Grecian's afterlife terminology.

● Luke 16:23-25 . . The rich man looked up and saw Abraham far away. So he called to
him: Father Abraham, have pity on me. But Abraham replied: Son, remember . . .

I should think that one of the negative aspects of perdition is memory. How people in
the afterlife retain their memories sans the brain cells they left behind with their corpse, I
don't know; but they do. Apparently God has some sort of file transfer protocol that
Silicon Valley has yet to discover.

The older one gets, the more memories they accumulate, and many of those memories
haunt us with terrible regret. Smart folks deal with their regrets by unifying with Christ,
but the dummies? No; their past will always be an albatross hung around their neck.
_

Hades(Greek) is equivilent to Sheol=Hebrew--both translate-the grave. that is where the dead go to the grave.
There is 0 in Gods bible about hades having sections= false teachings of men.

 

[Complete]

Subject Heading:- Is there a present burning hell where departed souls of the wicked are sent?

No! For the Lord Jesus Christ when speaking of Hell (Gehenna) was referring to the fires of end-time judgment.

In Christ Jesus
our risen Saviour,
Lord and Head.
Chris