TibiasDad
Active Member
It is also an action, but not all actions are “works” in the Pauline use of the word. Believing cannot be a “work” if salvation is “not by works”, but it is an unambiguous action, something that is exercised by people.
Doug
Is believing/faith a work ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
Paul was inspired by the Spirit of God to write the word ergon for work and it means:
2041 érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).
TibiasDad
Active Member
Brightfame,
No matter how you cut it believing is something that must be done, must happen, and it is thus an action. But Paul contrasts believing with “works”, so there is a differential in Paul’s thinking that separates believing from “works”. “Works” are different in some way from “believing” which is also an action to be done.
I have given my reasoning of the difference; you have offered nothing in return. What is the difference between “works” and “believing” when both are things done?
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
No matter how you deny it believing is a work!
TibiasDad
Active Member
Then we are, according to your reasoning, saved by works; and that is heresy! I believe the we are “saved by grace, though means of faith,…not by works, lest anyone boast.” Your logic isn’t scriptural! Think, Brightfame, think! Is believing required? Is believing something that is done by people?
If a work is defined comprehensively as ‘something that is done’, without any nuance of meaning, then believing is a “work”, ‘something that is done’, and Paul’s words become nonsensical and, in fact, contrary in nature of meaning. You have Paul saying that believing is not something that is done, not an action, and thus not a work! But that is an absurd argument, because believing is an action verb, something that is done by people; which by definition is a work, something that is done.
Your dilemma is to demonstrate how believing is an action done, without it being an action done!
Doug
Faith entails humility, so that we are repudiating any sense of merit, even though it is libertarian.
Romans 3:27 (KJV) Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Calvinist faith by the Calvinist system can't really be humble because his humility is a script.
However, most Calvinists that get saved, just like Arminians don't even know anything about predetermination. Thus if an Arminian is lost then so is a Calvinist.
And if an Arminian is saved, then they don't need to be a Calvinist and the supposed accusation of works is meaningless.
And some Arminians even become Calvinists (and visa versa) later in life. Were they saved or regenerated all along despite believing in so called works?
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FreeInChrist
Active Member
The Holy Book of Scriptures say YOU ARE WRONG. Seeing that scriptures are inspired words of God YOU must think God does not know what He is saying. SMH
brightfame52
Active Member
So now you have been shown that believing is a work, and you have made it a condition, requirement performance by man to get saved.
brightfame52
Active Member
Believing is a work! If you make it a condition to get saved, you make salvation by works, forget about Grace then
brightfame52
Active Member
No it doesn't, in fact scripture shows me correct but unfortunately you don't see it
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I give you lotys of scripture and none from the KJV.... AND never from the NIV.
You do not read it....
You are like my grade school Catholic friends who would not ever come to church with me because they
were not allowed.... The church forbid it.
And at that time they were told not to read even the Catholic bible because it took a priest to interpret.
For some reason you never address a single scripture from anyone because I guess you feel Jehovah will strike you down?
You cheery pick parts of what you believe makes your point from your bible.....
You never quote Whole or even partial chapters from a book.
You are like Nicodemus who was told the truth but failed to comprehend.... I would love to know what he told others after
his meeting with Jesus....
brightfame52
Active Member
I have no problem with the scripture you quote
TibiasDad
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
Already discussed
FreeInChrist
Active Member
That is an admission.
TibiasDad
Active Member
Then you have been proven wrong! If believing is a work like all other works, and believing is required to be saved, then you’re saying salvation is by works.
But if, as I have argued, “works” that Paul argues against (and he does indeed argue against “works” as the means to salvation) are those that create a sense of worthiness in those who do them. Believing, is a human action, but it is not done with a sense of worthiness or merit. I do not believe myself worthy of anything good from God, but I believe that God desires to save me anyway, in spite of my unworthiness, thus it is gracious, undeserved, pure love.
Remember that God requires believing, thus it is a condition of being saved. But it does not imply any sense of worthiness in me when I fulfill the requirement. Faith believes in both my unworthiness and that God still wants to save me!
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
I don't know what you talking about
brightfame52
Active Member
Believing is a work, you condition salvation on your believing, you promote salvation by your works.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
You have to do that, we don't.
brightfame52
Active Member
Any act of obedience to Gods command is a work, a good work. Believing on Christ is a commandment of God, so therefore a good work 1 Jn 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
The word believe here is the greek word pisteuō and in this instance its an imperative which means:
The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.
So believing here would be a good work performed by the Jailor if he obeyed the imperative!
And if his act of obeying this command caused God to save him, then he was saved because of a god work he performed !
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
The word believe here is the greek word pisteuō and in this instance its an imperative which means:
The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.
So believing here would be a good work performed by the Jailor if he obeyed the imperative!
And if his act of obeying this command caused God to save him, then he was saved because of a god work he performed !
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