If .. then...

How about Adam then? Which one of God's laws did you think people are born breaking?
I'm not sure what you are asking but the way I see it when Adam sinned - sin entered the world and death by sin. All are guilty because all are appointed once to die . . . sin brought the penalty and there is no escaping it whether infant, child, young adult, adult, seniors - we are all going to die as a result of Adam's sin. So yes, everyone is guilty because of Adam.
 
Adam was an exception as one born perfect and was sinless up to the point of the fall in partaking of the fruit of the tree.
I don't believe God creates people born sinning.

So why are we talking about this? You said that being sinless means Jesus is God, but you did admit Adam is an exception. All points aside, the criteria of being sinless being a qualifier to be God doesn't work if Adam did it too.

What is something that is unique or exclusive to Jesus that you believe makes him God?
 
I don't believe God creates people born sinning.

So why are we talking about this? You said that being sinless means Jesus is God, but you did admit Adam is an exception. All points aside, the criteria of being sinless being a qualifier to be God doesn't work if Adam did it too.

What is something that is unique or exclusive to Jesus that you believe makes him God?
Jesus never had the ability to become sinful. That's one main difference between Jesus and Adam.

You can look on other threads and from biblical teachers from the past on what is unique and exclusive about Jesus that means He is God. It's already been covered.

For eg..

 
Jesus never had the ability to become sinful. That's one main difference between Jesus and Adam.

You can look on other threads and from biblical teachers from the past on what is unique and exclusive about Jesus that means He is God. It's already been covered.

For eg..

Who said Jesus didn't have the ability sin, i.e. to become sinful?
 
Jesus never had the ability to become sinful. That's one main difference between Jesus and Adam.

You can look on other threads and from biblical teachers from the past on what is unique and exclusive about Jesus that means He is God. It's already been covered.

For eg..


The Bible repeatedly depicts Jesus as a man who experienced what is common to all people, endured, and overcame. Jesus could have sinned if he only chose to.

Hebrews 2
17For this reason He had to be made like His brothers in every way, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people. 18Because He Himself suffered when He was tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.

Hebrews 4
15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet was without sin.

Hebrews 5
8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from what He suffered.

Revelation 2
21To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
 
He has the divine nature. That cannot sin. I dont believe He could sin. Like asking God to do something completely foreign to who they are.
Why do you think God anointed Jesus with holy spirit and with power right before he was led into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil . . . If he couldn't sin why did Satan waste his time tempting him?

Exactly! tempting God to sin is completely foreign to who he is - God cannot be tempted. So if Jesus was God; he was NOT tempted in all things as we are!!! [Heb. 4:15]
 
Why do you think God anointed Jesus with holy spirit and with power right before he was led into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil . . . If he couldn't sin why did Satan waste his time tempting him?

Exactly! tempting God to sin is completely foreign to who he is - God cannot be tempted. So if Jesus was God; he was NOT tempted in all things as we are!!! [Heb.

Tempting doesn't mean sinning. Having the opportunity to sin, doesn't mean they do sin.

I would need to look at the question you asked more though.. that is a good question.
 
I'm not sure what you are asking but the way I see it when Adam sinned - sin entered the world and death by sin. All are guilty because all are appointed once to die . . . sin brought the penalty and there is no escaping it whether infant, child, young adult, adult, seniors - we are all going to die as a result of Adam's sin. So yes, everyone is guilty because of Adam.

You are guilty because of you.

Every person is guilty because of "Them"selves.
 
Tempting doesn't mean sinning. Having the opportunity to sin, doesn't mean they do sin.

I would need to look at the question you asked more though.. that is a good question.
Correct - tempting does not mean that one sins but what is the use in tempting someone if they CANNOT SIN - if it's impossible for them to sin --- which it is impossible for God to sin and as far as that goes, scripture says God cannot be tempted with evil neither does he tempt any man. [James 1:13]

thanks
 
Correct - tempting does not mean that one sins but what is the use in tempting someone if they CANNOT SIN - if it's impossible for them to sin --- which it is impossible for God to sin and as far as that goes, scripture says God cannot be tempted with evil neither does he tempt any man. [James 1:13]

thanks

From:


It is important to remember that when Jesus was miraculously conceived in Mary’s womb, God literally became a man. Undiminished deity and full humanity were united. So, while Jesus’ humanity could “feel” temptation, His deity gave no place for the temptation to “attach” (James 1:15). That is how Jesus, “in all points” (that is, “in every kind of way”) could be tempted and feel the temptation and yet never sin.
 
From:


It is important to remember that when Jesus was miraculously conceived in Mary’s womb, God literally became a man. Undiminished deity and full humanity were united. So, while Jesus’ humanity could “feel” temptation, His deity gave no place for the temptation to “attach” (James 1:15). That is how Jesus, “in all points” (that is, “in every kind of way”) could be tempted and feel the temptation and yet never sin.
Jesus was miraculously conceived BY the Holy Spirit the power of the Most High in Mary's womb. It was the Holy Spirit the power of the Most High that caused the conception - God conceived God???? God was not conceived in Mary's womb as a human being, a baby. Mary did not change God's diapers, rock him to sleep, discipline him. God created a fully human being in the womb of Mary - like US as it records in Hebrews. If what you say is true - Jesus could not be truly tempted in all points as we are.

God didn't literally become a man - God was IN Christ. If God became a man then there is no Son . . . everything about His Son is a lie because the SON WASN'T THE SON AFTER ALL but God as a man God in the flesh. We are supposed to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, not that 'God is the Messiah'.

Why is it that no one wants to be true to what the majority of scriptures say concerning Jesus Christ and just acknowledge the tremendous selfless thing Jesus did for us, he NEVER sinned - it took effort.
He always submitted his will to that of His Father - it took effort.
He had to suffer to the point of death on a cross, praying earnestly for God to remove this 'cup' from him and an angel came from heaven to strengthen him for the task ahead - it took effort!
There are no sufficient words to praise our Lord and Savior for what he, being a human being, did for us.
Imagine this from a truly human man's point of view:

And when he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed, saying, "Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will but yours be done. And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, to strengthen him. And being in agony he prayed more earnestly and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground. . . .

IT TOOK GREAT EFFORT.
 
Jesus was miraculously conceived BY the Holy Spirit the power of the Most High in Mary's womb. It was the Holy Spirit the power of the Most High that caused the conception - God conceived God???? God was not conceived in Mary's womb as a human being, a baby. Mary did not change God's diapers, rock him to sleep, discipline him. God created a fully human being in the womb of Mary - like US as it records in Hebrews. If what you say is true - Jesus could not be truly tempted in all points as we are.

God didn't literally become a man - God was IN Christ. If God became a man then there is no Son . . . everything about His Son is a lie because the SON WASN'T THE SON AFTER ALL but God as a man God in the flesh. We are supposed to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, not that 'God is the Messiah'.

Why is it that no one wants to be true to what the majority of scriptures say concerning Jesus Christ and just acknowledge the tremendous selfless thing Jesus did for us, he NEVER sinned - it took effort.
He always submitted his will to that of His Father - it took effort.
He had to suffer to the point of death on a cross, praying earnestly for God to remove this 'cup' from him and an angel came from heaven to strengthen him for the task ahead - it took effort!
There are no sufficient words to praise our Lord and Savior for what he, being a human being, did for us.
Imagine this from a truly human man's point of view:

And when he withdrew from them about a stone's throw, and knelt down and prayed, saying, "Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will but yours be done. And there appeared to him an angel from heaven, to strengthen him. And being in agony he prayed more earnestly and his sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground. . . .

IT TOOK GREAT EFFORT.

You called Jesus Lord and Saviour.

If He isn't God..he is mortal man and cannot eternally save anyone.

Giving eternal life is not something a mortal man can do for others.

If you say the Father gave Jesus the authority to give eternal life, that's still far and away power beyond the disciples and apostles. It would be power no other mortal man has ever been given (assuming it wasn't already Jesus's power to give it).

This is the point of this thread: you can't have it both ways ..calling Him saviour and Lord and then say He is mortal.

Jesus saw Nathaneal when He was nowhere near him. It doesn't say it was a vision or revelation.. it just says Jesus saw him.

Jesus cast demons out ..not just like the apostles and disciples did..He had authority Himself over them.

Jesus forgave sin of those who he didn't know personally. That's having authority over sin itself rather than just pardoning a personal grievance.
 
You called Jesus Lord and Saviour.

If He isn't God..he is mortal man and cannot eternally save anyone.
How could a mortal man bring death to everyone? For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. [Romans 5:17]

God sent his Son - anointing and consecrating him to accomplish all that God needed him to do----For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [John 3:16]
Giving eternal life is not something a mortal man can do for others.
Our Savior had to be mortal in order to die for our sins.
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. . . . . so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. [Romans 5:10,11,21] For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. [John 5:26]
If you say the Father gave Jesus the authority to give eternal life, that's still far and away power beyond the disciples and apostles. It would be power no other mortal man has ever been given (assuming it wasn't already Jesus's power to give it).
Yes, God gave all authority to his Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus did nothing without the authority of God his Father. It was God who did the mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him.
This is the point of this thread: you can't have it both ways ..calling Him saviour and Lord and then say He is mortal.
Why?
Jesus saw Nathaneal when He was nowhere near him. It doesn't say it was a vision or revelation.. it just says Jesus saw him.
Revelation is not a vision, nor a dream . . . it is God 'revealing' something to someone. God revealed to his Son who Nathaniel was-----God does interact with people.
Jesus cast demons out ..not just like the apostles and disciples did..He had authority Himself over them.
Yep, Jesus gave them authority ---- These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons". . . . There is one record where the disciples were not able to cast out a demon out: And when he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer. [John 9:28,29] When Jesus gave them authority they authority through his name.
Jesus forgave sin of those who he didn't know personally. That's having authority over sin itself rather than just pardoning a personal grievance.
I still don't understand why no one believes what the scripture says concerning Jesus???? It just baffles me that they want to disparage all that he accomplished . . . I don't get it.
 
How could a mortal man bring death to everyone? For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ. [Romans 5:17]

God sent his Son - anointing and consecrating him to accomplish all that God needed him to do----For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [John 3:16]

Our Savior had to be mortal in order to die for our sins.
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. . . . . so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. [Romans 5:10,11,21] For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. [John 5:26]

Yes, God gave all authority to his Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus did nothing without the authority of God his Father. It was God who did the mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him.

Why?

Revelation is not a vision, nor a dream . . . it is God 'revealing' something to someone. God revealed to his Son who Nathaniel was-----God does interact with people.

Yep, Jesus gave them authority ---- These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons". . . . There is one record where the disciples were not able to cast out a demon out: And when he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer. [John 9:28,29] When Jesus gave them authority they authority through his name.

I still don't understand why no one believes what the scripture says concerning Jesus???? It just baffles me that they want to disparage all that he accomplished . . . I don't get it.
If I call Jesus Saviour.. but He cannot actually give me eternal life, being just a man, then He is no Saviour.

If I call Jesus, Lord.. but He is not actually God... Just a mortal man..how is He 'Lord'?

If Jesus can actually give the disciples authority to have power over demons..what does that make Jesus?

He's not a disciple or an apostle but is Head of them. What does that say about Him..also given what the disciples represent as 12?
 
If I call Jesus Saviour.. but He cannot actually give me eternal life, being just a man, then He is no Saviour.
WHAT???? For as the Father (God) has life in himself so he has granted the Son (Jesus) also to have life in himself. Do not marvel at this: for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear my voice, and come out; those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. [John 5:26,28]
John 17:2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him . .
If I call Jesus, Lord.. but He is not actually God... Just a mortal man..how is He 'Lord'?
WHAT???? Your reasoning is illogical - Sarah called Moses 'my lord' --- did he actually have to be God?
So Sarah laughed to herself, saying, “After I am worn out, and my lord is old, shall I have pleasure?” [Gen. 18:12]
If Jesus can actually give the disciples authority to have power over demons..what does that make Jesus?
Jesus was given authority from God his Father . . . Jesus gave passed authority to his disciples.
He's not a disciple or an apostle but is Head of them. What does that say about Him..also given what the disciples represent as 12?
Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, who was faithful to him who appointed him, just as Moses also was faithful in all God's house. [Hebrews 3:1,2]
 
WHAT???? For as the Father (God) has life in himself so he has granted the Son (Jesus) also to have life in himself. Do not marvel at this: for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear my voice, and come out; those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. [John 5:26,28]
John 17:2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him . .

WHAT???? Your reasoning is illogical - Sarah called Moses 'my lord' --- did he actually have to be God?
So Sarah laughed to herself, saying, “After I am worn out, and my lord is old, shall I have pleasure?” [Gen. 18:12]

Jesus was given authority from God his Father . . . Jesus gave passed authority to his disciples.


Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession, who was faithful to him who appointed him, just as Moses also was faithful in all God's house. [Hebrews 3:1,2]

(Joh 10:27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
(Joh 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(Joh 10:29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
(Joh 10:30) I and my Father are one.

Jesus equal with the Father here.

So the authority given Jesus, isn't like God to mortal man. It's different.
 
(Joh 10:27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
(Joh 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(Joh 10:29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
(Joh 10:30) I and my Father are one.

Jesus equal with the Father here.

So the authority given Jesus, isn't like God to mortal man.
Oops, it says right there 'My Father is greater than all' so they can't be equal.
The authority given Jesus was authority given to a mortal man. Did Jesus die for your sins? So he was a mortal man.
 
Oops, it says right there 'My Father is greater than all' so they can't be equal.
The authority given Jesus was authority given to a mortal man. Did Jesus die for your sins? So he was a mortal man.

Again.
'The Father is greater than I' verse was not about ontological superiority. That isn't the context, the subject of the passage.

Jesus was in a lesser position and in the flesh at that stage..but ascended to be one with the Father soon after.

The difference was temporary and positional, not ontological difference.

This is what is said not just by me, but other biblical scholars/commentators.
 
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