I have a loaded question. Does it matter what we believe exactly?

FreeInChrist

Active Member
I am serious about this because I , more then a lot, am aware the debates are going to go on and on about such things as the Trinity, Predestination, Free Will , Baptism, Tripartite man, Hell, and a host of other interesting and not so interesting subjects.

And YES, I will be in the mix.

But most people believe there is a right way to view things or you are wrong. I have run into very few fence sitters on any subject.

So here is my question.

What if you believe you are right and you can back up your beliefs in the Holy Word... as most everyone claims to do, but then comes the day and you find out you have been wrong about things other then having the tremendous Faith in Jesus and what he did for us.

Do you think it will matter in the end?
 
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As for you question.

Your talking about theology, "the study of God" right?

No theology will ever fully explain God and His ways because God is infinitely and eternally higher than we are. Therefore, any attempt to describe Him will fall short.

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!
Romans 11:33-36
 
I am serious about this because I , more then a lot, am aware the debates are going to go on and on about such things as the Trinity, Predestination, Free Will , Baptism, Tripartite man, Hell, and a host of other interesting and not so interesting subjects.

And YES, I will be in the mix.

But most people believe there is a right way to view things or you are wrong. I have run into very few fence sitters on any subject.

So here is my question.

What if you believe you are right and you can back up your beliefs in the Holy Word... as most everyone claims to do, but then comes the day and you find out you have been wrong about things other then having the tremendous Faith in Jesus and what he did for us.

Do you think it will matter in the end?
For years , decades I truly believed I was right as I believed TULIP was true, along with PSA. I was wrong on both of them. I didn’t t let pride keep me from walking away from those beliefs I held onto for so many years. Since then I have reexamined other beliefs that have also changed such as my former views of Gods Sovereignty and man’s free will, original sin. I’ve changed my views on those doctrines as well.
 
I am serious about this because I , more then a lot, am aware the debates are going to go on and on about such things as the Trinity, Predestination, Free Will , Baptism, Tripartite man, Hell, and a host of other interesting and not so interesting subjects.

And YES, I will be in the mix.

But most people believe there is a right way to view things or you are wrong. I have run into very few fence sitters on any subject.

So here is my question.

What if you believe you are right and you can back up your beliefs in the Holy Word... as most everyone claims to do, but then comes the day and you find out you have been wrong about things other then having the tremendous Faith in Jesus and what he did for us.

Do you think it will matter in the end?

Yes. It will matter but not from any thoughts of animosity winning out toward each other. I don't think anyone is going to be cheering that they "won" while others struggled.
 
For years , decades I truly believed I was right as I believed TULIP was true, along with PSA. I was wrong on both of them. I didn’t t let pride keep me from walking away from those beliefs I held onto for so many years. Since then I have reexamined other beliefs that have also changed such as my former views of Gods Sovereignty and man’s free will, original sin. I’ve changed my views on those doctrines as well.

I don't believe we ever really stop changing. The change might get smaller but all of this is too big to know for us. It is an seemingly endless struggle that God will settle for us.
 
I don't believe we ever really stop changing. The change might get smaller but all of this is too big to know for us. It is a seemingly endless struggle that God will settle for us.
I shared with one on our elders this morning at our Mens discipleship group at my house that I’m reading the book Lamb of the free and rethinking my views on the atonement in light of the levitical laws. I shared with him some of the things I posted here the last couple of days and he is going to get the Kindle of it for $9.

I’m always learning and rethinking what I have been taught and believed when I can hear the biblical evidence for something I was unaware of or had a different pov.
 
Abide in Christ and he is the way the, truth and the life. And the awareness of a divine presence within one’s life is what we will have if we fallow the leading of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit teaches and takes us deeper into God's truth as we live a Christian life.
 
I am serious about this because I , more then a lot, am aware the debates are going to go on and on about such things as the Trinity, Predestination, Free Will , Baptism, Tripartite man, Hell, and a host of other interesting and not so interesting subjects.

And YES, I will be in the mix.

But most people believe there is a right way to view things or you are wrong. I have run into very few fence sitters on any subject.

So here is my question.

What if you believe you are right and you can back up your beliefs in the Holy Word... as most everyone claims to do, but then comes the day and you find out you have been wrong about things other then having the tremendous Faith in Jesus and what he did for us.

Do you think it will matter in the end?
There are many Biblically viable ways to interpret the Bible. Unfortunately, we may not know precisely what the authors actually meant without directly asking them for clarification. I do know that there are thousands of different denominations that range in differences from minor to extreme.

There are also many ways to interpret the Bible, whether literally, figuratively, spiritually, or otherwise. Unfortunately, there isn't a companion app that God published that tells someone how to interpret the Bible. People often say "You just need the Holy Spirit as your guide." If that were the case, we should all pretty much be on the same page, but we're not.

At the end of the day everyone has their own religion, their own personal version of Jesus, their faith, and a Bible that is vague enough to be interpreted many different ways. It's difficult to say if that's what the authors intended, if that happened after it was translated, or if something is missing that ties it all together. I know that councils of people got together and decided for us which books are canon and they burned the rest. I don't believe God would have necessarily stepped in and guided them in their decisions.

So at the end of the day we have our faith which really just means trust. You can ask God for answers with the kind of prayers that ask for knowledge and wisdom as I don't believe God is at all threatened by our questions and thirst for truthful answers.
 
I shared with one on our elders this morning at our Mens discipleship group at my house that I’m reading the book Lamb of the free and rethinking my views on the atonement in light of the levitical laws. I shared with him some of the things I posted here the last couple of days and he is going to get the Kindle of it for $9.

I’m always learning and rethinking what I have been taught and believed when I can hear the biblical evidence for something I was unaware of or had a different pov.
This it? Lamb of the Free: Recovering the Varied Sacrificial Understandings of Jesus’s Death. $21.45 at Faithlife Ebooks
 
We all have beliefs, assumptions, and biases which impact our interpretation of the Bible.

One person’s “Bible difficulty” is another person’s “contradiction.” And it’s no use for the latter to say, “You only persist in believing the Bible because you’re a Christian.” That brand of sword always cuts both ways: “You only persist in disbelieving the Bible because you’re not a Christian.”

But Christians do bear responsibility to explain apparent discrepancies in Scripture. So Christian scholars are often called upon to resolve biblical tensions and illuminate biblical obscurities. Rarely does full resolution and agreement occur for all parties—believing and unbelieving. But occasionally, the work of scholarship provides a definitive answer accepted by everyone.

And some views are way out there.

Take the subject of the Lord’s resurrection that has been put forward in recent years by writers who seem to think that once Christianity can be purged of its miraculous elements like the empty tomb, the church will enter upon a new stage of greater vigor and renewed life.

In The Empty Tomb, Berkeley William Randolph argues that this is a fatal delusion. “It is altogether impossible to imagine that the Christian church could have risen into being and could have spread throughout the world if the faith in the resurrection of our Lord had been eliminated.”
 
We all have beliefs, assumptions, and biases which impact our interpretation of the Bible.

One person’s “Bible difficulty” is another person’s “contradiction.” And it’s no use for the latter to say, “You only persist in believing the Bible because you’re a Christian.” That brand of sword always cuts both ways: “You only persist in disbelieving the Bible because you’re not a Christian.”

But Christians do bear responsibility to explain apparent discrepancies in Scripture. So Christian scholars are often called upon to resolve biblical tensions and illuminate biblical obscurities. Rarely does full resolution and agreement occur for all parties—believing and unbelieving. But occasionally, the work of scholarship provides a definitive answer accepted by everyone.

And some views are way out there.

Take the subject of the Lord’s resurrection that has been put forward in recent years by writers who seem to think that once Christianity can be purged of its miraculous elements like the empty tomb, the church will enter upon a new stage of greater vigor and renewed life.

In The Empty Tomb, Berkeley William Randolph argues that this is a fatal delusion. “It is altogether impossible to imagine that the Christian church could have risen into being and could have spread throughout the world if the faith in the resurrection of our Lord had been eliminated.”

I once believe that scholarship could lead but I don't believe it can anymore. The best a person can do is learn how to "learn and study" like a scholar. Learn what is necessary to know. Then get it yourself. Find your own voice. Make it your own.

Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

We can help others in that journey but it is largely an empty undertaking if you can't pass on why you have the perspective we have. Perspective is very difficult to pass to another.

Becoming a disciple of Christ is a "seeing things" as He sees them. It is not seeing exactly like one of his disciples. That is less than firsthand information.

Not claiming I have a direct line to anything, I just make sure that I'm taking responsibility for what I believe. I don't blame God with my beliefs.
 
I am serious about this because I , more then a lot, am aware the debates are going to go on and on about such things as the Trinity, Predestination, Free Will , Baptism, Tripartite man, Hell, and a host of other interesting and not so interesting subjects.

And YES, I will be in the mix.

But most people believe there is a right way to view things or you are wrong. I have run into very few fence sitters on any subject.

So here is my question.

What if you believe you are right and you can back up your beliefs in the Holy Word... as most everyone claims to do, but then comes the day and you find out you have been wrong about things other then having the tremendous Faith in Jesus and what he did for us.

Do you think it will matter in the end?

I think the Scriptures give the answer as to what is the most important duty for humans in their vapor of a life on this earth.

Ecclesiastes speaks about "vanity of vanities" which I believe describes the doctrines and philosophies you are pointing out. The Wisdom of God is not historically received very well by men, they are looked at as "Beggarly Elements" and a "Yoke of Bondage". Ecc. points this out to me.

Ecc. 12: 11 The words of the wise are as goads, (Like A mirror that shows us who we are?) and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from "one shepherd".

12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making "many books" there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

Religious men have created and promoted doctrines, philosophies, traditions, religions, web-sites and book after book after book all promoting one religious opinion or perspective over another. To read them all would probably cause brain damage. And why do this when we both have the Oracles of God in our own Homes. Holy scriptures that have remained the same for century after century after century. These "Word's of God" define for us what is clean, what is Holy, what is Just, what is Righteous according to the God and Father of the Lord's Christ. Paul instructs men to trust these Holy Scriptures "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Jesus said to "Live by" these Words, and SEEK the Righteousness of God through them.

Of course, for those who believe in Jesus enough to be a "Doer" of His sayings, they would no longer have any use for a Levite Priest, or any corruptible preacher or the religious sect they are promoting. Definitely not good for religious business, and the Pharisees pointed out. We have the Oracles of God in their own homes, and as a result, "We" now sit in Moses seat. We have the Prophets and Jesus and the Apostles God gave Him as their guides and teachers. All we need is belief/faith. The Spirit of Christ which inspired Ecclesiastes makes this point perfectly.

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring "every work into judgment", with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

For me, a nobody for sure, God's works have already been judged as righteousness. If I walk in the Works that God before ordained that I should walk in them, I am safe. His Words and instruction is a refuge for me and my family.

If I want to know what is food, God has set apart an entire chapter to define for me what HE deems as food. As a result, every time I eat, shop for food, or even get hungry, my mind goes to God's Word. It is a refuge for me, and keeps God's Word in my mind throughout the week in this evil world. He defines for me what days HE esteems above other days. Now in the world God placed me in, there are religions that also esteem one day above another. But this isn't the "Work of God", rather, the work of man. I am shown how to treat others, how to engage in just Judgment. I have everything I need That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

To turn away from Him and seek the advice from some other Author or voice, although very popular as the Ecc. author points out, nevertheless, these only lead to the "works " of man.

What I found, is that when a man "Strives against transgressing God's Commandments" and Judgments, AKA "Sin", when a man "Presses towards the Prize of perfection", that was in Christ Jesus, these theological battles between the religious sects and businesses of this world fade away. They lose their importance because of the biblical fact that turning to God brings about a renewed spirit in men's mind. And the Fear of the Lord is the Beginning of wisdom.

So I believe salvation is completely based on what we "choose" to believe, which is determined by "Who" we choose to listen to, and whose Words we chose to live by.

And in the end, God is always the Right One.
 
For years , decades I truly believed I was right as I believed TULIP was true, along with PSA. I was wrong on both of them. I didn’t t let pride keep me from walking away from those beliefs I held onto for so many years. Since then I have reexamined other beliefs that have also changed such as my former views of Gods Sovereignty and man’s free will, original sin. I’ve changed my views on those doctrines as well.
Understood.

But based on beliefs now, and what used to me... (I am there also) ... if we pass and find out that we were toally wrong when we died... do you think it will count against us?

IOW... If there are 10 differing ideas on all things biblical and God, if we are wrong in our beliefs... what then?

I think there is no right or wrong answer but having been on the receiving side of literally being told I was not saved and I never would be, by several from what I consider a cult but held some weight in arguments... it make me wonder if when we are
judged if actual core beliefs count against us if we are wrong.

Probably this whole thread should be trashed as I am just having a particularly hard week and my thoughts are all over the place.

Go ahead and delete it
 
So I believe salvation is completely based on what we "choose" to believe, which is determined by "Who" we choose to listen to, and whose Words we chose to live by.

And in the end, God is always the Right One.
And if we choose wrong based on our finite understanding of things.... we are lost?

Alright. I'll take that under advisement.
 
Understood.

But based on beliefs now, and what used to me... (I am there also) ... if we pass and find out that we were toally wrong when we died... do you think it will count against us?

IOW... If there are 10 differing ideas on all things biblical and God, if we are wrong in our beliefs... what then?

I think there is no right or wrong answer but having been on the receiving side of literally being told I was not saved and I never would be, by several from what I consider a cult but held some weight in arguments... it make me wonder if when we are
judged if actual core beliefs count against us if we are wrong.

Probably this whole thread should be trashed as I am just having a particularly hard week and my thoughts are all over the place.

Go ahead and delete it
The things I was wrong about were not salvific
 
The things I was wrong about were not salvific

If God only had something to do with us when we are right.......

We'd all be in a world of hurt at this very moment and for the remainder of our lives.

I'll say something controversial so everyone can "pick on me" for a moment. I can take it... :) At least I think I can.

I tend to believe that "Delighting ourselves in the Lord" brings us to a point in our lives that we get the "desires of our hearts" but not necessarily in the way we think we should receive them.

Even when being "lead by the Spirit", I believe there comes a time in our lives where God expects us to make our own decisions and live with them.

It is a very "tricky thing" to actually get what you really want.
 
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