If you deny PSA, you have become an OT Jew.

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus did not die “instead of” Jerusalem, since it is still going to be destroyed. Jesus did not die “instead of” the disciples, who will still brought to trial and some of them killed. Jesus goes the way of Jerusalem’s destruction on the cross and Jesus’s disciples follow the way of the cross as they pick up their own. This is about solidarity, not substitution. According to the Gospels, Jesus is not dying instead of anyone, let alone his disciples, but rather, ahead of them. He is the one who pioneers the way through death and into indestructible resurrection life, moral purification, the forgiveness of sins, and the establishment of the new eschatological covenant.

This is a very good observation. The question I've asked in my theology and I answer is....

"If Christ died for us to free us from death, then why do we still die"?

The truth of the matter is glorious. People see the death of this flesh differently than they should.

The painful reality of our deaths are profound. It is a line in our lives where everything is irrevocably written. It is our own final words or speech of how we've chosen to serve God and.... OUR FELLOWMEN.

It is impossible for us to just love ourselves. There is no place for freedom found from the demands of love.

 

[TomL]

Not sure I understand your question. Can you elaborate? Thanks

Your statement, which I bolded,

PSA overstates the need for wrath in the suffering of Jesus Christ and also misses the meaning of the Incarnation almost entirely.

led to my comment

Shouldn't that then be a cause for rejection?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Your statement, which I bolded,



led to my comment

Shouldn't that then be a cause for rejection?

In that aspect, yes. As I previously stated, other theories seek to avoid our guilt.

It is a natural progression when a person starts rejecting doctrines such as PSA (rightfully so in its entirety) to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

What PSA does do is force man to deal with their own guilt.

Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Though I believe that mankind shouldn't be fearful of what God offers them in Jesus Christ, those that reject such an offering need to be fearful.

As I have said before, it is the offering of Jesus Christ that both saves and damns humanity. Those that have "trodden under foot" the Son of God should be very fearful. Fear begins knowledge. It is not what completes it but does often begin a respect for God being right about all things.

Universalism seeks to ignore the contempt from God that awaits those who discount the need for a willingness to embrace the perfection of God. Universalism basically extends most of what Calvinism teaches to include everyone.

 

[TomL]

In that aspect, yes. As I previously stated, other theories seek to avoid our guilt.

It is a natural progression when a person starts rejecting doctrines such as PSA (rightfully so in its entirety) to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".

What PSA does do is force man to deal with their own guilt.

Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Though I believe that mankind shouldn't be fearful of what God offers them in Jesus Christ, those that reject such an offering need to be fearful.

Indeed, rejecting Christ leads to judgment.

John 3:18–19 (LEB) — 18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: that the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil.

John 3:36 (LEB) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.

2 Thessalonians 1:8–9 (LEB) — 8 with burning flame giving punishment to those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus, 9 who will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

Hebrews 10:26–29 (LEB) — 26 For if we keep on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that is about to consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think the person will be considered worthy of who treats with disdain the Son of God and who considers ordinary the blood of the covenant by which he was made holy and who insults the Spirit of grace?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Indeed, rejecting Christ leads to judgment.

John 3:18–19 (LEB) — 18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: that the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their deeds were evil.

John 3:36 (LEB) — 36 The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who disobeys the Son will not see life—but the wrath of God remains on him.

2 Thessalonians 1:8–9 (LEB) — 8 with burning flame giving punishment to those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus, 9 who will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

Hebrews 10:26–29 (LEB) — 26 For if we keep on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that is about to consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think the person will be considered worthy of who treats with disdain the Son of God and who considers ordinary the blood of the covenant by which he was made holy and who insults the Spirit of grace?

Lets talk about fear for a moment. The writer of Hebrews speaks of reverencing our fathers.

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Heb 12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Heb 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Until a person learns what love really is and how to love, there must be some sense of "acceptance" with God's (faith) way. In all things, God is right. Perfect.

Many people think they've already matured in their lives to the point they understand love but love is the bond of perfection. It is new in so many ways each day. It grows. It matures. I changes us. It changes our minds our spirit/soul as we learn of it through the Spirit of God.

Until this becomes a part of us in maturity, there must be a sense of reverence toward God in having faith to believe what He says even though we don't currently understand it completely.