Is the word all ever used in a restricted sense ?

brightfame52 said:
Those reconciled by Christs death while enemies/unbelief, shall be saved by His life Rom5:10
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“Shall be saved” (σωθησόμεθα) is a Future/Indicative/Passive verb. It is not a present tense statement of reality.

This only shows that God acted in first, while we were yet his enemies, but now, because of Christ’s death and resurrection, God no longer had to be our enemy.

Moreover, 2 Cor 5 also says that this passage is about our ministry of reconciliation: 5:11Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade others.

If the elect are predestined and already saved, there is no need for attempting “persuasion”. As Yoda once said, “There is only do or don’t do; there is no try!”


Doug
 
brightfame52 said:
You still don't get it!
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One of my favorite poetry special for you -

Heaven’s Surprise

I was shocked, confused, bewildered as I entered Heaven’s door,
Not by the beauty of it all, nor the lights or its decor.

But it was the folks in Heaven who made me sputter and gasp
The thieves, the liars, the sinners, the alcoholics and the trash.

There stood the kid from seventh grade who swiped my lunch money twice.
Next to him was my old neighbor who never said anything nice.

Herb, who I always thought was rotting away in Hell,
Was sitting pretty on cloud nine, looking incredibly well.

I nudged Jesus, ‘What’s the deal? I would love to hear your take.
How’d all these sinners get up here? God must’ve made a mistake.

And why’s everyone so quiet, so somber – give me a clue.
Hush, child,’ He said, ‘they’re all in shock.
No one thought they’d be seeing you.
 
brightfame52 said:
The drawing in Jn 12:32 is the inward work of the Sanctification of the Spirit unto the chosen
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Your exegesis is terrible.

Context -

John 12:19 So the Pharisees said to one another, “You see that you are gaining nothing. Look, the world has gone after him.”

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

In answer to hyperbole of the the Pharisees with hyperbole also as getting even more attention when He is crucified.
 
@TibiasDad

God is reconciled to the world,
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Of the elect sure. The world He doesnt charge with sin 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

That world, not all without exception ,but all without distinction is saved from the penalty of their sins.
 
@TibiasDad

“Shall be saved” (σωθησόμεθα) is a Future/Indicative/Passive verb. It is not a present tense statement of reality.
Click to expand...

Yet the reconciliation to God is a present tense reality which means the reconciled shall be saved in the future

Reconciled in Rom 5:10 is a aorist passive past tense and having been reconciled, its ensured they SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE ! So the reconciled are in a secure position, they shall experience final eternal salvation by Christs Life.

So the "shall be saved"in the future strengthens the truth they are saved legally now
 
ProDeo said:
Your exegesis is terrible.

Context -

John 12:19 So the Pharisees said to one another, “You see that you are gaining nothing. Look, the world has gone after him.”

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

In answer to hyperbole of the the Pharisees with hyperbole also as getting even more attention when He is crucified.
Click to expand...
The drawing in Jn 12:32 is the inward work of the Sanctification of the Spirit unto the chosen
 
brightfame52 said:
The drawing in Jn 12:32 is the inward work of the Sanctification of the Spirit unto the chosen
Click to expand...
Terrible...

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
John 12:33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

Lifted up from the earth, put on a cross, nails in the hands, then lifted up, hanging 2-3 meters up from the ground.
 
brightfame52 said:
Reconciled in Rom 5:10 is a aorist passive past tense and having been reconciled, its ensured they SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE !
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Assuming you understand Greek, I would remind you that the Aorist describes completed action, but says nothing about the continuation of the action after the completion.

Even the perfect tense only extends to the present tense moment of the context.

Doug
 
ProDeo said:
Terrible...

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
John 12:33 He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

Lifted up from the earth, put on a cross, nails in the hands, then lifted up, hanging 2-3 meters up from the ground.
Click to expand...
Thats Jesus guarantee that all for whom He died shall come to believe in Him. If a person doesnt become a believer, which is true of many, He wasn't lifted up for them, they were not of His Sheep Jn 10:26
 
TibiasDad said:
It doesn’t say the elect of the world. You’re reading your theology into the text, not drawing it from the text. John 3:16 doesn’t say “for God so loved the elect of the world” either.

Doug
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It doesnt have to say elect world, we know the elect are the only ones who dont get charged with sin, for who shall lay anything to the charge of Gods elect Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Also many do have their sins charged to them sins and will be punished for them Jn 8:24

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Now the reconciled wotld has no sins to die in duh 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
 
TibiasDad said:
Assuming you understand Greek, I would remind you that the Aorist describes completed action, but says nothing about the continuation of the action after the completion.

Even the perfect tense only extends to the present tense moment of the context.

Doug
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Yes its an completed action in the past, so they were reconciled in the past, and what is the promise to the reconciled in Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
brightfame52 said:
It doesnt have to say elect world, we know the elect are the only ones who dont get charged with sin, for who shall lay anything to the charge of Gods elect Rom 8:33-34
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You either haven’t had a hermenutics class, or you didn’t do very well. You cannot assume a word is meant unless it is actually stated in the immediate context.

For instance, 1 John 2:1-2 “He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins, but the sins of the whole world.” “Our sins” refers to those of us who have already believed; so the other sins are those of the rest of humanity (the world).


The elect are those who believe. He chooses those who believe. There is no sin to be charged, because they are forgiven.

Doug
 
brightfame52 said:
Matt 10:22

And ye shall be hated of all [pas] men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Now is all here in this verse used in a restricted sense or does it comprehend all men without exception ? Will there be any exceptions to this General rule ?

Or is it as some arminians always say as they deny limited atonement, all means all, meaning all without exception !


What about Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all[ πᾶς] men unto me. Will there be any exceptions to this General rule ?
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There might be SOME times when all refers to less than ALL, but the context would have to indicate that that is so. Of course you're just looking for an "escape mechanism" from the general definition of "all", so it will fit into your false doctrine. I don't think that's going to work, because I think you'll find that generally, "all" means "all".
How about the Calvinist's other "escape mechanism" from the general definition of "world"? "God so loved the WORLD ..." Of course the Calvinists don't want that to mean "the WHOLE world", but just the "world" of the elect. What a slap in God's face - to say that He doesn't love the whole world. Nor, according to them, did Jesus die for the sins of "the whole world", even though John said exactly that. 1 John 2:2

What about this? Why was Jesus having a discussion with Nicodemus about spiritual things, if Nicodemus was spiritually dead? Didn't Jesus know that a spiritually dead person is like a corpse - that is, he cannot respond at all, unless he had first been sovereignly regenerated by God?
But wait! Nicodemus DID respond, and even acknowledged what Jesus had said about being born again. How is that possible, since He was spiritually dead?

Oh, I get it - Calvinism is a FALSE TEACHING. Spiritually dead people, which we all were at one time, ARE ABLE TO RESPOND to the Holy Spirit.

What about Adam and Eve and Cain? After the fall, they were spiritually dead, but God still spoke to each of them. But why would God speak to 3 "corpses" since they couldn't respond? In fact He even told Cain that he was supposed to "master sin", so that it wouldn't control him. The obvious answer is that EVEN SPIRITUALLY DEAD PEOPLE CAN HEAR GOD, AND RESPOND TO HIM.

Just one more nail in the Calvinist coffin! Unfortunately Calvinism is not dead, but fortunately Calvinists CAN respond to the truth and repent from such a twisted and dark doctrine.
 
TibiasDad said:
You either haven’t had a hermenutics class, or you didn’t do very well. You cannot assume a word is meant unless it is actually stated in the immediate context.

For instance, 1 John 2:1-2 “He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins, but the sins of the whole world.” “Our sins” refers to those of us who have already believed; so the other sins are those of the rest of humanity (the world).


The elect are those who believe. He chooses those who believe. There is no sin to be charged, because they are forgiven.

Doug
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It doesnt have to say elect world,
 

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