Is believing/faith a work ?

What the carnal religionist has done in corrupting the word of truth, they have made faith, the act of believing a condition to get saved. They teach that God foresees this act of the sinner and then He's influenced or moved to reward the sinner with salvation or eternal life. Folks that's not salvation by grace through faith Eph 2:8, but its salvation by works, by the foreseen merit of man , and its an abomination to the Lord ! They make salvation of debt, rewarding their act of believing ! 6
 
Rom 4:4

Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

This scripture identifies with those of mans religion that promote that salvation is the reward for the merit of repentance or believing. Those with that mindset have totally forsaken the truth of Salvation by Grace through Faith Eph 2:8 !
 
brightfame52 said:
What the carnal religionist has done in corrupting the word of truth, they have made faith, the act of believing a condition to get saved. They teach that God foresees this act of the sinner and then He's influenced or moved to reward the sinner with salvation or eternal life. Folks that's not salvation by grace through faith Eph 2:8, but its salvation by works, by the foreseen merit of man , and its an abomination to the Lord ! They make salvation of debt, rewarding their act of believing ! 6
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Then you make God unilaterally abominate Himself as you claim is the one that unconditionally creates this abomination, lest any man should boast of his own works.
 
brightfame52 said:
What the carnal religionist has done in corrupting the word of truth, they have made faith, the act of believing a condition to get saved.
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It is a condition to be saved, as repeatedly taught in Scriptures.
brightfame52 said:
They teach that God foresees this act of the sinner and then He's influenced or moved to reward the sinner with salvation or eternal life.
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Metaphorically speaking. Just metaphorically. God’s sovereignty is beyond any thing man could do.
brightfame52 said:
Folks that's not salvation by grace through faith Eph 2:8, but its salvation by works, by the foreseen merit of man , and its an abomination to the Lord !
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Faith is a gift from God. So faith could never be man’s merit.
brightfame52 said:
They make salvation of debt, rewarding their act of believing ! 6
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You are right and such view of salvation, IF TAKEN LITERALLY, would be ridiculous. But do not confuse the metaphorical use of language with the literal use. I think nobody in this Forum thinks God is obliged to save man in exchange for “his” faith.
 
brightfame52 said:
What the carnal religionist has done in corrupting the word of truth, they have made faith, the act of believing a condition to get saved.
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What @brightfame52 has done it to corrupt the very teachings from the Holy Scriptures of the LORD is mind boggling.

Heb 11: 6 And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

Eph 2: 8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith

Acts 16:30-31
30 and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

.......This emphasizes both heartfelt belief (faith) and its natural expression.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Romans 10:13 for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” (Calling on the Lord implies faith.)
brightfame52 said:
They teach that God foresees this act of the sinner and then He's influenced or moved to reward the sinner with salvation or eternal life. Folks that's not salvation by grace through faith Eph 2:8, but its salvation by works, by the foreseen merit of man , and its an abomination to the Lord ! They make salvation of debt, rewarding their act of believing ! 6
Click to expand...
 
Pancho Frijoles said:
It is a condition to be saved, as repeatedly taught in Scriptures.

Metaphorically speaking. Just metaphorically. God’s sovereignty is beyond any thing man could do.

Faith is a gift from God. So faith could never be man’s merit.

You are right and such view of salvation, IF TAKEN LITERALLY, would be ridiculous. But do not confuse the metaphorical use of language with the literal use. I think nobody in this Forum thinks God is obliged to save man in exchange for “his” faith.
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For once we agree....

Amen, amen
 
Eph. 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest "any man" should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

What is the gift of God here? Is it Grace, or is it Faith? Or is it both?

Consider some absolute truths here.

#1. God's Grace existed before I was born, and will continue to exist long after I am dead. I had nothing to do in the creation or existence of God's Grace. God chooses to give His Grace to whom HE chooses. Noah received the Gift of Grace from God. It is clearly a Gift from God.

#2. My Faith didn't exist before I was born, and won't exist after I'm dead. I have one chance at the Gift of God's Grace and that through my Faith in my lifetime.

Heb. 11: 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder "of them that diligently seek him".



Jesus said to men, "And Jesus answering saith unto them, "Have faith in God". If Faith is a Gift from God, that I have no part in creating, how is it Jesus tells me to "Have faith" as if it's something I must do? Jesus asked His Disciples, " Where is your faith"? He never asked, "Where is God's Grace?".

How many times did Jesus say, "Thy Faith has saved thee"? We are told to "Continue in Faith"? That men will "Depart from the faith". If faith is the Gift of God spoken of in Eph. 2, then how can a man "continue or not continue" in Faith? Does God then give the gift of Faith, and then take away the gift of Faith, based on nothing the man chooses to do?

Jesus said: Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

So without repentance, there can be No Grace, and it also seems, No Faith as well. Given that it is clear God's Grace existed long before I was even born, clearly it is the Gift of God that God gives to men "Though Faith". But unless a man repents, from the heart, there is no Faith. Therefore Repentance is the First "Work of Faith", without which it is impossible to Please God.

This explains to me why Paul taught both Jew and Gentile, "that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance". And what are "Works" worthy of repentance?

"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God (Not religious man) "hath before ordained" that we should walk in them.

And we do so in "Faith/Belief" that we might be accepted by God and will receive His Gift of Grace in times of need.

As Paul also teaches.

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must "all appear" before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that "he hath done", whether it be good or bad.
 
brightfame52 said:
The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

See strongs # 2041:

  1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
    1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
  2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
  3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

    A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

    The mind is :

    (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

    Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

    So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

    Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

    How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

    So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

    Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

    But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.
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we discussed this strawman this morning mens group about the calvinist false idea of faith being a work.
 
civic said:
Faith alone is how one is saved which in turn produces good works. Saving faith is never alone as it produces good fruit, good works in the life of the believer. Thats the difference between a living faith and a dead faith.

next...............
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James: 2:24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

The only scripture where that phrase “faith alone” appears.
 

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