brightfame52
Active Member
Look salvation is not by works.
Is believing/faith a work ?
- Thread starter brightfame52
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I agree that we can't earn our salvation as the result of our works and have not suggested otherwise. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so doing those works has nothing to do with trying to earn our salvation as the result, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is part of his gift of salvation.
mailmandan
Active Member
In John 6:29, Jesus said - "This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent," when He answered the Jews (who were taking a legalistic approach) when they asked, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (plural) of God?" So, by Jesus' play on words here, He was not implying that believing is just "another" work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works. Also, through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption - Romans 3:24-28). There is a distinction between faith AND works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
brightfame52
Active Member
This works salvation
If that is works salvation, the Bible supports works salvation, however, works salvation is the position that we are required to have first done enough works in order to earn our salvation as the result, so that is not works salvation.
Works can be done for a variety of reasons such as out of faith or love or in order to earn a wage, so it is important to recognize that the Bible can speak against being required to do works for incorrect reasons without speaking against being required to do them for correct reasons. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while Paul denied that we can earn our salvation as the result our works lest anyone should boast, God graciously making us into a doer of good works is nevertheless still a central part of His gift of salvation.
In Titus 2:11-13, our Dali’s described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so those works have absolutely nothing to do trying to contribute anything towards earning our salvation as the result but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is part of His gift of salvation. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Christ accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God.
In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God’s commandments, so having faith in Jesus is not an alternative to obeying God’s commandments.
Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God’s law (1 John 3:4), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer of the law is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.
mailmandan
Active Member
We are saved FOR good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Faith involves belief, trust, reliance and obeying God's commandments after we have been saved through faith is works. (1 John 2:3)
Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of sin while our lives continued to be directed at being doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and redirecting our lives towards being doers of God’s law. In Titus 2:11-13, we are not required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first be saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is the aspect of His gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present.
mailmandan
Active Member
1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother and sister.
Why did you quote those verses?
mailmandan
Active Member
Because you said - "Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of sin while our lives continued to be directed at being doers of sin.."
Why did you quote those verses in response to what I said?
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mailmandan
Active Member
Because the lives of believers are not to be continued to be directed as doers of sin.
Indeed, that is true, though the point is still that there is an aspect of God’s gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and redirecting our lives towards being a doer of God’s law.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes it is works salvation, and no the scripture is against works salvation, and is about salvation by grace apart from works lest any man may boast.
Scripture describes our salvation as being trained by grace to do works, so if that is works salvation, then Scripture supports it. In Ephesians 2:8-10, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so while Paul denied that we can earn our salvation as the result of our works lest any man should boast, God graciously making us into a doer of good works is nevertheless still a central part of His gift of salvation, so if that is works salvation, the Scripture again support it. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God’s law (1 John 3:4), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be a doer it is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it.
brightfame52
Active Member
Works are after Salvation, before Salvation man is spiritually dead, at best he does dead works, which the blood of Christ purges us from at Salvation Heb 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to have our lives directed as being doers of sin, so there is an aspect of our gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present by repenting and redirecting our lives towards being a doer of God's law. In Titus 2:11-11, it doesn't say either that we are required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result or that we are required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather it God graciously teaching us to be a doer of those works is the aspect of His gift of salvation that we are experiencing in the present.
In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was not speaking about the way to earn eternal life as the result of our works but about the way to experience that gift. In Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that obedience to God's law brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! Dead works are not the works that the Bible says lead to life in obedience to God's law, but those that it says lead to death in disobedience to it.
brightfame52
Active Member
The death of Christ saved from not only the penalty of sin, but the power of sin as well, it saved them He died for from all the effects of sin 100%
In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself not just to redeem us from all lawlessness but also in order to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20)
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