Is the word all ever used in a restricted sense ?

brightfame52

brightfame52

Well-known member
Matt 10:22

And ye shall be hated of all [pas] men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Now is all here in this verse used in a restricted sense or does it comprehend all men without exception ? Will there be any exceptions to this General rule ?

Or is it as some arminians always say as they deny limited atonement, all means all, meaning all without exception !


What about Jn 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all[ πᾶς] men unto me. Will there be any exceptions to this General rule ?
 
Matthew 10:16-22 (KJV) 16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against [their] parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Jesus is talking to His disciples—His followers. This passage can also be read as prophecy for the end times; therefore, Jesus’ words apply to His followers today as well. Christians will be persecuted by “men,” but believers will persevere and endure to the end; they will be saved.
 
Selah said:
Matthew 10:16-22 (KJV) 16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. 17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you. 21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against [their] parents, and cause them to be put to death. 22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Jesus is talking to His disciples—His followers. This passage can also be read as prophecy for the end times; therefore, Jesus’ words apply to His followers today as well. Christians will be persecuted by “men,” but believers will persevere and endure to the end; they will be saved.
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Right on.

Jesus is describing to His twelve chosen apostles just how costly it will be for them to take His message into the world. He is describing a time after His death, resurrection, and return to heaven. He has said that the apostles will be arrested, flogged, and dragged before various courts. Worse, they can expect family members to turn against them or to turn against those who believe their message (Matthew 10:17–21).

Now Jesus says it even more bluntly: because of their association with Christ, these men will experience widespread, open hatred. This does not mean the apostles—or Christians—will be hated by literally every single non-believing person. Some would come to faith in Jesus in response to the gospel of His kingdom. Most, though, would not. It does mean that all kinds of people would hate the apostles: some for the content of their teaching about Jesus and others for the trouble that teaching stirred up wherever the apostles went (1 Peter 4:3–4; John 15:18–20).

History and tradition tell us that each of the apostles sent out by Jesus was persecuted and jailed. Most were killed for bearing His name. Still, Jesus now says that those of them who endure to the end will be saved. He does not mean that they will escape death at the hands of the persecutors. He means that by enduring all the way to the end of their lives in faithfulness to this mission He is giving them, they will enter immediately into salvation in His kingdom. From BibleRef.
 
brightfame52 said:
Nothing has changed, read previous
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Joh 12:46 I have come as a Light into the world, so that whoever believes in Me [whoever cleaves to and trusts in and relies on Me] may not continue to live in darkness.
Joh 12:47 If anyone hears My teachings and fails to observe them [does not keep them, but disregards them], it is not I who judges him. For I have not come to judge and to condemn and to pass sentence and to inflict penalty on the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 Anyone who rejects Me and persistently sets Me at naught, refusing to accept My teachings, has his judge [however]; for the [very] message that I have spoken will itself judge and convict him at the last day.
Joh 12:49 This is because I have never spoken on My own authority or of My own accord or as self-appointed, but the Father Who sent Me has Himself given Me orders [concerning] what to say and what to tell. [Deu_18:18-19]
Joh 12:50 And I know that His commandment is (means) eternal life. So whatever I speak, I am saying [exactly] what My Father has told Me to say and in accordance with His instructions.


But to save the world (all' hina sōsō ton kosmon). Purpose clause again (cf. hina krinō, just before) with hina and first aorist active of sōzō. Exaggerated contrast again, “not so much to judge, but also to save.” See Jhn_3:17 for same contrast. And yet Jesus does judge the world inevitably (Jhn_8:15.; Jhn_9:39), but his primary purpose is to save the world (Jhn_3:16). See close of the Sermon on the Mount for the same insistence on hearing and keeping (obeying) the words of Jesus (Mat_7:24, Mat_7:26) and also Luk_11:28.




1) "And if any man hear my words," (kai ean tis mou akouse ton hrematon) "And if anyone hears my words," summarizing His previous teachings, focusing attention, on the heart of His message of redemption, accountability, and judgement.

2) "And believe not," (kai me phulakse) "And keeps or guards them not,'' Joh_8:21; Joh_8:24.

3) ''I judge him not:" (ego ou krino auton) "I do not judge him,'' at this time, for I am come this time, not to judge, but to seek, and suffer, and save, Luk_19:10; Joh_5:45; Joh_8:15; Joh_8:26.

4) "For I came not to judge the world," (ou gar elthon hina krino ton kosmon) "For I came not in order that I might judge the world," the present world order, Joh_3:16-17.

5) "But to save the world." (all' hina soso ton kosmon) "But in order (for the purpose) that I might save the world," both mankind and the fallen, groaning universe that is also under the curse of sin, Rom_8:20-23; Act_3:20-21. Col_1:20; 1Co_15:24-28.

You still have it backward friend.

J.
 
brightfame52 said:
@Johann



Nothing changed, you wasting up data also
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We are diligently studying the Scriptures, much like the noble Bereans, yet you provide no solid exegesis—only a few repetitive statements.
You are quoting isolated verses and I put it in context for you, and you consider this as wasting data?

J.
 
Johann said:
We are diligently studying the Scriptures, much like the noble Bereans, yet you provide no solid exegesis—only a few repetitive statements.
You are quoting isolated verses and I put it in context for you, and you consider this as wasting data?

J.
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I study the scriptures diligently, have been for the last 4 or 5 decades. All this you presenting, I have dealt with thousands of times
 
brightfame52 said:
I study the scriptures diligently, have been for the last 4 or 5 decades. All this you presenting, I have dealt with thousands of times
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No worries, I'll continue to rebut and refute you not for your sake, but for the readers.

1742762147469.png

(AKA "Total Inability" - a concept NOT found in the Bible anywhere!)

J.
 
brightfame52 said:
@Johann



Nothing changed, you wasting up data also
Click to expand...
The Bible says ... Jesus died for all, loves all, and wants all men to be saved.

But Calvinism says ... Jesus died only for the elect, loves only the elect, and only wanted the elect to be saved.


John 3:16-17: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." [Calvinist version: "The world/whoever" means "mankind/the elect from all over the world." Most of us would think - and rightly so - that this verse is an instruction on how anyone can be saved, that anyone who believes will be saved. But in Calvinism, it's not an instruction on how to be saved because not everyone can be saved; it's merely a statement informing us of how the elect are saved: the elect will believe and not perish.]

John 5:24: "... whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned ..." [Calvinist version: Only the elect can "hear and believe," and so only they will be given eternal life. Once again, not an instruction, just a statement.]

Titus 2:11: "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men." [Calvinist version: But only the elected people will be able to see that grace and accept that salvation. Sure, it "appears" to the non-elect, but they can't see it because God blinds their eyes and hardens their hearts because He predestined them to hell. (Question: Why would God need to blind and harden people that were created to be unable to see and believe from the very beginning anyway?)]

1 Corinthians 15:22: "For as in Adam all die, so as in Christ all will be made alive." [Calvinist version: Calvinists assume that the "in Christ" people are those predestined to be saved. However, Ephesians 1:13 tells us how we become "in Christ: "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit." It's not that there are elected people God predestined to save and causes to believe; it's that anyone who believes becomes "in Christ" and will be saved. Once we believe, and anyone can, we become part of the "in Christ" group, the group that God predestined to take to heaven. God chose the destination of the "in Christ" group, but we choose whether to be part of that group or not.]

1 Timothy 2:3-6: "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, who gave himself as a ransom for all men ..." [Calvinist version: Just because God wants all men to be saved doesn't mean that all men can be saved, and "a ransom for all men" really just means "for all kinds of men, for mankind, for all the elect."]

1 Timothy 4:10: "... that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe." [Calvinist version: Once again, "all men" doesn't mean that salvation is actually available to all individual people, just to all kinds of people, the elect from all nations. However, it would be quite redundant if "all men" and "those who believe" both mean "the elect": "... who is the Savior of the elect, and especially of the elect."]

Romans 5:18: "Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men." [Once again, Calvi-Jesus didn't die for "all men," just for "all kinds of men, mankind." But non-Calvi-Jesus (Jesus as seen in the Bible when read plainly and clearly) died for everyone's sins, to justify us all and offer all of us eternal life. But we choose to accept it or reject it.]

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." [Calvinist version: "Everyone who calls" doesn't mean everyone can call. "Everyone who calls" means only the elect because only the elect can/will call on the Lord.]


This first point alone is all you need to see how twisted and destructive Calvinism is.

To make Scripture fit their view, Calvinists say that "all men" and "whosoever" and "the world" really mean "just the elect" or "all KINDS of people" ... but not ALL individual people. Lots of verses to twist. If it was just one verse, I could be more understanding of them getting it wrong. But it's many. Scripture repeatedly, consistently tells us Jesus died to save all, that He paid for all men's sins so that all could live. And then Calvinists go and repeatedly, consistently twist each verse to mean "only the elect, from all nations."

[However, Calvinists misinterpret our belief of "Jesus died for all men, to save all people," accusing us of saying "all people will be saved," of universalism. But that's not what we're saying. We're saying He died for all men's sins to offer all men eternal life, but we have to choose if we will accept it or reject it. But since Calvinists think we don't get a choice, that we can't reject Jesus's sacrifice, and that Jesus died only for those going to heaven (the elect), they think we're saying "all people are going to heaven" when we say "Jesus died for all people." And since all people clearly don't go to heaven, then it must mean (in Calvinism, according to their presuppositions) that Jesus didn't die for all. And so when the Bible says "all men," they reinterpret it as "the elect." What a mess it makes when you deny the biblical truth of free-will, that God gave us all the right and responsibility to decide if we want Jesus as Lord and Savior, or not!]


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Amazing, astonishing-isn't it?!

It's like---

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J.
 
brightfame52 said:
You aint doing nothing really
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I firmly believe that, with God's help and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, He is accomplishing an amazing work. Let it be clear—I am neither resorting to name-calling nor overstepping any boundaries. However, Calvinistic teachings must be exposed, as they serve as a hindrance to young believers who have been indoctrinated by these lifeless doctrines.

J.
 
Johann said:
I firmly believe that, with God's help and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, He is accomplishing an amazing work. Let it be clear—I am neither resorting to name-calling nor overstepping any boundaries. However, Calvinistic teachings must be exposed, as they serve as a hindrance to young believers who have been indoctrinated by these lifeless doctrines.

J.
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You on here using up these good folks data. BTW Tulip is the Gospel
 
brightfame52 said:
Nothing has changed, read previous
Click to expand...
No need

Clearly, any unbeliever is a part of the world which Christ came to save

John 12:47 (LEB) — 47 And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I will not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world.


And you just run from the fact.
 
The word all is used in a restrictive sense here Micah 2:12

12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.

The word all here is restricted to a remnant.
 
brightfame52 said:
The word all is used in a restrictive sense here Micah 2:12

12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of the multitude of men.

The word all here is restricted to a remnant.
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I believe you are running away from the elect and want to concentrate on the remnant of Israel now?

Late here in South Africa, will answer tomorrow, God willing.

J.
 

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