brightfame52
Well-known member
You still dont see it
Is the word all ever used in a restricted sense ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
Well-known member
You still cant see the word all is used in a restrictive sense. When scripture says, so all Israel shall be saved Rom 11:26
26 ;And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Does this mean all the jews in Israel shall be saved ? Then who is the remnant here Rom 9:27
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
Johann
Well-known member
Again, you need to deal with specific verses and not run to other contexts
You simply cannot exegete particular verses by such tactics
brightfame52
Well-known member
Again, I dont need to deal with anything save what I present
False
If you cannot deal with all the word, then you are failing to properly exegete scripture.
brightfame52
Well-known member
No its not false, I deal with the the theme of the thread, give my view for or against, thats debate, not answering 100 scriptures you torpedo towards me, im not the one.
Sorry unless you deal with the particular contexts you are not dealing with the issue.
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
you are just avoiding it
brightfame52
Well-known member
Again, the restrictive sense of the word all:
The word all is used in a restrictive sense here Micah 2:12
12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.
The word all here is restricted to a remnant. The All of Jacob to be assembled, is the same as the remnant of Israel
The word all is used in a restrictive sense here Micah 2:12
12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.
The word all here is restricted to a remnant. The All of Jacob to be assembled, is the same as the remnant of Israel
Jay
Active member
We there is that song by Elvis. It's very restrictive.
[Verse 1]
Uh, well, a-bless my soul, what's wrong with me?
I'm itchin' like a man on a fuzzy tree
My friends say I'm actin' wild as a bug
I'm in love, I'm all shook up
Mm, ooh, yeah, yeah-yay
[Verse 2]
Well, my hands are shaky, and my knees are weak
I can't seem to stand on my own two feet
Who do you thank when you have such luck?
I'm in love, I'm all shook up
Mm, ooh, yeah, yeah-yay
[Bridge]
Well, please don't ask me what's on my mind
I'm a little mixed up, but I feel fine
When I'm near the girl that I love best
My heart beats so it scares me to death
[Verse 3]
When she touched my hand, what a chill I got
Her lips are like a volcano that's hot
I'm proud to say that she's my buttercup
I'm in love, I'm all shook up
[Verse 1]
Uh, well, a-bless my soul, what's wrong with me?
I'm itchin' like a man on a fuzzy tree
My friends say I'm actin' wild as a bug
I'm in love, I'm all shook up
Mm, ooh, yeah, yeah-yay
[Verse 2]
Well, my hands are shaky, and my knees are weak
I can't seem to stand on my own two feet
Who do you thank when you have such luck?
I'm in love, I'm all shook up
Mm, ooh, yeah, yeah-yay
[Bridge]
Well, please don't ask me what's on my mind
I'm a little mixed up, but I feel fine
When I'm near the girl that I love best
My heart beats so it scares me to death
[Verse 3]
When she touched my hand, what a chill I got
Her lips are like a volcano that's hot
I'm proud to say that she's my buttercup
I'm in love, I'm all shook up
This is fallacious handling of the word of God.
Ignoring context
Which speaks of a future time of restoration after judgment
12, 13. An oracle of restoration, which has been inserted between the two denunciations, when the separate oracles were collected in writing. Micah promises restoration, when the judgment has done its work. The expulsion from the land (v. 10) shall not be permanent. 12. The sheep of Bozrah, etc.] better, ‘as sheep into a fold, as a flock into the midst of the pasture.’ The great noise is the noise of the joy at return. 13. Read the verbs throughout as perfect. The writer speaks as though what he promises had already taken place. The breaker] or, ‘deliverer’: they have been shut up as in a prison. One will come to open their way
J. R. Dummelow, ed., A Commentary on the Holy Bible (New York: The Macmillan Company, 1936), 581.
brightfame52
Well-known member
You still don't get it!
atpollard
Well-known member
Umm … John 6
[Jhn 6:44, 65 NKJV] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. ... 65 And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."
“No one can” = totally unable
Also … Romans 3
[Rom 3:11-12 NKJV] 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
“There is none” = no one does (which supports the verses claiming “no one can”)
[You and the lady in the meme need better reading glasses.]
brightfame52
Well-known member
You still dont get it, in the scripture the word all is almost always used in a limited restricted sense.
Johann
Well-known member
You are not here to debate, that's very evident.
The doctrine of unlimited atonement holds that Christ died for all people, not just a specific group (i.e., the elect). The following scriptural references provide evidence that atonement is not limited:
1. Christ Died for the World (πάντα, κόσμος)
John 1:29 – "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (τοῦ κόσμου)."
John 3:16 – "For God so loved the world (τὸν κόσμον) that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."
John 4:42 – "We ourselves have heard Him, and we know that this is indeed the Savior of the world (τοῦ κόσμου)."
1 John 2:2 – "And He Himself is the propitiation (ἱλασμός) for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world (ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου)."
These verses make clear that Jesus' atonement is not restricted to a predetermined group but extends to the entire world.
2. Christ Died for All (πάντας)
Romans 5:18 – "Through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men (πάντας ἀνθρώπους), so also through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men (πάντας ἀνθρώπους)."
2 Corinthians 5:14-15 – "For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all (πάντων), then all died; and He died for all (πάντας), that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for Him who died for them and rose again."
1 Timothy 2:4-6 – "Who desires all men (πάντας ἀνθρώπους) to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all (πάντων), the testimony given at the proper time."
Titus 2:11 – "For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men (πᾶσιν ἀνθρώποις)."
Hebrews 2:9 – "But we see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone (ὑπὲρ παντὸς)."
These passages emphasize that Christ’s atoning work is not restricted to a particular group, but extends to all humanity.
3. Christ Died Even for the Lost Who Reject Him
2 Peter 2:1 – "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them (ἀγοράσαντα αὐτοὺς), bringing upon themselves swift destruction."
This verse is particularly devastating to the doctrine of limited atonement because it shows that Christ "bought" (ἀγοράσαντα) those who perish in destruction.
Matthew 23:37 – "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling."
Christ expresses His desire to save people who ultimately rejected Him, proving that salvation was available to them.
4. Atonement Extended Even to Non-Believers
Acts 17:30 – "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to all men everywhere (πᾶσιν πανταχοῦ ἀνθρώποις) that they should repent."
1 Timothy 4:10 – "For to this end we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men (πάντων ἀνθρώπων), especially of believers."
This last verse distinguishes between Christ as the potential Savior of all and the actual salvation of believers, implying that atonement is available to all, but only effective for those who believe.
5. The Gospel Call Is Universal
Isaiah 53:6 – "All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all (כֻּלָּנוּ, LXX: πάντων) to fall on Him."
Romans 10:13 – "For whoever (πᾶς) calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Revelation 22:17 – "The Spirit and the Bride say, 'Come!' And let him who hears say, 'Come!' And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who desires take the water of life freely."
These verses demonstrate that salvation is offered universally, which is inconsistent with the idea that atonement is limited.
The cumulative weight of scripture demonstrates that Christ’s atoning work is not restricted to the elect alone, but was made available for all people. While not all accept it, the invitation to salvation is genuine and universal. The idea that Jesus' sacrifice is limited contradicts passages that explicitly affirm His atoning work extends to all men, the world, and those who perish.
Limited atonement refuted right here.
J.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Johann
Well-known member
Reply to what stands written-that salvation/atonement is not limited in scope.
Thanks.
J.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Ive done all that hundreds of times. The word all is used in a restricted sense, what is to keep debating about ?
