Is believing/faith a work ?

[Soyeong]

It aint us if we not elect. Its limited to whoever believes Rom 10:4

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Everyone He did it for, will be given Faith in Him to believe that He did it for them.

Jesus did not say that he fulfilled the law for law for anyone.

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life (John 17:3).

In Roman 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of our works rather than pursuing the law as through righteousness were by faith, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are committing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead for salvation, so nothing in this passage has anything to do with Jesus removing our gift of salvation by obeying the law for us.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus did not say that he fulfilled the law for law for anyone.

That's what that scripture means, The Law was always for Christ to fulfill in His Covenant engagement for His people. These are things you cant receive unfortunately. He fulfilled the righteousness of law for His fallen people Rom 8:3-4

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The us is the elect, all the elect are perfect law keepers through Christs obedience to it, and from there the elect walk after the Spirit or faith walking in the knowledge of that righteousness.

Now I already know you cant believe this, maybe God will be pleased to reveal it to you someday

 

[Soyeong]

That's what that scripture means,

That would be removing our gift of salvation, so that is not what it means.

The Law was always for Christ to fulfill in His Covenant engagement for His people. These are things you cant receive unfortunately. He fulfilled the righteousness of law for His fallen people Rom 8:3-4

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The us is the elect, all the elect are perfect law keepers through Christs obedience to it, and from there the elect walk after the Spirit or faith walking in the knowledge of that righteousness.

Now I already know you cant believe this, maybe God will be pleased to reveal it to you someday

In Romans 8:3-4, it very notably does not say that Jesus obeyed the law for us, but rather it says that he freed us from sin that that we might be free to fulfill the righteous requirement of the law by walking after the Spirit. In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to God's law, so it not speaking about Jesus submitting to the law for anyone.

 

[brightfame52]

That would be removing our gift of salvation, so that is not what it means.

Thats foolishness, the righteousness is a Gift, He worked for it and freely gives it to the elect Rom 5:17


For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

Righteousness and Salvation are One Isa 61 10

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

 

[Soyeong]

Thats foolishness, the righteousness is a Gift, He worked for it and freely gives it to the elect Rom 5:17


For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ)

For someone to have a character trait means that they are a doer of works that embody that trait, so for example someone being courageous means that they are a doer of courageous works and God being righteous means that He is a doer of righteous works. So the gift of righteousness is the gift of getting to become a doer of righteous works, but you are wanting Christ to remove his gift of righteousness by doing those works for us instead. You are wanting to just be counted as righteous instead of the gift of actually bering made to be righteous, so it is like you are wanting just the box that the gift of salvation came in but not its contents.

Righteousness and Salvation are One Isa 61 10

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

In Revelation 19:8, the righteous works of the saints are like fine white linen.

 

[brightfame52]

For someone to have a character trait means that they are a doer of works that embody that trait,

Thats included in the Gift of Righteousness, Christ was a doer of the Law for Righteousness.

 

[JLB]

Been explaining to you perhaps for the decade

You have never explained even once.

You just keep dodging the question like you are doing now and have done for years.

 

[brightfame52]

You have never explained even once.

False, here and on other sites

 

[JLB]

False, here and on other sites

Thanks for proving my point.


You have never explained even once.

You just keep dodging the question like you are doing now and have done for years.



You are afraid of people seeing your Christ-less salvation theory.

 

[brightfame52]

Thanks for proving my point.


You have never explained even once.

You just keep dodging the question like you are doing now and have done for years.



You are afraid of people seeing your Christ-less salvation theory.

I've been explaining to you for years

 

[Soyeong]

Thats included in the Gift of Righteousness, Christ was a doer of the Law for Righteousness.

The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience but where doing the work contributes nothing toward earning the opportunity to experience driving it.

Similarly, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing God and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience (Exodus 31:33, Matthew 7:23). Likewise, the content of the gift of righteousness is the experience of getting to be a doer of righteous works, but if Christ does them on our behalf instead, then we would be robbed of getting to have that experience and would not have the gift of righteousness.

 

[brightfame52]

he content of a gift can be the experience of doing something such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience but where doing the work contributes nothing toward earning the opportunity to experience driving it.

Christs entire active obedience to the Law of God, was in the place and stead and benefit of the Church which He represented, and all that righteousness has been imputed to them as if they did it themselves as a Gift. God gives Faith in Christ to everyone He did it for, He represented.

 

[brightfame52]

. Likewise, the content of the gift of righteousness is the experience of getting to be a doer of righteous works, but if Christ does them on our behalf instead, then we would be robbed of getting to have that experience and would not have the gift of righteousness.

Living by Faith in Christ as ones righteousness is the practical experience as Paul stated Phil 3:9

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: God sees the believer as having kept the law for righteousness through the faithfulness of Christ who kept it for them.

 

[brightfame52]

Is believing/faith a work ?

Again, yes it is. Its the action, function, deed of the mind, the soul, and heart. The word work ergon means:

work, labor, action, deed,

/érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose)

Phillip told the ethiopian eunuch Acts 8:37

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

So if one bases their Salvation on believing, their act, they are basing it on their works, no way around it! 3

 

[Kampioen]

Is believing/faith a work ?

Again, yes it is. Its the action, function, deed of the mind, the soul, and heart. The word work ergon means:

work, labor, action, deed,

/érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose)

Phillip told the ethiopian eunuch Acts 8:37

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

So if one bases their Salvation on believing, their act, they are basing it on their works, no way around it! 3

Romans 4:5 (KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 4:5 (KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This doesnt say believing is not a work. See believing is a work when one makes it a condition man does in order get saved or Justified. In Rom 4:5 believing is not a condition, its a grace gift Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

 

[TibiasDad]

This doesnt say believing is not a work. See believing is a work when one makes it a condition man does in order get saved or Justified. In Rom 4:5 believing is not a condition, its a grace gift Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

In the NT works refers to keeping the Jewish laws, not to human action. Human action is not prohibited, but the thinking that human action can make us worthy of something just because we have done something sufficiently is the point of error.

God is not and cannot be obligated by any action of man. That’s why works are meaningless. Faith is continually contrasted with works of the law and the sense of worthiness and deserving, not human action in itself.

Human action is required, but not the works of the law, but the singular act of faith!

Doug

 

[FreeInChrist]

This doesnt say believing is not a work. See believing is a work when one makes it a condition man does in order get saved or Justified. In Rom 4:5 believing is not a condition, its a grace gift Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

No — the Bible repeatedly and emphatically says that faith/believing is NOT a work.
It is the exact opposite of works, and the two are deliberately contrasted over and over.

Here are the clearest verses that settle the question once and for all:

Verse	Exact Words (ESV/NIV)	What It Proves
Romans 4:4–5	“Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness.”	Works = something you earn Faith = something you receive
Romans 3:27–28	“Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded… For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.”	Faith and works are mutually exclusive in justification
Ephesians 2:8–9	“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”	Faith itself is part of the gift, not a work
Romans 11:6	“But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.”	Grace and works cancel each other out
John 6:28–29	They asked, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”	Jesus redefines “work of God” as believing — i.e., believing is the opposite of human working
Titus 3:5	“He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy…”	Salvation (which comes by faith) is not because of anything we did

One-Sentence You Should Use Forever ........​

Faith is the empty hand that simply receives what Christ has done... works are the full hand trying to earn or add something.... the Bible always puts them on the opposite sides of the equation"

So when someone says “faith is a work,” they are directly contradicting the plain teaching of Paul, Jesus, and the rest of the New Testament.

 

[brightfame52]

In the NT works refers to keeping the Jewish laws, not to human action

False

 

[brightfame52]

No — the Bible repeatedly and emphatically says that faith/believing is NOT a work.

No it doesn't.