Is the word all ever used in a restricted sense ?

[TomL]

You still dont get it, in the scripture the word all is almost always used in a limited restricted sense.

Sorry, you failed to show that not addressing a single passage having to do with who Christ died for

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


And it is not just the word "all" you have to deal with but words like any, world, whole world, nation, all men ETC

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, you failed to show that not addressing a single passage having to do with who Christ died for

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


And it is not just the word "all" you have to deal with but words like any, world, whole world, nation, all men ETC

You still dont get it, in the scripture the word all is almost always used in a limited restricted sense.

 

[TomL]

You still dont get it, in the scripture the word all is almost always used in a limited restricted sense.

You ignored this

Sorry, you failed to show that not addressing a single passage having to do with who Christ died for

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


And it is not just the word "all" you have to deal with but words like any, world, whole world, nation, all men ETC

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored this

Sorry, you failed to show that not addressing a single passage having to do with who Christ died for

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


And it is not just the word "all" you have to deal with but words like any, world, whole world, nation, all men ETC

The word all is almost alway used in a limited restricted sense

 

[TomL]

The word all is almost alway used in a limited restricted sense

You are still ignoring this

You ignored this

Sorry, you failed to show that not addressing a single passage having to do with who Christ died for

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


And it is not just the word "all" you have to deal with but words like any, world, whole world, nation, all men ETC

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

You are still ignoring this

All is almost always used in a restricted sense.

 

[Johann]

@TomL


All is almost always used in a restricted sense.

This is getting ridiculous--three times repeating yourself and I hope the @Administrator is watching this.

The Greek word κόσμος (kosmos) is not used in a restricted sense (e.g., referring only to the elect or a specific subset of humanity) in the New Testament unless the context explicitly qualifies it. The overwhelming evidence from Greek lexicons and exegetical sources confirms that kosmos generally refers to the world as a whole, humanity collectively, or the created order, rather than a theologically restricted group. Below are key scholarly sources on this matter.

Lexicons and Grammars on Kosmos
1. Liddell-Scott-Jones (LSJ), Greek-English Lexicon
Defines kosmos as:

Order, arrangement, decoration

The universe, world

The inhabitants of the world (i.e., people)

Mankind as a whole

The present world in contrast to the afterlife

No definition limits kosmos to a specific subset of people.

2. Bauer, Danker, Arndt, and Gingrich (BDAG), A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature
Categories of kosmos:

The world/universe (John 17:5)

The earth and its inhabitants (John 3:16, 1 John 2:2)

Mankind in general (Romans 3:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19)

The present world system opposed to God (John 12:31, James 4:4)

Adornment/arrangement (1 Peter 3:3)

BDAG never lists a restrictive meaning such as "only the elect."

3. Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), ed. Gerhard Kittel
Discusses kosmos in Greek philosophy, the Septuagint, and the New Testament (Vol. 3, pp. 868–898).

Notes that kosmos typically refers to:

The orderly arrangement of creation

All of humanity collectively

The fallen world system in moral contrast to God

Finds no evidence for restricting kosmos to only a subset of humanity.

4. J.H. Thayer, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament
Lists definitions:

The universe, all created things

The inhabitants of the earth, mankind (John 3:16)

The ungodly world system (1 John 5:19)

Material possessions (the world’s goods) (Matthew 16:26)

No indication that kosmos is ever restricted to the elect.

5. Richard C. Trench, Synonyms of the New Testament
Explains that kosmos refers to the world as an orderly system and in moral contrast to God, but never in a restrictive sense limited to a certain group of people.

6. A.T. Robertson, A Grammar of the Greek New Testament in the Light of Historical Research
Discusses kosmos as a broad term meaning all of humanity or the world system and argues that restricting kosmos to a theological subset is imposed rather than drawn from the Greek itself.

7. Henry Alford, The Greek Testament: With a Critically Revised Text
Examines kosmos in Johannine theology and states that John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2 refer to all humanity, not a limited group.

Rejects interpretations that artificially narrow kosmos to "only the elect."

8. Marvin R. Vincent, Word Studies in the New Testament
Explicitly states that kosmos in John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2 must be understood inclusively and that restricting it to the elect is a forced reading.

9. Kenneth Wuest, Word Studies from the Greek New Testament
Notes that kosmos never refers exclusively to the elect but always carries a broader meaning.

John 3:16 is cited as evidence that kosmos includes all of humanity, not a limited group.

10. H.E. Dana & Julius R. Mantey, A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament
Explains that kosmos typically refers to the world in an inclusive sense, unless specifically modified by the text.


No authoritative Greek lexicon, grammatical study, or theological dictionary supports the claim that kosmos is used in a restricted sense (i.e., meaning only the elect or a specific group of people). The sources above consistently affirm that kosmos refers to the entire world, humanity collectively, or the created order, and its meaning should be determined by context, not imposed theological assumptions.

Your assertion debunked.

J.


2/2









J.

 

[atpollard]

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Does that mean babies were born under condemnation?

 

[brightfame52]

@Johann

This is getting ridiculous--three times repeating yourself and I hope the @Administrator is watching this.

You repeating yourself. The word all is always used in a restrictive sense, like here Lk 2:1

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed.

Caesar only had jurisdiction in a part of the world,not all the world totally. He couldnt tax egypt

 

[TomL]

Does that mean babies were born under condemnation?

I do not believe so

 

[atpollard]

I do not believe so

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

… then ALL does not mean “all people without exception”, does it, which then causes one to wonder about the SECOND use of “all men” in that same verse also not meaning “all people without exception”. We should be consistent in our hermeneutics, should we not?

 

[atpollard]

Let us discuss another …

1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Help me to understand what YOU interpret this to mean.

• What does “will have” mean? Do you perceive that as saying God “desires” (whether it actually happens or not) or do you see that as God “will cause to happen” (making it a certainty)?
  • Does God merely desire “all men” to know the truth or will God cause “all men” to know the truth?
• What does “all men” mean to you? All people without exception (every individual, no exceptions) or all people without distinction (Jews and Gentiles)?
• Again, who is “all” in a “ransom for all”? All people without exception (every individual, no exceptions) or all people without distinction (Jews and Gentiles)?
  • Since this is talking about Jesus giving himself as a ransom, are those ransomed actually saved? Why or why not?
  • Are “all without exception” ransomed or saved?
  • Are “all without distinction” (Jews and Gentiles) ransomed or saved?

Since I have asked for your understanding of this scripture (which you selected as important) it is only fair that I offer my understanding as well. I see “will have” as both: “desire” for all without exception and “will cause to happen” for some from every nation, tribe and tongue. I see the “ransom for all” as “all without distinction” and I see that fulfilled in Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, [NKJV]

 

[Selah]

Let us discuss another …


Help me to understand what YOU interpret this to mean.

• What does “will have” mean? Do you perceive that as saying God “desires” (whether it actually happens or not) or do you see that as God “will cause to happen” (making it a certainty)?
  • Does God merely desire “all men” to know the truth or will God cause “all men” to know the truth?
• What does “all men” mean to you? All people without exception (every individual, no exceptions) or all people without distinction (Jews and Gentiles)?
• Again, who is “all” in a “ransom for all”? All people without exception (every individual, no exceptions) or all people without distinction (Jews and Gentiles)?
  • Since this is talking about Jesus giving himself as a ransom, are those ransomed actually saved? Why or why not?
  • Are “all without exception” ransomed or saved?
  • Are “all without distinction” (Jews and Gentiles) ransomed or saved?

Since I have asked for your understanding of this scripture (which you selected as important) it is only fair that I offer my understanding as well. I see “will have” as both: “desire” for all without exception and “will cause to happen” for some from every nation, tribe and tongue. I see the “ransom for all” as “all without distinction” and I see that fulfilled in Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, [NKJV]

Hello, @atpollard ….I apologize for maybe interrupting you folks here, but I just wanted to say that I agree with you that there is no distinction in the "ransom for all" described in Revelation 5:9. On the Cross, Jesus Christ paid an awesome price, and He is truly worthy. When we turn from our sins and repent, he is our Redeemer, who paid the exact price required to save us. I believe that whoever believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and repents is eligible for that salvation.

 

[TomL]

Let us discuss another …


Help me to understand what YOU interpret this to mean.

• What does “will have” mean? Do you perceive that as saying God “desires” (whether it actually happens or not) or do you see that as God “will cause to happen” (making it a certainty)?

Yes

1 Timothy 2:4 (LEB) — 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

My Bible Word Study

Lemma

θέλω thelō wish; want; will

LXGNTLEX wish; want

LXLXXLEX will; wish

• • Does God merely desire “all men” to know the truth or will God cause “all men” to know the truth?

1 Timothy 2:4 (LEB) — 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

not cause

• What does “all men” mean to you? All people without exception (every individual, no exceptions) or all people without distinction (Jews and Gentiles)?

All people, without exception

BTW, all people without distinction is all people with no exceptions.

The word "people" remains modified by "all"

 

[TomL]

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

… then ALL does not mean “all people without exception”, does it, which then causes one to wonder about the SECOND use of “all men” in that same verse also not meaning “all people without exception”. We should be consistent in our hermeneutics, should we not?

Are babies men ?

All born will eventually sin - this would be a case of voluntary approved depravity

 

[brightfame52]

It can easily be demonstrated that not every passage that uses the word “all” does so in a universalistic sense. There are times when a general statement is made that obviously has a limited sense.

Matt 10:22

22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

That does not mean there were no exceptions to this general rule.

Paul said, “All the Jews know my manner of life...” (Acts 26:4). This does not mean that there could not have been certain Jews who had never heard of Paul of Tarsus. It is obviously a general statement.

Joel gives a prophecy in Joel 2:28 that God would pour forth His Spirit “upon all mankind.” Peter quotes this prophecy on the day of Pentecost and states that it is being fulfilled in his day. Does this mean that all men everywhere had the Spirit of God? Or does it only refer to all believers? The answer is obvious. It refers to all believers.

. Christ said that He would draw all men: “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” (John 12:32).

Does this teach a universal drawing of all men to Christ? If it does, then it teaches too much, since Jesus has already used this same term to describe the drawing of certain men earlier in John’s gospel where he said, “No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day” (John 6:44). He went on in that context to say that those who were drawn by God will be taught of God (6:45) and that they will certainly not be cast out (6:37).

Why then does John 12:32 say that Christ will draw all men to Himself? First of all, we should notice that the emphasis given by John’s own commentary on the words of Jesus is not focused upon the universality of Christ’s drawing, but upon the kind of death He should die. We see this in the next verse: But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die (John 12:33).

And yet, verse 32 DOES say something about drawing all men. How are we to understand this? It must be seen in the context. Philip and Andrew have just brought some Greeks to Jesus (John 12:20-22). This is the first time this has happened in Jerusalem. Up to this point, the ministry of Jesus has been almost exclusively toward the Jews. When He sent His disciples out, He told them not to go to the Gentiles (Matthew 10:5-6).

Now some Greeks have been brought to Him. This takes place at the end of His earthly ministry. He will soon be lifted up and nailed to a cross. When He is lifted up, He will draw all sorts of men, both Jews and Greeks.

Once Christ has gone to the cross, He will gather into one body both Jews and Gentiles. There will be no distinction between races or genders or social strata. His church will draw all to Himself.

THE ATONEMENT

 

[atpollard]

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Are babies men ?

All born will eventually sin - this would be a case of voluntary approved depravity

Are women, men? (a dangerous question in 2025 ) … if “men” means mankind (and I think it is clear that it does), then “babies” are included in mankind (as we are not speaking of puppies - baby dogs).

By the time an infant is old enough to throw a milk bottle in anger, it is old enough to sin for itself.
However, the verse (Romans 5:18) says that the condemnation came upon “all men” through Adam, therefore it was not the sin of the individual that brought the condemnation, just as it is not OUR ACTION that brings the righteousness (Jesus action did it). In that verse, both CONDEMNATION and THE FREE GIFT come to “man” (mankind) through the actions of another … I think that was Paul’s whole point to people that were attempting “works righteousness”.

 

[atpollard]

BTW, all people without distinction is all people with no exceptions.

The word "people" remains modified by "all"

Revelation 5:9 paints a different picture of “all people without distinction” …

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, [NKJV]

Unless you are a UNIVERSALIST, then this group represents SOME from every group (ALL without distinction) that are redeemed, but clearly not ALL from every group (ALL without exception … Universal salvation). I prefer to allow the “end result” to define what God means in scripture when He says “ALL”. He shows us what “ALL” looks like - it looks like SOME “out of evert tribe and tongue and people and nation” … technically, “some” is a multitude that no man can count, so it is a LOT of people.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Are women, men? (a dangerous question in 2025 ) … if “men” means mankind (and I think it is clear that it does), then “babies” are included in mankind (as we are not speaking of puppies - baby dogs).

By the time an infant is old enough to throw a milk bottle in anger, it is old enough to sin for itself.
However, the verse (Romans 5:18) says that the condemnation came upon “all men” through Adam, therefore it was not the sin of the individual that brought the condemnation, just as it is not OUR ACTION that brings the righteousness (Jesus action did it). In that verse, both CONDEMNATION and THE FREE GIFT come to “man” (mankind) through the actions of another … I think that was Paul’s whole point to people that were attempting “works righteousness”.

All babies sinned when Adam ate the fruit in disobedience. Thats Gods view and verdict of it and its righteous.

 

[atpollard]

All babies sinned when Adam ate the fruit in disobedience. Thats Gods view and verdict of it and its righteous.

I agree, however, we are required to “contend” for the faith and “give a reason” for our hope (which means taking the time to honestly listen and offer an honest ‘defense’ [explanation, exegesis] for what we believe.).

@TomL selected a list of verses that he felt were important, and I am taking the time to discuss them, honestly (without merely arguing to score points) with him. Therefore it is important to ASK how he understands the verse (especially the critical words and phrases in it) and to offer a clear explanation of how I understand the verse (and those same critical words). This allows Tom to question my understanding and me an opportunity to question Tom’s understanding.

Even if NOBODY changes their mind (the expected outcome), at least we are starting from an accurate understanding of what each person believes … thus avoid attacking ‘strawmen’ of either side.

Proverbs 27:17 [ESV] Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another.