brightfame52
Active Member
Okay exegete each one and prove it, You not going to do it, but yet you drop them off on someone else to do it, thats sad
Is persuasion even necessary in Calvinism ?
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brightfame52
Active Member
Thats no exegete of scripture. Also like I told you before Jn 20:31 is talking about the Sheep, and the regenerated. Anyone with an ounce of understanding knows scripture isnt written to people dead in sin . Scripture is written to the regenerate that they may believe and have life through His Name.
What is there to address? Not one of them refer to regeneration yet you accuse me of presumption.
Regeneration is the process, not life itself. Dead things do not choose to live. To be born. Did you choose to be born physically? Why do you assume you chose to be born Spiritually?
All you offer is denial. I had expected as much, and you confirm it.
Have you dealt with the fact that life was received upon believing, and thus the previous condition must have been one of death. One who has been regenerated is not in a state of death but of life and so your theology is in error.
BTW the gospel as found in scripture is to be preached to all men, that would include the unregenerate
Your assumptions are simply not biblical and your handling of scripture poor
Regeneration makes alive
Instead of employing the rational of men, and conflating physical and spiritual death, why do you not heed scripture?
John 20:31 (NASB95) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
What must one do to have the life seen in this verse?
If one did not have this life, what must have been the state he was in previous to believing.
BTW you ignored these facts
Um are you unaware regeneration speaks of making spiritually alive?
Are you also unaware Regeneration makes one a child of God?
That regeneration is a spiritual resurrection?
In doing so, you ignored all the verses. Some of which Calvinists themselves appeal to as examples of regeneration.
Exactly. It's the process not life itself. So if one believes, regeneration has already occurred. No one believes yet is still dead in trespasses and sins. No one chooses to be made alive. Dead things do not choose life. Unless, of course, you have a example? Did you choose to be born? Can someone in the grave choose to come back to life?
atpollard
Active Member
I fixed that for you.
In Calvinism ... you are just guaranteed that however skilled or clumsy your effort ... "as many as were ordained to eternal live" WILL BELIEVE! [Acts 13:48] God does the heavy lifting. We just need to be obedient to planting the seeds [Matthew 13] and watering as God brings the increase [1 Corinthians 3:5-7] in the good soil that God prepared by opening the heart [Acts 16:14].
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civic
Active Member
Interesting that you mentioned the seed/sower parable. Think about this all the seeds had life and sprouted. And only one persevered. This aligns with all the warning passages about remaining faithful, bearing fruit, finishing the race, having your lamps filled, being ready, etc.......
I have yet to find anyone that wants to address this point. And I read on another forum
where you might not address it immediately but the Lord reminds you to think about it and not forget it. It was in Reverends thread. And as you know I stand with you on PSA. Most of us do not want to have are beliefs challenged and be open to other views or correction but we draw the line in the sand and refuse to see the other sides arguments. I know you are different and open and that is highly commendable.Its a matter of the heart in the parable of the sower and each soil had life from the seed and sprouted.
Faith and unbelief are the keys. Think of Gods chosen/elect Israel.
Luke 8:13 (UASV) — 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.
Jeremiah 4:3, and Hosea 10:12 say the following,
For thus saith the LORD to the men of Judah and Jerusalem, Break up your fallow ground, and sow not among thorns.
Jeremiah 4:3
Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you. Hosea 10:12
Both of these verses say that WE are to prepare the soil of our hearts! It is WE who do the plowing.
hope this helps !!!
Johann
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
You havent proven nothing, but you dump off 100 verses on someone else. You go by sound bites, then demnad others to exegete to prove your sound bites wrong, without you doing nothing.
atpollard
Active Member
Now you have.
Matthew 13:3-9, 18-23 [ESV]
3 And he told them many things in parables, saying: "A sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, 6 but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. 7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. 8 Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears, let him hear."
18 "Hear then the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path. 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away. 22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty."
First a small 'nit pick' ... the birds stole one of the seeds, as in ...
- "And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." - 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 [ESV]
On the other hand, note that all soils received the EXACT SAME completely sufficient seed ... so there was no difference in the PLANTER, or the SEED or the PLANTING.
Let's start with what SCRIPTURE states went wrong:
- (path) the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart.
- (rocky) when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
- (thorns) cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful.
- (good soil) bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.
How about this: What makes GOOD SOIL good?
- Does the soil choose to break up the hard path and till the soil to loosen itself, or does the FARMER do that?
- Does the rocky soil spit out the rocks, or does the FARMER carry the rocks out of the field and pile them into a wall at the perimeter?
- Does the field kill its own weeds, or does the FARMER burn the weeds before planting and how the field as the crop grows?
- Ezekiel 11:19-20 [ESV] And I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in my statutes and keep my rules and obey them. And they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
- Ezekiel 36:25-27 [ESV] I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.
- Acts 2:37 [ESV] Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"
- Acts 16:14 [ESV] One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.
The "warning passages" are for the Good Soil ... the HEART with "ears to hear" the warning. The "warnings" to the bad soil are like "pearls cast before swine" ... twice blind.
You are running yet again
You never respond to objection
You never address scripture which is opposed to your views
you were asked and notified
You did not respond to it
Running yet again as is your methodology
brightfame52
Active Member
One needs to have eternal life in order to believe, thats why Jesus gives the elect eternal life, so they can know/believe in God the True and His Son Jesus Christ Jn 17:2-3
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 ;And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
As stated, you flop down scripture without no explaining how you make your point, you just burden people to win a debate
Sorry but again you twist scripture
John 3:14–15 (LEB) — 14 And just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, thus it is necessary that the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.”
John 3:16 (LEB) — 16 For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.
John 5:39–40 (LEB) — 39 You search the scriptures because you think that you have eternal life in them, and it is these that testify about me. 40 And you are not willing to come to me so that you may have life.
John 6:40 (LEB) — 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks at the Son and believes in him would have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Your handling of scripture is absolutely absurd.
Amen!!
Can you deal with the fact that life was received upon believing, and thus the previous condition must have been one of spiritual death. But One who has been regenerated is not in a state of spiritual death but of life
John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Calvinists typically avoid a response.
Where have you addressed the verse or the questions
Regeneration makes alive
Instead of employing the rational of men, and conflating physical and spiritual death, why do you not heed scripture?
John 20:31 (NASB95) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
What must one do to have the life seen in this verse?
If one did not have this life, what must have been the state he was in previous to believing.
BTW you ignored these facts
Um are you unaware regeneration speaks of making spiritually alive?
Are you also unaware Regeneration makes one a child of God?
That regeneration is a spiritual resurrection?
In doing so, you ignored all the verses. Some of which Calvinists themselves appeal to as examples of regeneration.
brightfame52
Active Member
One cannot believe if they are in the flesh, because that pleases God , but they [unregenerate] cannot please God Rom 8:8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
So those verses apply to the regenerate
brightfame52
Active Member
Jn 20:31 is for the regenerate sheep, that they may have life Jn 10:10Can you deal with the fact that life was received upon believing, and thus the previous condition must have been one of spiritual death. But One who has been regenerated is not in a state of spiritual death but of life
John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Calvinists typically avoid a response.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they[The sheep] might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
civic
Active Member
where does the bible define regeneration as a "process" or a greek lexicon ?
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