Is anyone else a Seer?

[jeremiah1five]

It is easy for me to criticise sinless perfectionism because I don’t personally know any Christians who struggle with this doctrine. However, I dare say that I know an entire evangelical culture that is complacent about sin. We’ve forgotten that sin is ugly and grotesque; the complete opposite to righteousness. We’ve forgotten that God’s will for our lives is that we be holy.

We’ve forgotten that what Christians look forward to above all else is Jesus returning to take away our sin completely. We’ve forgotten that anyone who truly desires that day to come will be obsessed with living a holy life now.

Christians haven't forgotten anything. They are stubborn, rebellious, disobedient, and their beliefs are made up of false teaching which they will never let go - even if the Scripture says the opposite of what they believe.

 

[Peterlag]

I went for a whole 8 hours without committing a single sin. Then I work up.

The first red flag to get me thinking that maybe I'm not a sinner saved by grace is because the Catholics teach it. I thought for a minute and realized the Catholics have never been right about anything.

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.

 

[Lions Mane]

In Romans 7, Paul showed us that Christians still wrestle with remaining, indwelling sin*. He says: “But what I hate I do”. But, at the same time, Christians have experienced a revolution in consciousness—a real disgust over sin and (now) an inability to find any lasting pleasure in it: “But what I hate I do.”

These two facts keep us from either the legalism that says: Real Christians don’t struggle with sin anymore, or the permissiveness that says: Real Christians are human; they sin just like anyone else. The Spirit of God has come in and transformed our “inner being” and self so we want God and holiness, but our “flesh” or “sinful nature” is still powerful enough to keep us from doing what our new desires want.

But Romans 7 does not say everything about the Christian life. Our new condition—a “double nature”—can actually lead to more distress unless we “live … according to the Spirit”. Paul gives us directions on how to live in the Spirit. Unless we do, we will find ourselves continually doing what we hate.

 

[Victoria]

In Romans 7, Paul showed us that Christians still wrestle with remaining, indwelling sin*. He says: “But what I hate I do”. But, at the same time, Christians have experienced a revolution in consciousness—a real disgust over sin and (now) an inability to find any lasting pleasure in it: “But what I hate I do.”

These two facts keep us from either the legalism that says: Real Christians don’t struggle with sin anymore, or the permissiveness that says: Real Christians are human; they sin just like anyone else. The Spirit of God has come in and transformed our “inner being” and self so we want God and holiness, but our “flesh” or “sinful nature” is still powerful enough to keep us from doing what our new desires want.

But Romans 7 does not say everything about the Christian life. Our new condition—a “double nature”—can actually lead to more distress unless we “live … according to the Spirit”. Paul gives us directions on how to live in the Spirit. Unless we do, we will find ourselves continually doing what we hate.

Well said, Lions Mane. Amen!

 

[Peterlag]

In Romans 7, Paul showed us that Christians still wrestle with remaining, indwelling sin*. He says: “But what I hate I do”. But, at the same time, Christians have experienced a revolution in consciousness—a real disgust over sin and (now) an inability to find any lasting pleasure in it: “But what I hate I do.”

These two facts keep us from either the legalism that says: Real Christians don’t struggle with sin anymore, or the permissiveness that says: Real Christians are human; they sin just like anyone else. The Spirit of God has come in and transformed our “inner being” and self so we want God and holiness, but our “flesh” or “sinful nature” is still powerful enough to keep us from doing what our new desires want.

But Romans 7 does not say everything about the Christian life. Our new condition—a “double nature”—can actually lead to more distress unless we “live … according to the Spirit”. Paul gives us directions on how to live in the Spirit. Unless we do, we will find ourselves continually doing what we hate.

I have had a number of Christians tell me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. Romans 7 tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about Israel and their Law and how they toy with their flesh. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

 

[Begotten]

Salvation by faith is at stake. Once good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone; it is by faith and works. To imply that salvation is maintained by good works or not sinning is to take the daily burden of our salvation upon ourselves. In that case, there will be room for boasting in heaven.

Saying that God’s grace enables us to maintain good works will not solve this dilemma. For who is responsible for daily appropriating that grace? We are back where we began. If salvation is not forever, salvation cannot be through faith alone.

 

[dwight92070]

I have had a number of Christians tell me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. Romans 7 tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about Israel and their Law and how they toy with their flesh. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

Now there's a cult leader if there ever was one. Steeped in metaphysics, E. W. was the true father of the word of faith movement. I believe E.W. Kenyon went to Emerson College, which was replete with metaphysics. I believe he was also influenced by Christian Science, which was neither Christian nor Science.

Kenyon decided that he would "mix" Christianity with metaphysics.
Kenneth Hagin, who is wrongly called the father of the word of faith movement plagiarized a lot of Kenyon's teachings - word for word.
These lies are still with us in Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Creflo Dollar, T.D.Jakes, Joel Osteen, Paula White, Joyce Meyers, Benny Hinn, and on and on goes the infamous list.

Even the title of Kenyon's teaching is a lie. All of Scripture was written to believers, including 1 John 1:9
You, Peterlag, are also preaching a different gospel, just like charismaticlady is.

 

[Peterlag]

Now there's a cult leader if there ever was one. Steeped in metaphysics, E. W. was the true father of the word of faith movement. I believe E.W. Kenyon went to Emerson College, which was replete with metaphysics. I believe he was also influenced by Christian Science, which was neither Christian nor Science.

Kenyon decided that he would "mix" Christianity with metaphysics.
Kenneth Hagin, who is wrongly called the father of the word of faith movement plagiarized a lot of Kenyon's teachings - word for word.
These lies are still with us in Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Creflo Dollar, T.D.Jakes, Joel Osteen, Paula White, Joyce Meyers, Benny Hinn, and on and on goes the infamous list.

Even the title of Kenyon's teaching is a lie. All of Scripture was written to believers, including 1 John 1:9
You, Peterlag, are also preaching a different gospel, just like charismaticlady is.

I agree with everything you said and believe the same except for 1 John 1:9 and the following which I wrote...

I have had a number of Christians tell me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. Romans 7 tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about Israel and their Law and how they toy with their flesh. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."