civic
Well-known member
Nope it’s about all the world
Is the word all ever used in a restricted sense ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Johann
Well-known member
I believe there's a lesson for us all here-
False Prophets and Teachers
2Pe 2:1 But [in those days] false prophets arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will subtly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2Pe 2:2 Many will follow their shameful ways, and because of them the way of truth will be maligned.
2Pe 2:3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false arguments and twisted doctrine. Their sentence [of condemnation which God has decreed] from a time long ago is not idle [but is still in force], and their destruction and deepening misery is not asleep [but is on its way].
2Pe 2:4 N1For if God did not [even] spare angels that sinned, but threw them into N2hell and sent them to pits of gloom to be kept [there] for judgment;
2Pe 2:5 and if He did not spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought [the judgment of] a flood upon the world of the ungodly; [Genesis 6-8; 1Pe_3:20]
2Pe 2:6 and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; [Gen_19:24]
2Pe 2:7 and if He rescued righteous N1Lot, who was tormented by the immoral conduct of unprincipled and ungodly men [Gen_19:16, Gen_19:29]
2Pe 2:8 (for that just man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by what he saw and heard of their lawless acts),
2Pe 2:9 then [in light of the fact that all this is true, be sure that] the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trial, and how to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,
2Pe 2:10 and especially N1those who indulge in the corrupt passions of the sin nature, and despise authority. Presumptuous and reckless, self-willed and arrogant [creatures, despising the majesty of the Lord], they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties,
2Pe 2:11 whereas even angels who are superior in might and power do not bring a reviling (defaming) accusation against them before the Lord. [Jud_1:8]
2Pe 2:12 But these [false teachers], like unreasoning animals, [mere] creatures of instinct, born to be captured and destroyed, reviling things they do not understand, will also perish in their own corruption [in their destroying they will be destroyed],
2Pe 2:13 suffering wrong [destined for punishment] as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a delight to revel in the daytime [living luxuriously]. They are stains and blemishes [on mankind], reveling in their N1deceptions even as they feast with you.
2Pe 2:14 They have eyes full of adultery, constantly looking for sin, enticing and luring away unstable souls. Having hearts trained in greed, [they are] children of a curse.
2Pe 2:15 Abandoning the straight road [that is, the right way to live], they have gone astray; they have followed the way of [the false teacher] Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the reward of wickedness; [Num_22:5, Num_22:7]
2Pe 2:16 but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a mute donkey spoke with a man's voice and restrained the prophet's madness. [Num_22:21-31]
2Pe 2:17 These [false teachers] are springs without water and mists driven by a tempest, for whom is reserved the gloom of black darkness.
2Pe 2:18 For uttering arrogant words of vanity [pompous words disguised to sound scholarly or profound, but meaning nothing and containing no spiritual truth], they beguile and lure using lustful desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 They promise them liberty, when they themselves are the slaves of depravity--for by whatever anyone is defeated and overcome, to that [person, thing, philosophy, or concept] he is continually enslaved.
2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world by [personal] knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, their last condition has become worse for them than the first.
2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have [personally] known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to have turned back from the holy commandment [verbally] handed on to them.
2Pe 2:22 The thing spoken of in the true proverb has happened to them, "THE DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow is washed only to wallow [again] in the mire." [Pro_26:11]
AMP.
J.
brightfame52
Well-known member
God was never going to save them, they were never going to repent, God had gave Noah specific instructions on building the ark, and who would board it, it was never designed or purposed for anyone or anything else save the saved occupants
brightfame52
Well-known member
He destroyed the ungodly
Nathan
Member
I have read several studies on the Nephilim and the times before the flood as described in Genesis 6. It seems quite a few scholars and pastors are of the view that it’s because human genetics/DNA became corrupted by the intermingling of fallen angels and sinful women that God destroyed man by a great flood.
The true bloodline was very important as Jesus came thru it.
The true bloodline was very important as Jesus came thru it.
civic
Well-known member
In his second epistle, Peter provides several past examples of God’s judgment, with one of them being the flood described in the book of Genesis. In referencing the flood, Peter mentions Noah as “a preacher of righteousness” (2 Peter 2:5).
The Greek word for preacher is better translated “herald” and refers to an official entrusted with making public proclamations, especially those that are of a transcendent nature. Although we aren’t given the exact content of what Noah preached to those around him, other than the mention of “righteousness,” we can get an idea by examining a couple of Bible passages.
Noah’s world is described as being “corrupt in the sight of God, and the earth was filled with violence. God looked on the earth, and behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth” (Genesis 6:11–12). In His grace, God commissioned Noah to build an ark to preserve himself and his family from the upcoming judgment by water (verse 14).
The long time (possibly 120 years; see Genesis 6:3) it took for Noah and his family to build the ark naturally afforded him the opportunity to share with those around him the reason for the ark’s construction. Apocryphal books such as Jubilees and works like Josephus’ Antiquities contain vague mentions of Noah’s preaching, and one work from ancient history—the Sibylline Oracles—describes Noah’s preaching in this way:
“Single among all men, most just and true,
Was the most faithful Noah, full of care
For noblest works. And to him God himself
From heaven thus spoke: ‘Noah, be of good cheer
In thyself and to all the people preach
Repentance, so that they may all be saved.
But if, with shameless soul, they heed me not
The whole race I will utterly destroy”’ (Book I, lines 155–161).
The only portion of the Bible that alludes to Noah’s subject matter is Hebrews 11:7: “By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith” (NASB, emphasis added).
According to 1 Peter 3:19–20, it was Jesus Himself who, in the Spirit, preached “to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.” We take this to mean that, when Noah preached righteousness, he did so by the power of the Spirit of Christ: that is, it was the message of Christ, delivered in the power of Christ, that Noah proclaimed. The ungodly men of Noah’s day had a chance to repent and be saved as Christ preached to them spiritually through Noah. Unfortunately, they rebelled against the truth, refused the ark, and drowned in the flood.
In addition to Noah’s proclamations to the unbelieving world of his day was his “wordless preaching.” In the very construction of the ark, Noah bore witness to righteousness. Every hammer blow, every pounding of a nail was a call to repentance and a declaration that judgment was coming.
Jesus called out the fact that Noah’s contemporaries ignored the message that would have saved them. At the same time, the Lord warned us of making the same mistake: “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all” (Luke 17:26–27).
The point of Peter referencing Noah and others like him in his second epistle is that, if God did not spare the ancient world who rejected Noah’s warnings, how much less can He be expected to spare those who dismiss His calls to repentance today?Got?
hope this helps !!!
Nathan
Member
Noah's “wordless preaching” I like that.
Although 2 Peter 2:5 calls Noah a preacher of righteousness, the Bible does not contain any conclusive evidence that Noah preached a warning of the coming flood. He led an exemplary life, and spent several years building a giant boat in a place that had never even seen rain fall, let alone a flood. My guess is that he was forthright with all who asked why he was doing so and that a great many people knew of his reasoning, but as to whether he actually spent any time trying to convince people to join him, we have no Biblical evidence.
Grace thru Faith
brightfame52
Well-known member
@civic
And he was a preacher of righteousness, he preached Christ. He knew about Christ like Enoch did before him his grandfather if Im not mistaken. Enoch preached about the @nd Coming according to Jude Jude 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Thats an aspect of righteousness Judgment Acts 17:30
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Noah could have been preaching about that, his Grand father did
And he was a preacher of righteousness, he preached Christ. He knew about Christ like Enoch did before him his grandfather if Im not mistaken. Enoch preached about the @nd Coming according to Jude Jude 1:14-15
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Thats an aspect of righteousness Judgment Acts 17:30
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Noah could have been preaching about that, his Grand father did
Horatius
Member
It changes with different translations.
In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. NIV
In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that the whole empire should be registered. CSB
At that time the Roman emperor, Augustus, decreed that a census should be taken throughout the Roman Empire. NLT
This verse uses the common metaphorical sense of "the earth," in this case meaning the entire Roman Empire.
Rowan
Active member
God has personally made known the gospel (the “good news”) to all creatures under heaven since the very beginning of time. The Lord has sown the knowledge of Himself and the call of the gospel into the hearts of all people, making His appeal for their reconciliation. He has made known the good news to everyone through His creation.
Obviously, people are not born knowing about Jesus in specific, or about His death, burial, and resurrection. But, specific knowledge of Jesus and His work on the cross is not all that the gospel entails. Christ’s work is both the foundation and fulfillment of the “gospel,” which is the “good news” that has been made known from the very beginning. The good news is that God is gracious to save whoever repents of their wrong doing and places their trust in Him. By faith anyone may be forgiven and credited as righteous (Heb. 11; Rom. 4:22-24). All may be saved by God’s grace because He is free to show mercy to whomever He pleases (Rom. 9:15). This truth has been a reality from the beginning of creation, not just since the first century.
The Old Testament saints were saved through the gospel, and they had no specific knowledge of Jesus and his death, burial or resurrection. This was a part of “the mystery of Christ” that had been hidden for generations (1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 3:3-5). They knew God was the only one that could save them from their sin, but they did not know how He was going to do it while maintaining His justice. Jesus and His work on the cross was a “shadow” and a “mystery” that had not yet been fully revealed (Rom. 16:25-26).
What the Old Testament saints did not realize was that the God they knew was none other than the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Christ was (and still is) the “I Am” (John 8:58) that freed them from Egypt. Christ was the One that spoke to them, and gave them the gospel, and the One in whom they put their faith. No one has seen or heard from the Father except the Son (John 1:18; 5:37; 6:46).
The Son is the complete and authoritative revelation of God to this world. In other words, everything we know about God must be filtered through what has been revealed through Jesus. Jesus taught us that the gospel has always been the same, in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. God gave His word that sin leads to death.
God gave His word that He would provide a way for salvation. God gave His word that He will forgive mankind for their sins and credit them with righteousness. How can God do all this? Through His Son, Jesus, the Word!
Leighton Flowers. God's Provision For All: A Defense of God's Goodness
Obviously, people are not born knowing about Jesus in specific, or about His death, burial, and resurrection. But, specific knowledge of Jesus and His work on the cross is not all that the gospel entails. Christ’s work is both the foundation and fulfillment of the “gospel,” which is the “good news” that has been made known from the very beginning. The good news is that God is gracious to save whoever repents of their wrong doing and places their trust in Him. By faith anyone may be forgiven and credited as righteous (Heb. 11; Rom. 4:22-24). All may be saved by God’s grace because He is free to show mercy to whomever He pleases (Rom. 9:15). This truth has been a reality from the beginning of creation, not just since the first century.
The Old Testament saints were saved through the gospel, and they had no specific knowledge of Jesus and his death, burial or resurrection. This was a part of “the mystery of Christ” that had been hidden for generations (1 Cor. 2:7; Eph. 3:3-5). They knew God was the only one that could save them from their sin, but they did not know how He was going to do it while maintaining His justice. Jesus and His work on the cross was a “shadow” and a “mystery” that had not yet been fully revealed (Rom. 16:25-26).
What the Old Testament saints did not realize was that the God they knew was none other than the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Christ was (and still is) the “I Am” (John 8:58) that freed them from Egypt. Christ was the One that spoke to them, and gave them the gospel, and the One in whom they put their faith. No one has seen or heard from the Father except the Son (John 1:18; 5:37; 6:46).
The Son is the complete and authoritative revelation of God to this world. In other words, everything we know about God must be filtered through what has been revealed through Jesus. Jesus taught us that the gospel has always been the same, in both the Old Testament and the New Testament. God gave His word that sin leads to death.
God gave His word that He would provide a way for salvation. God gave His word that He will forgive mankind for their sins and credit them with righteousness. How can God do all this? Through His Son, Jesus, the Word!
Leighton Flowers. God's Provision For All: A Defense of God's Goodness
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Whether he still loves them or not is 1) unknowable, for the Bible says nothing about God’s love in the afterlife, and 2) it doesn’t matter because those in hell have refused to accept the love of God as demonstrated in Christ.
The issue with your understanding, from my perspective and experience with you, is that you seem to think that if God loves, that that love cannot be rejected. In my humble opinion, that is a weak definition of love. We are taught to love people even when they despise us and do all manner of evil against us. That they refuse our love doesn’t mean we aren’t supposed to love them.
Love rejected still exists, but cannot do what it seeks to do because it is rejected without repentance. God does not force his love on anyone.
Doug
brightfame52
Well-known member
@TibiasDad
Thats an cowardly excuse because you dont want to look bad saying God loves them burning in hell and He put them there, Gods Love is an immutable trait of His Person, it doesnt change in the afterlife, nor in the before life since He loved the objects of His Love b4 they were born in Christ,
Jn 17:23-24
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Rom 8:39
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
οὔτε ὕψωμα οὔτε βάθος οὔτε τις κτίσις ἑτέρα δυνήσεται ἡμᾶς χωρίσαι ἀπὸ τῆς ἀγάπης τοῦ θεοῦ τῆς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ τῷ κυρίῳ ἡμῶν
Love of God here has the definite article denoting a particular exclusive Love only in Christ Jesus, outside of Christ Jesus.like the nonelect, there is no Love of God for a person,
Jer 31:3
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
So I have nothing else to say to you about this subject, for I perceive not in you an understanding of Gods Love and God Himself.
Thats an cowardly excuse because you dont want to look bad saying God loves them burning in hell and He put them there, Gods Love is an immutable trait of His Person, it doesnt change in the afterlife, nor in the before life since He loved the objects of His Love b4 they were born in Christ,
Jn 17:23-24
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
Rom 8:39
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
οὔτε ὕψωμα οὔτε βάθος οὔτε τις κτίσις ἑτέρα δυνήσεται ἡμᾶς χωρίσαι ἀπὸ τῆς ἀγάπης τοῦ θεοῦ τῆς ἐν Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ τῷ κυρίῳ ἡμῶν
Love of God here has the definite article denoting a particular exclusive Love only in Christ Jesus, outside of Christ Jesus.like the nonelect, there is no Love of God for a person,
Jer 31:3
3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
So I have nothing else to say to you about this subject, for I perceive not in you an understanding of Gods Love and God Himself.
TibiasDad
Well-known member
In the same way that an omniscient God can “forget” our sins, a God who is love can love those who do not love him.
Love “seeks not its own” benefit, but allows freedom in the creature it loves, including freedom to reject. One’s rejection of love does not change that they are loved. God’s love allows for it to be rejected. Otherwise there is no guilt if there is no love.
You take the truth and twist it to fit your narrative. There is the fact that he is writing to and about believers, but that says nothing about his love for those yet outside of Christ. Your conclusions are assumed, not stated.
Secondly, the love of God, expresses the particular type of love as opposed to other forms of love. The genitive grammatically demands the use of the article.
Doug
synergy
Well-known member
Let me take the same liberties to restrict the word "all" as you did. In the same Spirit of Calvinist fairy tales, I can say "all" is restricted to all Nazis. That's in line with the calvinist spirit of restricting meanings of words. Argue with that and you will argue with yourself.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Im through with it with you on this matter
brightfame52
Well-known member
That scripture speaks of effectual atonement, every and all He died for shall believe in Him, so if one never believes in Him, they are exempt from His death, they were not His Sheep Jn 10:26-27Let me take the same liberties to restrict the word "all" as you did. In the same Spirit of Calvinist fairy tales, I can say "all" is restricted to all Nazis. That's in line with the calvinist spirit of restricting meanings of words. Argue with that and you will argue with yourself.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
His Sheep whom He was lifted up for, become believers, followers, disciples
Rowan
Active member
They cannot understand because they don't want to understand. It's their choice, believe in Jesus or remain in their sin.
brightfame52
Well-known member
They dont want to understand because they cant believe Jn 12:39
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God is against them being converted, so they cannot believe, they doomed friend
Rowan
Active member
Wrong, The Egyptians could not believe because they would not believe when given the chance.
When God judged the nation of Egypt, He did so by hardening the heart of the Pharaoh (Exodus 9:12). This caused the Egyptian ruler to be even more resistant to God, and that resulted in further plagues. Key to this fact is noting that Pharaoh had already been cruel and resistant and had in fact hardened His own heart first (Exodus 7:13, 7:22; 8:15; 8:19; 8:32). It is not until after the sixth plague that God is said to have actually "hardened the heart" of Pharaoh. This means that one way in which God judges willing disbelief is by perpetuating it (Proverbs 29:1). Those who stubbornly rebel against God may find themselves in a state where they cannot believe, as judgment for their earlier refusal to believe.
John's gospel has mentioned the famous "Suffering Servant" of Isaiah chapter 53. In that prophecy (Isaiah 53:1), Isaiah asks "who has believed what he heard from us?" The expected answer is, "no one," in the sense that the Messiah is broadly rejected by His own people and the world at large (Matthew 23:37; Romans 10:16–21).
All of this plays into the use of the word "therefore" as found in this verse. The only reason—the explicitly stated cause—for those who "could not believe" is their prior commitment to unbelief. They cannot now believe because they would not believe when given the chance. What John cites from Isaiah 6:10, in the following verse, is in that very context.
BibleRef
brightfame52
Well-known member
They dont want to understand because they cant believe Jn 12:39
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
God is against them being converted, so they cannot believe, they doomed friend
