Greetings Rowan~While I agree that the majority of professing Christians do believe in a present literal burning hellfire where the wicked go at death~yet that does not make it so. Such teaching is the offshoot of the RCC doctrine of purgatory:I believe there is a Literal hell, And I would say the vast majority of Christians would agree. Here are a few verses from the Bible that seems to support that.
HELL
enough to go into the fiery hell. Mt 5:22
whole body to be thrown into hell. Mt 5:29
for your whole body to go into hell. Mt 5:30
destroy both soul and body in hell. Mt 10:28
eyes and be cast into the fiery hell. Mt 18:9
as much a son of hell as yourselves. Mt 23:15
you escape the sentence of hell? Mt 23:33
your two hands, to go into hell, Mk 9:43
your two feet, to be cast into hell, Mk 9:45
two eyes, to be cast into hell, Mk 9:47
has authority to cast into hell; Lk 12:5
our life, and is set on fire by hell. Jas 3:6
but cast them into hell and committed 2Pe 2:4
Questions about Hell: Is It a Literal Fire? Or Worse? - Explore the Bible
All of us can imagine the great horror of being immersed in a lake of hot flame forever. With that pain in mind, I think the Bible leads us to conclude that hell is even worse than that....www.biblestudytools.com
Just think for a moment (which is hard for those to do, who have been brainwashed by false religion) does it make any rational sense to send folks to a literal burning hellfire, and then take them out of that place of torment, to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment, only to cast them back again into the lake of fire to suffer as long as God is God?An intermediate state after death for expiatory purification. specifically : a place or state of punishment wherein according to Roman Catholic doctrine the souls of those who die in God's grace may make satisfaction for past sins and so become fit for heaven. 2. : a place or state of temporary suffering or misery.
There is no mentioning of them having already suffered for x amount of years, not a word~ Yet they did bring up some of their personal good works that they thought they had done in the name of Jesus Christ. If there is such a place as a present burning hellfire, then at the final judgment it would have been a perfect time for the wicked to say~Lord, have we not already suffered for x amount of years ~ yet not a word of that is mentioned, though they did mentioned some other things to plead with the Lord.
The lake of fire will be when this earth is destroyed by the fire of God and all things therein shall be burnt up and pass away including the wicked, whose hearts were consumed by lust for the things of this present world. The former world passed away with water, the next time all shall passed away with fire, which fire will be fervent heat, impossible to live through this~the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up!2nd Peter 3:10-14~"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless."
Are you the gentleman that is on GCF and go by the name~ NyawehNyoh? Pretty sure you are, and if so, then I have posted to you concerning Luke 16:19-31 there. If not the same , then I'll be happy to prove that Luke 16 is a parable given that goes perfectly with the context of~Luke 16:1-13.~
Luke 16:19-31 tells of three men in the afterlife. The story is alleged to be one of
several New Testament parables: which are stories variously regarded as fact
and/or fiction.
A problem with the fiction view is Abraham. He's an historical person; plus he's said
to be one of God's buddies. (Isa 41:8) Well; the story quotes Abraham a number
of times. It seems inappropriate to me that a Bible story would quote an important
historical figure saying things that he didn't really say.
The fiction view also alleges that the Greek word haides in verse 23 pertains
to the rich man's grave. Well; we can be reasonably certain that Abraham is dead
and buried (Gen 25:8-10) so I have to wonder how these two men's dead bodies
communicated with each other through solid ground from grave to grave.
Plus; dead bodies typically exhibit no mental activity; and have lost the use of their
five natural senses of taste, touch, sight, hearing, and smell. Yet in death, the rich
man appears fully sentient, viz: he is able to feel heat from the flames around him,
he is in misery due to dehydration, he is able to see across a chasm to where
Abraham is located, and he is said to experience anxiety relative to the possibility
of five brothers joining him in rather unpleasant circumstances.
The third man's name is given as Lazarus. It appears from the language and
grammar of the story that Lazarus' angelic transportation buried his corpse
alongside Abraham's corpse, i.e. he and Abraham appear to be sharing the same
grave. But the man was a diseased pauper in life so it's extremely doubtful his
remains were given any kind of a funeral at all but instead were likely incinerated
in a community landfill.
Ergo: the "grave" theory is untenable; it won't even hold up under the scrutiny of
common sense; let alone the stretch of one's imagination.
_
I'll be happy to prove that Luke 16 is a parable
Got to love Johnny, he's the best.
Thank you old timer~I enjoy most of your posts the dry humor, salted with wisdom.I am also confident that a free-thinking society deserves to hear both sides of a
controversy so that folks can make up their own minds which side to accept; if at all.
I May Disapprove of What You Say,
But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It
(Evelyn Beatrice Hall, 1906.)
MetaphoricallY? So much of Revelation is not literal. It has pictures that carry doctrinal meaning, but are couched in images that the Spirit has to explain. And while I would say there is one ultimate meaning of each written word/phrase thing in Revelation, most of it reads/feels/looks like layers of the same truth understood in ever deepening ways by Christians.A good question to ask? Where is the lake of fire? Anyone?
What is the source material for these 6-8 posts ?Let us consider this subject, proofs for this doctrine and proofs against this doctrine. (I first put this together back in 12-2021 for some friends, so I have it saved)
Many teach there is a literal burning hellfire now where the wicked go at the death of their bodies. You would think such people who believe this doctrine would have many scriptures supporting them, and it would be easy to defend this doctrine of endless suffering for the wicked. The majority of professing Christians I believe hold to this doctrine, just as I once did ~ they were taught this doctrine when they first came to Christ, and I just assumed it was so, only later I had trouble finding any support for such a doctrine.
Actually, it was taught as one of the cardinal truths by which you measure a person's faith.
Let me get right to this study~by giving many infallible proofs that there is not to be a punishment after this Life, never to end, other than to be cast into the lake of fire, which the Holy Spirit tells us IS the SECOND DEATH.
1. The Scriptures hold forth no such thing, as will be shown; we ought not to presume above that which is written; which many do~ revealed things belong to us.
It will soon be evident the NT and OT are silent about such as place as a literal burning hellfire, now and will be hereafter for eternity according to many folks faith.
2. The doctrine of a punishment never to end is contrary to the word of God, because it maintains that the wicked shall have eternal life. If man was to live forever, why was the flaming sword set to keep the way of the tree of life? Genesis. 3:24~ Lest he put forth his hand and take of the tree of life, and live forever. No eternal life came by the first Adam: eternal life came by Jesus Christ, who is the tree of life, eternal life promised and given by Jesus Christ: Eternal life by Jesus Christ, Romans 5:21; and, he that eateth of this bread shall live forever, John 6:58. Because I live, ye shall live also, John 14:19. God sent his Son, that we might live through him, 1st John 4:9. Only believers have eternal life: he that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, John 3:36. Whosoever believeth shall not perish, but have everlasting life, John 3:14-15. I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, John 10:28. The wicked abide not forever, 1st John 2:17. If ye live after the flesh ye shall die, Romans 8:13. Him will God destroy, 1st Corinthians 3:17. The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, 1st Corinthians 1:18; 2nd Thess 2:10. Utterly perish, 2nd Peter 2:12; Luke 13:3. To their own destruction, 2nd Peter 3:16. Abideth in death, Romans 6:21,23; 1st John 3:14. They shall be destroyed forever, Psalm 92:7.
If they perish and not have eternal life, then they cannot live forever. God said, if thou eatest, thou shalt surely die, Genesis 2:17; but the serpent said, ye shall not die, Genesis 3:4. So the serpent, which is the devil, hath taught men to say as the serpent said, Now they have eaten they shall not die, but shall live forever, and never die; which is to say, God is the liar, and that which the devil said is truth. The word saith, him will God destroy, Matthew 21:41; 1st Corinthians 3:17; 6:13. They shall be destroyed, 2nd Peter 2:12. Swift destruction, their end is destruction, 2nd Peter 2:1. Their opinion saith, they shall never be destroyed, die, nor end, which is no destruction. The word saith, The last enemy is death, 1st Corinthians 15:26. Their opinion saith, that is not the last; there is one after it, which is much worse, and will never end. It saith, God's anger is forever, he will never turn from it: contrary to Jeremiah 3:12; Psalm 50:5; 89:5; 78:38. False prophets said...... they shall suffer so long as God is God; if so, then they have eternal life, (though in misery,) whereas the Scripture doth not declare eternal life to be for all men, John 6:45-47. Promised to us eternal life, 1st John 2:17,25. I give unto them eternal life, to as many as thou hast given me, John 17:2-3. In hope of eternal life, Titus 1:2. As many as were ordained to eternal life believed, Acts 13:48. They that have done good unto the resurrection of life, John 5:29. If it be granted that the wicked have not eternal life, as hath been proved, it will follow that they cannot suffer forever, so long as God is God; and therefore all their building of punishment never to end falls: grant the first, and the latter must needs to follow.
If Adam had not sinned, he should have died; as appears from the following considerations~
He had, in his creation, a natural body, 1st Corinthians 15:44: that which is natural is not eternal, ver. 46, he was of the earth, earthly, ver. 47-48, therefore mortal and corruptible, ver. 53-54.
Man in his first being was corporal and visible to be seen; things seen are not eternal. Some believe if Adam had stood, he could not have conveyed to us a body immortal, if God had given Adam an immortal and unchangeable nature, he had created a god, and not a man. Augustine, in his Book of Confessions, saith, because the Lord created man of nothing, therefore he left in man a possibility to return to nothing, if he obeyed not the will of his Maker.
Just getting started~RB
Let us consider this subject, proofs for this doctrine and proofs against this doctrine. (I first put this together back in 12-2021 for some friends, so I have it saved)
Many teach there is a literal burning hellfire now where the wicked go at the death of their bodies. You would think such people who believe this doctrine would have many scriptures supporting them, and it would be easy to defend this doctrine of endless suffering for the wicked. The majority of professing Christians I believe hold to this doctrine, just as I once did ~ they were taught this doctrine when they first came to Christ, and I just assumed it was so, only later I had trouble finding any support for such a doctrine.
Actually, it was taught as one of the cardinal truths by which you measure a person's faith.
Let me get right to this study~by giving many infallible proofs that there is not to be a punishment after this Life, never to end, other than to be cast into the lake of fire, which the Holy Spirit tells us IS the SECOND DEATH.
1. The Scriptures hold forth no such thing, as will be shown; we ought not to presume above that which is written; which many do~ revealed things belong to us.
It will soon be evident the NT and OT are silent about such as place as a literal burning hellfire, now and will be hereafter for eternity according to many folks faith.
2. The doctrine of a punishment never to end is contrary to the word of God, because it maintains that the wicked shall have eternal life. If man was to live forever, why was the flaming sword set to keep the way of the tree of life? Genesis. 3:24~ Lest he put forth his hand and take of the tree of life, and live forever. No eternal life came by the first Adam: eternal life came by Jesus Christ, who is the tree of life, eternal life promised and given by Jesus Christ: Eternal life by Jesus Christ, Romans 5:21; and, he that eateth of this bread shall live forever, John 6:58. Because I live, ye shall live also, John 14:19. God sent his Son, that we might live through him, 1st John 4:9. Only believers have eternal life: he that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, John 3:36. Whosoever believeth shall not perish, but have everlasting life, John 3:14-15. I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, John 10:28. The wicked abide not forever, 1st John 2:17. If ye live after the flesh ye shall die, Romans 8:13. Him will God destroy, 1st Corinthians 3:17. The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, 1st Corinthians 1:18; 2nd Thess 2:10. Utterly perish, 2nd Peter 2:12; Luke 13:3. To their own destruction, 2nd Peter 3:16. Abideth in death, Romans 6:21,23; 1st John 3:14. They shall be destroyed forever, Psalm 92:7.
If they perish and not have eternal life, then they cannot live forever. God said, if thou eatest, thou shalt surely die, Genesis 2:17; but the serpent said, ye shall not die, Genesis 3:4. So the serpent, which is the devil, hath taught men to say as the serpent said, Now they have eaten they shall not die, but shall live forever, and never die; which is to say, God is the liar, and that which the devil said is truth. The word saith, him will God destroy, Matthew 21:41; 1st Corinthians 3:17; 6:13. They shall be destroyed, 2nd Peter 2:12. Swift destruction, their end is destruction, 2nd Peter 2:1. Their opinion saith, they shall never be destroyed, die, nor end, which is no destruction. The word saith, The last enemy is death, 1st Corinthians 15:26. Their opinion saith, that is not the last; there is one after it, which is much worse, and will never end. It saith, God's anger is forever, he will never turn from it: contrary to Jeremiah 3:12; Psalm 50:5; 89:5; 78:38. False prophets said...... they shall suffer so long as God is God; if so, then they have eternal life, (though in misery,) whereas the Scripture doth not declare eternal life to be for all men, John 6:45-47. Promised to us eternal life, 1st John 2:17,25. I give unto them eternal life, to as many as thou hast given me, John 17:2-3. In hope of eternal life, Titus 1:2. As many as were ordained to eternal life believed, Acts 13:48. They that have done good unto the resurrection of life, John 5:29. If it be granted that the wicked have not eternal life, as hath been proved, it will follow that they cannot suffer forever, so long as God is God; and therefore all their building of punishment never to end falls: grant the first, and the latter must needs to follow.
If Adam had not sinned, he should have died; as appears from the following considerations~
He had, in his creation, a natural body, 1st Corinthians 15:44: that which is natural is not eternal, ver. 46, he was of the earth, earthly, ver. 47-48, therefore mortal and corruptible, ver. 53-54.
Man in his first being was corporal and visible to be seen; things seen are not eternal. Some believe if Adam had stood, he could not have conveyed to us a body immortal, if God had given Adam an immortal and unchangeable nature, he had created a god, and not a man. Augustine, in his Book of Confessions, saith, because the Lord created man of nothing, therefore he left in man a possibility to return to nothing, if he obeyed not the will of his Maker.
Just getting started~RB
Let us consider this subject, proofs for this doctrine and proofs against this doctrine. (I first put this together back in 12-2021 for some friends, so I have it saved)
Many teach there is a literal burning hellfire now where the wicked go at the death of their bodies.
You would think such people who believe this doctrine would have many scriptures supporting them, and it would be easy to defend this doctrine of endless suffering for the wicked. The majority of professing Christians I believe hold to this doctrine, just as I once did ~ they were taught this doctrine when they first came to Christ, and I just assumed it was so, only later I had trouble finding any support for such a doctrine.
Actually, it was taught as one of the cardinal truths by which you measure a person's faith.
Let me get right to this study~by giving many infallible proofs that there is not to be a punishment after this Life, never to end, other than to be cast into the lake of fire, which the Holy Spirit tells us IS the SECOND DEATH.
whose version. kin and all modern bibles are esau's corrupt scroll.1. The Scriptures hold forth no such thing, as will be shown; we ought not to presume above that which is written; which many do~ revealed things belong to us.
very weird but i won't elaborate here.It will soon be evident the NT and OT are silent about such as place as a literal burning hellfire, now and will be hereafter for eternity according to many folks faith.
2. The doctrine of a punishment never to end is contrary to the word of God, because it maintains that the wicked shall have eternal life.
If man was to live forever, why was the flaming sword set to keep the way of the tree of life?
Genesis. 3:24~ Lest he put forth his hand and take of the tree of life, and live forever.
No eternal life came by the first Adam: eternal life came by Jesus Christ, who is the tree of life, eternal life promised and given by Jesus Christ: Eternal life by Jesus Christ, Romans 5:21; and, he that eateth of this bread shall live forever, John 6:58. Because I live, ye shall live also, John 14:19. God sent his Son, that we might live through him, 1st John 4:9. Only believers have eternal life: he that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, John 3:36. Whosoever believeth shall not perish, but have everlasting life, John 3:14-15. I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, John 10:28. The wicked abide not forever, 1st John 2:17. If ye live after the flesh ye shall die, Romans 8:13. Him will God destroy, 1st Corinthians 3:17. The preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, 1st Corinthians 1:18; 2nd Thess 2:10. Utterly perish, 2nd Peter 2:12; Luke 13:3. To their own destruction, 2nd Peter 3:16. Abideth in death, Romans 6:21,23; 1st John 3:14. They shall be destroyed forever, Psalm 92:7.
If they perish and not have eternal life, then they cannot live forever.
God said, if thou eatest, thou shalt surely die,
adam did not die.Genesis 2:17; but the serpent said, ye shall not die, Genesis 3:4. So the serpent, which is the devil, hath taught men to say as the serpent said, Now they have eaten they shall not die, but shall live forever, and never die; which is to say, God is the liar, and that which the devil said is truth. The word saith, him will God destroy, Matthew 21:41; 1st Corinthians 3:17; 6:13. They shall be destroyed, 2nd Peter 2:12. Swift destruction, their end is destruction, 2nd Peter 2:1. Their opinion saith, they shall never be destroyed, die, nor end, which is no destruction. The word saith, The last enemy is death, 1st Corinthians 15:26. Their opinion saith, that is not the last; there is one after it, which is much worse, and will never end. It saith, God's anger is forever, he will never turn from it: contrary to Jeremiah 3:12; Psalm 50:5; 89:5; 78:38. False prophets said...... they shall suffer so long as God is God; if so, then they have eternal life, (though in misery,) whereas the Scripture doth not declare eternal life to be for all men, John 6:45-47. Promised to us eternal life, 1st John 2:17,25. I give unto them eternal life, to as many as thou hast given me, John 17:2-3. In hope of eternal life, Titus 1:2. As many as were ordained to eternal life believed, Acts 13:48. They that have done good unto the resurrection of life, John 5:29. If it be granted that the wicked have not eternal life, as hath been proved, it will follow that they cannot suffer forever, so long as God is God; and therefore all their building of punishment never to end falls: grant the first, and the latter must needs to follow.
If Adam had not sinned, he should have died; as appears from the following considerations~
He had, in his creation, a natural body,
1st Corinthians 15:44: that which is natural is not eternal, ver. 46, he was of the earth, earthly, ver. 47-48, therefore mortal and corruptible, ver. 53-54.
Man in his first being was corporal and visible to be seen; things seen are not eternal. Some believe if Adam had stood, he could not have conveyed to us a body immortal, if God had given Adam an immortal and unchangeable nature, he had created a god, and not a man. Augustine, in his Book of Confessions, saith, because the Lord created man of nothing, therefore he left in man a possibility to return to nothing, if he obeyed not the will of his Maker.
Just getting started~RB
civic, three places~most all of my baptist forefathers taught this~if your do a study on The London Confession of faith in its first edition, (1642 I believe) those Baptist forefathers who were Particular Baptist taught this. Secondly, one of the main men working of the first edition was Samuel Richardson, who wrote on this subject more than the other men. Thirdly, some are my personal understanding after fifty years of considering this subject, which would have to be the case, or, I would not have embraced this truth.What is the source material for these 6-8 posts ?
As time permits, I would like to consider some of these points. Later....RBKey Facts About Eternity From Bible.org
(1) Everyone will exist eternally either in heaven or hell (Daniel 12:2,3; Matthew 25:46; John 5:28; Revelation 20:14,15).
(2) Everyone has only one life in which to determine their destiny (Hebrews 9:27).
(3) Heaven or hell is determined by whether a person believes (puts their trust) in Christ alone to save them (John 3:16, 36, etc.).
Key Passages About Hell
(1) Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).
(2) Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8).
(3) Hell is conscious torment.
(4) Hell is eternal and irreversible.
- Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”
- Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”
- Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”
- Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”
- Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”
- Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”
Erroneous Views of Hell
(1) The second chance view – After death there is still a way to escape hell.
Answer: “It is appointed unto men once to die and after that the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).
(2) Universalism – All are eternally saved.
Answer: It denies the truth of salvation through Christ which means that a person decides to either trust in Christ or else he/she rejects Christ and goes to hell (John 3:16;3:36).
(3) Annihilationism – Hell means a person dies like an animal – ceases to exist.
Answer: It denies the resurrection of the unsaved (John 5:28, etc. – see above). It denies conscious torment (see above).
Objections to the Biblical View of Hell
(1) A loving God would not send people to a horrible hell.
Response: God is just (Romans 2:11).
(2) Hell is too severe a punishment for man’s sin.
- God has provided the way of salvation to all (John 3:16,17; 2 Corinthians 5:14,15; 1 Timothy 2:6; 4:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Peter 3:9).
- Even those who haven’t heard of Christ are accountable for God’s revelation in nature (Romans 1:20). God will seek those who seek Him (Matthew 7:7; Luke 19:10).
- Therefore God doesn’t send people to hell, they choose it (Romans 1:18,21,25).
Response: God is holy-perfect (1 Peter 1:14,15).
- Sin is willful opposition to God our creator (Romans 1:18-32).
- Our sin does merit hell (Romans 1:32; 2:2,5,6).
- What is unfair and amazing is that Christ died for our sin and freely offers salvation to all (Romans 2:4; 3:22-24; 4:7,8; 5:8,9).
Biblical Terms Describing Where the Dead Are
- Sheol - a Hebrew term simply describing “the grave” or “death” – Does not refer to “hell” specifically
- Hades - A Greek term that usually refers to hell – a place of torment (Luke 10:15; 16:23, etc.)
- Gehenna - A Greek term (borrowed from a literal burning dump near Jerusalem) that always refers to hell – a place of torment (Matthew 5:30; 23:33)
- “Lake of fire”- the final abode of unbelievers after they are resurrected (Revelation 20:14,15)
- “Abraham’s bosom” - (Luke 16:22) a place of eternal comfort
- “Paradise” - (Luke 23:43) a place of eternal comfort
- “With the Lord” - a key phrase describes where church age believers are after death (Philippians 1:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 5:8)
- “New heavens and earth” – where believers will be after they are resurrected (Revelation 20:4-6; 21:1-4)
Conclusion
Our curiosity about the abode of the dead is not completely satisfied by biblical terms or verses. What we do know is that either eternal torment in hell or eternal joy in heaven awaits all people after death, based on whether they trust in Christ’s payment for sin or reject Christ.
Related Topics: Hell