You as a mortal cannot even come close to comprehending Gods thoughts on matters. Men have twisted them into oblivion though.
Is Jesus God?
- Thread starter Keiw1
- Start date
Wrangler
Well-known member
See what I mean, @Keiw1? He cannot use logic. John 1:14 also does not say Jesus is God.
It's amazing that what is nowhere to be found in Scripture is presented by trinitarians as the central theme in Scriptre. There simply is no verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. If there were such a verse, it would be the most quoted verse in Scripture by those who claim one’s salvation depends on believing it. The concept of the trinity is so important that in 66 books, it is not mentioned once!
The absence of such a verse means nothing. So, they go heavy into eigesesis, reading into whatever they want into the unitarian text. Consider the Sh'ma, the most important commandment.
4“Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh alone! 5Therefore you are to love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
Deut 6:4-5 (REV)
The ones in darkness believe Jesus' name is above Gods name as well. Nothing is above God or anything about him.
Wrangler
Well-known member
There is the Lord Jesus who sits at the right hand of the Lord God. "God" is not his name. YHWH is his name.
15Furthermore, God said to Moses, “Tell the children of Israel this: ‘Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered throughout all generations.
Ex 3:15 (REV)
That's because BOTH John 1:1 and John 1:14are EQUALLY inspired.
Yep, try using logic.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Equally inspired to say Jesus is not God.
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC, to all,
@Wrangler, you said, "1 Cor 15:24-28 Christianity's end game. Juxtaposition of "Jesus" with "God" is ubiquitious and these verses shows that in the end, Jesus is still not God. " 101G disagree with your assertion. Just as you use you in your footer, John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." is this not a Juxtaposition? of side-by-side comparison, with the conjunction "and" showing the same, or similarities, or maybe differences as you may .... THINK?.... (smile). just as James 1:27 states, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
is God "and" the Father a Juxtaposition of similarities as in John 17:3 "God "and" the one who he sent? so, do God ..... "and" Father have similarities or differences? and do God "and" the sent one Jesus have similarities or differences. before you answer we suggest you read up on your bible ...... FIRST. because if the sent one, the Lord Jesus have more similarities than differences that the bible account for, a. in and out of flesh. then one will have their answer. because if the sent one share the same similarities as God that no one else has, then again we will have our answer. for there are only three entities, God, angels, and humans. and if the Lord Jesus has more similarities as God than any one else has, then again, we will have our answer.
also, after this, we can discuss 1 Cor 15:24-28, in which 101G can from the bible show that Jesus is this ONE TRUE GOD from 1 Cor 15:24-28. .... (smile).
YIKES!.
now, as U know, 101G is not trinitarian, nor unitarian.
101G
@Wrangler, you said, "1 Cor 15:24-28 Christianity's end game. Juxtaposition of "Jesus" with "God" is ubiquitious and these verses shows that in the end, Jesus is still not God. " 101G disagree with your assertion. Just as you use you in your footer, John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." is this not a Juxtaposition? of side-by-side comparison, with the conjunction "and" showing the same, or similarities, or maybe differences as you may .... THINK?.... (smile). just as James 1:27 states, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
is God "and" the Father a Juxtaposition of similarities as in John 17:3 "God "and" the one who he sent? so, do God ..... "and" Father have similarities or differences? and do God "and" the sent one Jesus have similarities or differences. before you answer we suggest you read up on your bible ...... FIRST. because if the sent one, the Lord Jesus have more similarities than differences that the bible account for, a. in and out of flesh. then one will have their answer. because if the sent one share the same similarities as God that no one else has, then again we will have our answer. for there are only three entities, God, angels, and humans. and if the Lord Jesus has more similarities as God than any one else has, then again, we will have our answer.
also, after this, we can discuss 1 Cor 15:24-28, in which 101G can from the bible show that Jesus is this ONE TRUE GOD from 1 Cor 15:24-28. .... (smile).
YIKES!.now, as U know, 101G is not trinitarian, nor unitarian.
101G
Jesus has authority over everything except over God the Father. Notice the "Father" clause. If there's a Father then there has to be a Son, God the Son in this case This proves that not only 1 Cor 15:24-28 is Arianism's end game but also that the entire Bible is Arianism's end game.
24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Equally inspired to say Jesus is not God.
You couldn't even differentiate between your creator and creature-jesus which proves you don't even know what you are talking about.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Adding to Scripture to support your doctrine. There is only God the Father. 1 Cor 8:6 states this explicitly. Synonyms:
- God = YHWH = Father
- Son of God = Jesus = Christ
Wrangler
Well-known member
Not found in Scripture. Odd that the absence of your doctrine does not bother you.
No one makes God and since the Word was God (John 1:1) and was made flesh as Christ (John 1:14) then Christ is God.
Does it bother you that Jesus declared that He preexisted Abraham as the God of the OT?
Wrangler
Well-known member
God made his words, then put those words in his Anointed. Just because his anointed carried his God’s words does not make him God.
This explains why Jesus is OF God throughout the NT - servant, son, word, priest, prophet and lamb.
John 16:30
The Voice
30 We see now that You are aware of everything and You reveal things at the proper time. So we do not need to question You, because we believe You have come from God.The Apostles believe Jesus is not God but came FROM God. NOTE: The text does not say father. Jesus came from God - in how unitarian nature.
Permit me to re-introduce you to the Word of God Person:
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Grace ambassador
Well-known member
Highly doubtful that you will be 'permitted,' but we continue to pray for them to:
"Be Saved and come to the knowledge Of The Truth,"
especially to avoid This Righteous Judgment (John 5:22-23) Of God, The Word!:"And I saw a Great White Throne, and Him [ The Lord Jesus ] That sat on It,
from Whose Face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found
no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand Before God; and the books were
opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead
were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to
their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up
the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their
works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
(Rev 20:11-15)
The Word Of God Person, The Righteous Judge, To Whom Be All Honor And Glory!!
Amen.
Wrangler
Well-known member
Jesus has a title <The Word of God>. Agreed. This title cannot be broken up to suppose each word also refers to Jesus. That is, there is the title, or proper noun(s), which is not the same as common nouns, e.g., in the phrase 'the word of X'. When someone says, "I give you my word' they are not giving you a person!
While <The Word of God> refers to Jesus, not every use of the word "word" refers to Jesus. To wit, John 1:1 (amalgam):
Before time itself was measured, the Voice was speaking.
The Voice was with God1,and the Voice was a god3.
NOTE: Jesus or <The Word of God> is not contained in John 1:1.
The logic that the word "god" is used in 2 senses in John 1:! is that there is no way a thing can be with a person and be that person. This has been confirmed by @tigger2's analysis of the original language missing the definite article and the implications in translation to above.
Another example is to say, "My friend Job has a job." It is an abuse of language to say this to mean your friend has himself. Another example, "My friend Ray has a ray." Ray is with ray and is ray. Still ray is not Ray and neither are the words of a Being that Being.
From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/god
1 God : the supreme or ultimate reality: such as
a being or object that is worshipped as having more than natural attributes and powers
specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality
Greek gods of love and war
3 a person or thing of supreme value
had photos of baseball's gods pinned to his bedroom wall
4 a powerful ruler
A word from a powerful ruler would be a thing of supreme value, aka a god. v14 informs us that this "thing of supreme value" was put in Jesus mouth (in fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18:15-18), aka Jesus spoke with the authority of the Supreme Being.
The whole idea that a Being's reasoning, a Being's words are a separate person is a trinitarian fiction that does not withstand scrutiny.
Who said in Matthew 3:17 “This is My beloved Son with Whom I was well-pleased” (referring to Jesus)? A Being who speaks, whose words are not a separate person but a common attribute of every intelligent being. The idea that ones attributes constitute a separate being is extreme eisegesis.
How can a thing be with a Being and be that Being? Trinitarians 3-person Being does not resolve the logical quagmire. And none of this back door rationalization overturns the 1,000's of times God, whose only name is YHWH (not Jesus), is used in the Bible. "Jesus is God" is nowhere in Scripture, mainly because such a sentiment contradicts the unitarian text and basic theology of all the authors. Jesus was a unitarian who had God, who he admitted was the only true God. Does the words of <The Word of God> not mean anything to you?
Here is your introduction God's word nonperson.
Wrangler
Well-known member
@synergy, permit me to simply your misunderstanding of the Bible from today's devotional reading.
John 16:29-30 (ESV) His disciples said, “Ah, now you are speaking plainly and not using figurative speech! Now we know that you know all things and do not need anyone to question you; this is why we believe that you came from God.”
Do you recognize Jesus disciples believed Jesus to be - not God, Himself, but - from God? Why do you suppose it is the disciples thought Jesus was from God if the proper take on John 1:1 is that he was God, Himself?
I submit that "from" God means they knew he was not God, Himself. IF his disciples actually believed what trinitarians believe, this verse would read, 'we believe that you are God.' But that is NOT how the text reads! And there are dozens of texts that read Jesus was OF God - servant, son, word, lamb, priest, apostle, etc. Never in Scripture is the relationship between Jesus and God "is" but "from" and "of." This is because Jesus is not God.
The fact remains that Jesus explicitly declared that He preexisted Abraham as the God of the OT. I'm amazed that you expend so much energy dancing around that fact when you can just accept it and be done with it.
This translation is a total mess. How in the world can a voice be a god? Tell us more about your voice god - the voices in your head.
