Is the word all ever used in a restricted sense ?

brightfame52 said:
They dont want to understand because they cant believe Jn 12:39

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

God is against them being converted, so they cannot believe, they doomed friend
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The could have at first but they lost their chance.

And I showed you the reason for vs. 40

All of this plays into the use of the word "therefore" as found in this verse. The only reason—the explicitly stated cause—for those who "could not believe" is their prior commitment to unbelief. They cannot now believe because they would not believe when given the chance. What John cites from Isaiah 6:10, in the following verse, is in that very context.
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Rowan said:
The could have at first but they lost their chance.

And I showed you the reason for vs. 40
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Jn 12:39

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
 
Rowan said:
Wrong, The Egyptians could not believe because they would not believe when given the chance.

When God judged the nation of Egypt, He did so by hardening the heart of the Pharaoh (Exodus 9:12). This caused the Egyptian ruler to be even more resistant to God, and that resulted in further plagues. Key to this fact is noting that Pharaoh had already been cruel and resistant and had in fact hardened His own heart first (Exodus 7:13, 7:22; 8:15; 8:19; 8:32). It is not until after the sixth plague that God is said to have actually "hardened the heart" of Pharaoh. This means that one way in which God judges willing disbelief is by perpetuating it (Proverbs 29:1). Those who stubbornly rebel against God may find themselves in a state where they cannot believe, as judgment for their earlier refusal to believe.

John's gospel has mentioned the famous "Suffering Servant" of Isaiah chapter 53. In that prophecy (Isaiah 53:1), Isaiah asks "who has believed what he heard from us?" The expected answer is, "no one," in the sense that the Messiah is broadly rejected by His own people and the world at large (Matthew 23:37; Romans 10:16–21).

All of this plays into the use of the word "therefore" as found in this verse. The only reason—the explicitly stated cause—for those who "could not believe" is their prior commitment to unbelief. They cannot now believe because they would not believe when given the chance. What John cites from Isaiah 6:10, in the following verse, is in that very context.

BibleRef
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This is a block their own sinful hearts have created. They don't want to hear from God, so whatever He says to them will fall on deaf ears. The people will not fully grasp the reality of their situation. Because they are stubborn, they will not trustingly turn to the Lord to be healed.

That's why we are told not to miss the day of our salvation.
 
brightfame52 said:
That scripture speaks of effectual atonement, every and all He died for shall believe in Him, so if one never believes in Him, they are exempt from His death, they were not His Sheep Jn 10:26-27

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

His Sheep whom He was lifted up for, become believers, followers, disciples
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So the atonement was offered to all but applied only to believers. That utterly destroyed the calvinist fairy tale of limited atonement. Excellent!
 
brightfame52 said:
Could those in Jn 12:39 believe in Christ ?
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Nevertheless, many did believed in Him. See verse 42.

(John 12:42) Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;
 
TibiasDad said:
They could, like some of the Pharisees did, have believed, just like those who haven’t believed as we have today. They didn’t believe, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t have believed.


Doug
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Thats totally against scripture, now accordig to Jn 12:39 could these believe in Jesus ? Jn 12:39

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
 
synergy said:
Nevertheless, many did believed in Him. See verse 42.

(John 12:42) Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue;
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Could these believe ? Jn 12:39

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

Could they use their freewill and believe ?
 
Johann said:
WHY couldn't they believe?

J.
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A perfectly legitimate question, and one which deserves study, which I have no doubt you have already done. And you already know what I am about to post. Calvinists believe it was because their name wasn't drawn in their God's Holy Lottery philosophy. That God, based on nothing a man does, chooses who can believe and who can not.

But when a man reads what is actually written in scriptures, they will find these truths.

Rom. 1: 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; "so that they are without excuse":

21 "Because" that, when they knew God, "they glorified him not as God", neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God "into an image made like to corruptible man", and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore (Because of this) God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

And again;

2 Thess. 2: 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; "because" they "received not" the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 "And for this cause" God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned "who believed not the truth", but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Indeed Johann, as you said in a previous post "I believe there's a lesson for us all here-"

Proverbs 1: 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

31 Therefore (Because of this) shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.


Why indeed.
 
Studyman said:
A perfectly legitimate question, and one which deserves study, which I have no doubt you have already done. And you already know what I am about to post. Calvinists believe it was because their name wasn't drawn in their God's Holy Lottery philosophy. That God, based on nothing a man does, chooses who can believe and who can not.

But when a man reads what is actually written in scriptures, they will find these truths.

Rom. 1: 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; "so that they are without excuse":

21 "Because" that, when they knew God, "they glorified him not as God", neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God "into an image made like to corruptible man", and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore (Because of this) God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

And again;

2 Thess. 2: 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; "because" they "received not" the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 "And for this cause" God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned "who believed not the truth", but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Indeed Johann, as you said in a previous post "I believe there's a lesson for us all here-"

Proverbs 1: 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

27 When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you.

28 Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me:

29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.

31 Therefore (Because of this) shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.

33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.


Why indeed.
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Well said, brother-letting the Scriptures speak for themselves through the Spirit is exactly the way it should be.

Johann.
 
brightfame52 said:
Now do you think that these in this verse could believe with their freewill ? Jn 12:39

39 therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
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S

Post in thread 'Is the word all ever used in a restricted sense ?'

Johann said:
WHY couldn't they believe?

J.
Click to expand...

A perfectly legitimate question, and one which deserves study, which I have no doubt you have already done. And you already know what I am about to post. Calvinists believe it was because their name wasn't drawn in their God's Holy Lottery philosophy. That God, based on nothing a man does, chooses who can believe and who can not.

But when a man reads what is actually written in scriptures, they will find these truths.

Rom. 1: 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that...
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brightfame52 said:
Thats totally against scripture, now accordig to Jn 12:39 could these believe in Jesus ? Jn 12:39

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Click to expand...
By that point, their hearts had already chosen not to believe; therefore God hardened them so that they would not be able to see and believe.

As C. S. Lewis once said, ‘we either say “Thy will be done” to God or God says “they will be done” to us. God doesn’t have to strive with us forever. If we continually reject him, he will accept our choice and leave us in our unbelief.

Doug
 

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