Is the word all ever used in a restricted sense ?

Now can you show me where I stated

"So you are of the opinion that Jesus was speaking TO and FOR the people hearing THEN and John 17:6-8 has no relevance to us, living today. (I disagree.)"
Sure ...
My question was:
I am always cautious around anything that even seems to suggest that “that was for then and not for now” … which is contrary to the spirit of “God-breathed” scripture.

Does the Father own only the “cattle” on a thousand hills? Are there not still people that are His that He can give to the Son?
and Your response was ...
There was simply not a lot of information the Israelites had received about the son and there was clearly no happening of the divine son taking upon himself humanity until that time

Note that YOUR RESPONSE focused 100% on THEM (the people listening) and completely ignores US (the modern readers). You answered my question "Are there not still people that are His that He can give to the Son?" with an implied "No."
 
Does the word world here mean all without exception or does it have an exception ? Rom 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
 

What does Romans 11:15 mean?​

Paul answers a question in this verse that he posed in verse 12, as well. There, he wrote that Israel's full inclusion in faith in Christ will mean a great deal for the Gentiles. It will be even greater than the riches of God's glory, received through faith in Christ, made available when Israel rejected Christ.

Now he asks a similar question. If Israel's rejection, by God and for a certain period, led to reconciliation with God for the rest of the world, what will be the benefit to the rest of the world when the fullness of Israelites is eventually accepted by God through faith in Christ? Paul writes that it will mean life from the dead.

Paul seems to be saying that God's eventual acceptance of Israel is somehow connected to the idea of resurrection, perhaps the future resurrection of the bodies of all who are in Christ at some future moment. The exact meaning of "life from the dead," however, is debated by Bible scholars.

To understand Romans 11:15, we must acknowledge both the historical and theological significance of the passage. For Israel, being the chosen people, the rejection of their own Messiah was deeply painful. It felt like a complete disconnection from God’s plan at one moment. However, this severance was also part of a bigger picture. As Paul explains, their rejection enriched the world. The gospel message, previously limited to Israel, now spilled over into the Gentile territories, resulting in vast numbers of people coming to faith in Christ. There is great irony in God’s plan; what seemed like a setback for Israel became the very means through which God revealed His love to a wider audience.

BibleRepository.com
 
I see the word world kosmos used in a restricted sense in Rom 11:15, I dont believe it includes jews of national israel. So we should never be dogmatic that world in scripture means all mankind without exception.
 
Romans 11:15 encapsulates the theological significance of Israel's rejection and its implications for the salvation of the Gentiles, highlighting the hope in restoration that follows for the world.
 
That doesn't sound right
I know, but it is true. God personally stated that he hated Esau.

Malachi 1:2-4 [NASB]
"I have loved you," says the LORD. But you say, "How have You loved us?" "[Was] Esau not Jacob's brother?" declares the LORD. "Yet I have loved Jacob; but I have hated Esau, and I have made his mountains a desolation and [given] his inheritance to the jackals of the wilderness." Though Edom says, "We have been beaten down, but we will return and build up the ruins"; this is what the LORD of armies says: "They may build, but I will tear down; and [people] will call them the territory of wickedness, and the people with whom the LORD is indignant forever."

Romans 9:13 [NASB]
Just as it is written: "JACOB I HAVE LOVED, BUT ESAU I HAVE HATED."

:cool:
 
I know, but it is true. God personally stated that he hated Esau.
Its more than just esau God hates, consider the whole counsel of God Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity

So does the word kosmos world , have a restricted meaning ? Does it have a restricted meaning in Rom 11:15

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
 
Its more than just esau God hates, consider the whole counsel of God Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity

So does the word kosmos world , have a restricted meaning ? Does it have a restricted meaning in Rom 11:15

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
I was teasing a bit.

"World" is a tricky word that has a fluid meaning depending on the context of its use. When God created the "World" ... what didn't God create? When the whole "World" gathered to hear him speak ... was that really everyone without exception?

Splitting that particular hair (atonement), I prefer to stay out of a foolish arguments. Jesus died for everyone that He chose to die for [sufficient for all, effective for some] ... the details are 100% His business and above my pay grade.
 
World" is a tricky word that has a fluid meaning depending on the context of its use.
I agree
Splitting that particular hair (atonement), I prefer to stay out of a foolish arguments. Jesus died for everyone that He chose to die for [sufficient for all, effective for some] ... the details are 100% His business and above my pay grade.
This is not sound speech and the word world kosmos does have a limited meaning. For instance in Rom 11:15 the jews are exempt from the world.

And then your comment
. Jesus died for everyone that He chose to die for [sufficient for all, effective for some] .
How could it be sufficient for all when its purpose was to save some. Do you believe the death of Christ gives hope to the non elect to be saved ? Was any of the blood of Christ shed for them ? Look up the word sufficient, it means:

Sufficient is an adjective meaning enough to meet a need or purpose; it is adequate, competent, or satisfactory. It describes having just the right amount, rather than an excess. https://www.google.com/search?q=sufficient&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
 
How could it be sufficient for all when its purpose was to save some.
Was the death of the Son of God “insufficient” to save someone?
Is salvation JESUS PLUS SOMETHING?
Is someone “too lost for God to save”?

I did not invent “Sufficient for all” … I know it goes back at least as far as John Owen (Puritan):

Now, such as was the sacrifice and offering of Christ in itself, such was it intended by his Father it should be. It was, then, the purpose and intention of God that his Son should offer a sacrifice of infinite worth, value, and dignity, sufficient in itself for the redeeming of all and every man, if it had pleased the Lord to employ it to that purpose; yea, and of other worlds also, if the Lord should freely make them, and would redeem them. Sufficient we say, then, was the sacrifice of Christ for the redemption of the whole world, and for the expiation of all the sins of all and every man in the world. This sufficiency of his sacrifice hath a twofold rise:—First, The dignity of the person that did offer and was offered. Secondly, The greatness of the pain he endured, by which he was able to bear, and did undergo, the whole curse of the law and wrath of God due to sin. And this sets out the innate, real, true worth and value of the blood-shedding of Jesus Christ. This is its own true internal perfection and sufficiency. That it should be applied unto any, made a price for them, and become beneficial to them, according to the worth that is in it, is external to it, doth not arise from it, but merely depends upon the intention and will of God. It was in itself of infinite value and sufficiency to have been made a price to have bought and purchased all and every man in the world. That it did formally become a price for any is solely to be ascribed to the purpose of God, intending their purchase and redemption by it. The intention of the offerer and accepter that it should be for such, some, or any, is that which gives the formality of a price unto it; this is external. But the value and fitness of it to be made a price ariseth from its own internal sufficiency. Hence may appear what is to be thought of that old distinction of the schoolmen, embraced and used by divers protestant divines, though by others again rejected,—namely, “That Christ died for all in respect of the sufficiency of the ransom he paid, but not in respect of the efficacy of its application;” or, “The blood of Christ was a sufficient price for the sins of all the world;”—which last expression is corrected by some, and thus asserted, “That the blood of Christ was sufficient to have been made a price for all;” which is most true, as was before declared: for its being a price for all or some doth not arise from its own sufficiency, worth, or dignity, but from the intention of God and Christ using it to that purpose, as was declared; and, therefore,it is denied that the blood of Christ was a sufficient price and ransom for all and everyone, not because it was not sufficient, but because it was not a ransom. And so it easily appears what is to be owned in the distinction itself before expressed. If it intend no more but that the blood of our Savior was of sufficient value for the redemption of all and everyone, and that Christ intended to lay down a price which should be sufficient for their redemption, it is acknowledged as most true. But the truth is, that expression, “To die for them,” holds out the intention of our Savior, in the laying down of the price, to have been their redemption; which we deny, and affirm that then it could not be but that they must be made actual partakers of the eternal redemption purchased for them, unless God failed in his design, through the defect of the ransom paid by Christ, his justice refusing to give a dismission upon the delivery of the ransom.
 
Was the death of the Son of God “insufficient” to save someone?
Is salvation JESUS PLUS SOMETHING?
Is someone “too lost for God to save”?

I did not invent “Sufficient for all” … I know it goes back at least as far as John Owen (Puritan):

Now, such as was the sacrifice and offering of Christ in itself, such was it intended by his Father it should be. It was, then, the purpose and intention of God that his Son should offer a sacrifice of infinite worth, value, and dignity, sufficient in itself for the redeeming of all and every man, if it had pleased the Lord to employ it to that purpose; yea, and of other worlds also, if the Lord should freely make them, and would redeem them. Sufficient we say, then, was the sacrifice of Christ for the redemption of the whole world, and for the expiation of all the sins of all and every man in the world. This sufficiency of his sacrifice hath a twofold rise:—First, The dignity of the person that did offer and was offered. Secondly, The greatness of the pain he endured, by which he was able to bear, and did undergo, the whole curse of the law and wrath of God due to sin. And this sets out the innate, real, true worth and value of the blood-shedding of Jesus Christ. This is its own true internal perfection and sufficiency. That it should be applied unto any, made a price for them, and become beneficial to them, according to the worth that is in it, is external to it, doth not arise from it, but merely depends upon the intention and will of God. It was in itself of infinite value and sufficiency to have been made a price to have bought and purchased all and every man in the world. That it did formally become a price for any is solely to be ascribed to the purpose of God, intending their purchase and redemption by it. The intention of the offerer and accepter that it should be for such, some, or any, is that which gives the formality of a price unto it; this is external. But the value and fitness of it to be made a price ariseth from its own internal sufficiency. Hence may appear what is to be thought of that old distinction of the schoolmen, embraced and used by divers protestant divines, though by others again rejected,—namely, “That Christ died for all in respect of the sufficiency of the ransom he paid, but not in respect of the efficacy of its application;” or, “The blood of Christ was a sufficient price for the sins of all the world;”—which last expression is corrected by some, and thus asserted, “That the blood of Christ was sufficient to have been made a price for all;” which is most true, as was before declared: for its being a price for all or some doth not arise from its own sufficiency, worth, or dignity, but from the intention of God and Christ using it to that purpose, as was declared; and, therefore,it is denied that the blood of Christ was a sufficient price and ransom for all and everyone, not because it was not sufficient, but because it was not a ransom. And so it easily appears what is to be owned in the distinction itself before expressed. If it intend no more but that the blood of our Savior was of sufficient value for the redemption of all and everyone, and that Christ intended to lay down a price which should be sufficient for their redemption, it is acknowledged as most true. But the truth is, that expression, “To die for them,” holds out the intention of our Savior, in the laying down of the price, to have been their redemption; which we deny, and affirm that then it could not be but that they must be made actual partakers of the eternal redemption purchased for them, unless God failed in his design, through the defect of the ransom paid by Christ, his justice refusing to give a dismission upon the delivery of the ransom.
The word sufficient means:

Sufficient means having or providing as much as is needed; adequate; enough. It indicates that a requirement, need, or purpose is met. The term is often used to describe resources, time, or evidence, such as "sufficient funds" or "sufficient time". It is more formal than "enough".
 
The word sufficient means:

Sufficient means having or providing as much as is needed; adequate; enough. It indicates that a requirement, need, or purpose is met. The term is often used to describe resources, time, or evidence, such as "sufficient funds" or "sufficient time". It is more formal than "enough".
If John Owen is too “Arminian” for you, then that seems like a “you” problem more than a “me” problem. ;)
 
Please answer me this, do the non elect have any chance of being saved by the atonement of Christ ? Yes or no
It is a nonsensical question. The non-elect are those that ultimately spend eternity damned, so asking if there is any chance that the damned are really saved is “nonsense”. Talk of the “atonement” is a red herring.

I told you, I do not comment on who Jesus chose to die for (Atonement). There is no scripture verse that definitively settles “Limited” vs “General” atonement, and it is not my place to speak where God has chosen to remain silent.
 
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