How Does the Bible View Salvation?

[dwight92070]

Peter, Paul, and the author of Hebrews speak of salvation differently than most of us do. It is not only a one-time event called being "born again". That is the beginning of salvation, but these three authors speak of it as a life-long process, which we fully realize upon Christ's return, which means that we must continue in the faith until we die.

Peter
1 Peter 1:5 "protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." Lo
1 Peter 2:2 "Long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow to salvation."
2 Peter 3:15 "regard the patience of our Lord as salvation."

Paul
Romans 10:10 "for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, to salvation" The Greek does not say "resulting in salvation", but "to salvation" - that is, salvation is the outcome for the believer who has believed and confessed his whole life - he already has salvation but he continues in salvation his whole life by faith.

Romans 13:11 "now salvation is nearer to us than when we first believed." Notice salvation had a starting point, when we first believed, but we also have it now, and we look forward to it in the future.

2 Corinthians 1:6 "But if we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation ..." Paul is writing to people who were already born again.

2 Corinthians 7:8-11 "you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance. For the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation." The Corinthians that Paul is writing to were already believers, they already had salvation, yet their repentance was a sign of their continued salvation.

Ephesians 6:17 "And take the helmet of salvation." Spiritual warfare can only be successfully engaged in by believers, who are already saved. So we must use our current salvation status as a helmet against wrong thinking, not allowing evil thoughts to penetrate.

Philippians 1:28 "and in no way alarmed by your opponents ... which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you." They were already born again.

Philippians 2:12 "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." But they were already born again.

1 Thessalonians 5:8 "as a helmet, the hope of salvation, " (future)
1 Thessalonians 5:9 "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation." (future)

2 Thessalonians 2:13 "God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth." (life long process)


1 Timothy 4:16 "Pay close attention to yourself and to the teaching, persevere in these things, for as you do this you will save both yourself and those who hear you."
Wasn't Timothy already born again? Yes, he was, and so were most of those to whom he was teaching.

Hebrews 1:14 "for the sake of those who will inherit salvation." (future)

Hebrews 2:3 "How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? The people he is writing to are already born again. But their continued salvation must not be neglected.

Hebrews 5:9 "He became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey Him." (They are already believers)

Hebrews 9:28 "will appear a second time for salvation ... to those who eagerly await Him." But they were already born again.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Peter, Paul, and the author of Hebrews speak of salvation differently than most of us do. It is not only a one-time event called being "born again". That is the beginning of salvation, but these three authors speak of it as a life-long process, which we fully realize upon Christ's return, which means that we must continue in the faith until we die.

Peter
1 Peter 1:5 "protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." Lo
1 Peter 2:2 "Long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow to salvation."
2 Peter 3:15 "regard the patience of our Lord as salvation."

Paul
Romans 10:10 "for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, to salvation" The Greek does not say "resulting in salvation", but "to salvation" - that is, salvation is the outcome for the believer who has believed and confessed his whole life - he already has salvation but he continues in salvation his whole life by faith.

Romans 13:11 "now salvation is nearer to us than when we first believed." Notice salvation had a starting point, when we first believed, but we also have it now, and we look forward to it in the future.

2 Corinthians 1:6 "But if we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation ..." Paul is writing to people who were already born again.

2 Corinthians 7:8-11 "you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance. For the sorrow that is according to God produces a repentance without regret, to salvation." The Corinthians that Paul is writing to were already believers, they already had salvation, yet their repentance was a sign of their continued salvation.

Ephesians 6:17 "And take the helmet of salvation." Spiritual warfare can only be successfully engaged in by believers, who are already saved. So we must use our current salvation status as a helmet against wrong thinking, not allowing evil thoughts to penetrate.

Philippians 1:28 "and in no way alarmed by your opponents ... which is a sign of destruction for them, but of salvation for you." They were already born again.

Philippians 2:12 "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." But they were already born again.

1 Thessalonians 5:8 "as a helmet, the hope of salvation, " (future)
1 Thessalonians 5:9 "For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation." (future)

2 Thessalonians 2:13 "God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth." (life long process)


1 Timothy 4:16 "Pay close attention to yourself and to the teaching, persevere in these things, for as you do this you will save both yourself and those who hear you."
Wasn't Timothy already born again? Yes, he was, and so were most of those to whom he was teaching.

Hebrews 1:14 "for the sake of those who will inherit salvation." (future)

Hebrews 2:3 "How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? The people he is writing to are already born again. But their continued salvation must not be neglected.

Hebrews 5:9 "He became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey Him." (They are already believers)

Hebrews 9:28 "will appear a second time for salvation ... to those who eagerly await Him." But they were already born again.

English translations are the problem here. Ephesians 2:8 is translated both as "by grace you have been saved" and "by grace you are saved". But the actual Greek says neither. The problem is that the Greek doesn't translate well to English. A more literal translation would be "by grace you are having been saved". Now apply that kind of thinking to all your verses.

 

[dwight92070]

English translations are the problem here. Ephesians 2:8 is translated both as "by grace you have been saved" and "by grace you are saved". But the actual Greek says neither. The problem is that the Greek doesn't translate well to English. A more literal translation would be "by grace you are having been saved". Now apply that kind of thinking to all your verses.

I don't see any problem. I looked up a few of my verses in the Greek and don't see any significant change, including the above verse. But since you brought it up, maybe you should show me the "problem".

 

[mailmandan]

Ephesians 2:8 - For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God. (AMPC)

 

[dwight92070]

Yes, we are initially brought into salvation by being born again, through no merit of our own. But to think that we have no responsibility after that, to be obedient to His commands is naive. A newborn needs to grow up and be actively obedient to his parents. The New Testament is replete with commands (yes and warnings) to keep ourselves (yes by and in faith) in Christ - that is, in His salvation. In other words, we are commanded to grow up and "do the deeds of Abraham" - that is, works of faith must follow our new birth. Here is a list of things we need to do - and yes, all of these are good works which follow our faith. Paul said we are to be zealous for good works, so that we will not be unfruitful. We can't just put our Christian walk in neutral (because we're saved by grace) and coast on in to heaven. If that were true, then Jesus and His apostles would not have given us the following commandments/instructions. In fact, if we could just lay back on our "recliner" of being saved by grace, and just bask in the knowledge that He will come and get us, then most of the New Testament didn't even have to be written. But what does the New Testament say over and over in many ways? That we are to "be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that our toil is not in vain in the Lord." 1 Corinthians 15:58

There are so many that I will quote several, but only quote the "address" for the majority of them.

Matthew 7:24-29 If we hear and obey Jesus' words, then we will be like a wise man, building our house on the rock. If we don't, our house will fall.
John 8:31-32 If we continue in His word, then we are truly His disciples. If we don't, we are not.
John 15:1-6 If we abide in Him, and He in us, we will bear much fruit. If we don't, we will be thrown away, cast into the fire, and burned.
Acts 2:40 We must save ourselves from this perverse generation. If we don't then we will be caught up in it.
Acts 15:29 We must "keep ourselves free" from things sacrificed to idols, from eating blood, and from fornication. These were the apostle's commands to the Gentile church, still valid today.
Acts 13:43 Paul and Barnabas were urging the Christians in Pisidian Antioch to continue in the grace of God.
Galatians 5:1 Paul told the Galatians to keep standing firm and not to be subject again to a yoke of slavery - the Law.
Acts 14:21-22 Paul and Barnabas were strengthening the new believers in Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, and encouraging them to continue in the faith. Apparently it's possible to not continue in the faith.
Philippians 3:16 Paul urged the Philippian to keep living by that same standard that they had attained. Which means that it's possible, as a Christian to not keep living by a standard of godliness.
Colossians 3:1 Paul told them to keep seeking the things above, which means it's possible to do the opposite and turn away from God.
James 1:27 Keep yourself unstained by the world.
1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance.
Jude 21 Keep yourselves in the love of God.
Romans 11:22 but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Colossians 1:22 to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach - if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast.
2 Thess. 3:6; 1 Tim. 5:14; 1 Tim. 6:14; Heb. 13:17; 1 Pet. 2:12, 3:10, 3:16, 4:8, 4:13; 1 John 2:3-4, 3:22, 5:3; Rom. 6:1, 11:22-23; 2 Thess. 3:4; 1 Tim. 2:15, 5:20; 2 Tim. 3:14; Heb. 8:9, 13:1

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

English translations are the problem here. Ephesians 2:8 is translated both as "by grace you have been saved" and "by grace you are saved". But the actual Greek says neither. The problem is that the Greek doesn't translate well to English. A more literal translation would be "by grace you are having been saved". Now apply that kind of thinking to all your verses.

"Are having been saved" should have made that clear.

Ironically, a bad example would be "12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

That verse means "If you think you can work out your own salvation by human will, do so with fear and trembling, because it is God, not YOU, who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

 

[dwight92070]

Sometimes that way of thinking about Philippians 2:12 reduces the body of Christ to total inactivity, not to mention it is a wrong understanding. Look at Jesus and Paul. Were they sitting in their lounge chairs content with the understanding that if anything at all happens to them, God is the one who's going to have to do it? NO! If He doesn't do it, then I might as well stay here in my lounge chair and do nothing. In fact, the fear and trembling mentioned here - should weigh heavily on us, IF WE DO NOTHING. Paul said we should "always abound in the work of the Lord". But what should we do? Obey His Word! Look at the verses I listed. And these are just a small sampling of all the commands.


It is my understanding that there are over 1000 commands/instructions in the New Testament that believers need to obey. You say, how can we do ALL of those? God has given us a brain. Of course we can't necessarily do every commandment every day. Yes, seek each day to be led by the Holy Spirit. Our full-time pastor starts his day in prayer. Among other things he asks God to show him what particular things he should do that day. Then he gets up and does those things. If God doesn't show him anything, then should he just go back to bed? No! Paul had a general calling to preach the gospel to the Gentiles. He didn't need a particular leading each day. He just got up, prayed, and if God didn't lead a particular way, he went out to the Gentiles and preached ANYWAY. In fact, the Holy Spirit actually had to put up a road block in front of him a couple of times.
Acts 16:7 "they were trying to go into Bithynia and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them."

Did God get you out of bed this morning? Did God dress you? Did God make your breakfast for you? Did God drive your car for you, so you can go to work? No, of course not. Nobody is denying that if it weren't for God giving you your next breath, and a brain, and muscles in your body - you could not do any of those things. But since we have breath, a brain, and muscles, we are to be good stewards and USE them.

But Paul said, "If anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat either." We could also truly say, "If anyone is not willing to work out his salvation with fear and trembling, then he should not eat either.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Peter, Paul, and the author of Hebrews speak of salvation differently than most of us do. It is not only a one-time event called being "born again". That is the beginning of salvation, but these three authors speak of it as a life-long process, which we fully realize upon Christ's return, which means that we must continue in the faith until we die.

Which is the difference between "BELIEF", and "FAITH".

You have to hold onto, and defend your "belief".

FAITH holds on to you, since it has SUBSTANCE, and is an EVIDENCE of what you don't see - yet. My FAITH has held me now for 60 years.

 

[dwight92070]

I don't see any difference. In Mark 11:22, Jesus said, "Have faith in God." In John 14:1, Jesus said, "Believe in God, believe also in Me."
Also I don't see any scripture that tells us that faith holds on to us. On the contrary, we are to "continue in faith".
But what does this have to do with the topic?

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Which is the difference between "BELIEF", and "FAITH".

You have to hold onto, and defend your "belief".

FAITH holds on to you, since it has SUBSTANCE, and is an EVIDENCE of what you don't see - yet. My FAITH has held me now for 60 years.

Belief is when you are convinced something is true. Faith is when you trust in something or someone, preferably God.

Belief doesn't prove something is true, it just indicates you are convinced it's true. Some people believe the moon landing was faked. That doesn't mean the moon landing was faked.

 

[dwight92070]

"Are having been saved" should have made that clear.

Ironically, a bad example would be "12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

That verse means "If you think you can work out your own salvation by human will, do so with fear and trembling, because it is God, not YOU, who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure."

That's not what that verse means. Human will is not condemned, it is actually encouraged, because we now have Christ in us and as we walk in the Spirit and cooperate with Him, it's our will and His will in agreement working out our salvation. Jesus said, "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light." Mat. 11:29-30

So we are in a yoke with Jesus, just as two oxen are yoked together. Jesus is pulling the yoke and we are pulling the yoke. Even though He pulls the brunt of the weight, He gives us the strength to pull as well. As we pull with Him, or abide in Him, we realize it's actually easy and the load is light. In fact, it's so easy, that it's like resting, not working - "Come to Me who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Mat. 11:28

Recently I had my garage door springs replaced. When the guy was done replacing them, he disengaged the door from the motor and asked me to open the door by hand. I lifted the door and was amazed at how easy it was to pull up. Then he told me, "The reason it's so easy is because the new springs are doing the majority of the 'lifting'." He said that without the springs, it could take three guys to lift the double garage door.

Jesus is like those two new springs on my garage door. He does the majority of the heavy lifting, but He doesn't let us off the hook. He expects us to do our part as well, since He has given us strength, gifts, and abilities.

In this yoke, "it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." Phil. 2:13 Jesus is leading us by His "Spirit ... putting to death the deeds of the body." Romans 8:13

If we are fighting Jesus and not obeying the Holy Spirit, then we should have fear and trembling, because we "are not setting our mind on God's interest, but man's." Mat. 16:23

Also notice the Philippians Paul is addressing in 2:12-13 have already been saved. So why would Paul tell them to "work out your salvation"? Because salvation is not only the single event of being born again. Having just been born, a baby requires nourishment and time to grow, become fully grown, and to mature. In other words, our salvation is really our whole life, yoked with Jesus, obeying and following Him. We look forward to the day when He comes and we get new bodies, but for now we must "work out our salvation" until the day we die.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Also notice the Philippians Paul is addressing in 2:12-13 have already been saved. So why would Paul tell them to "work out your salvation"? Because salvation is not only the single event of being born again. Having just been born, a baby requires nourishment and time to grow, become fully grown, and to mature. In other words, our salvation is really our whole life, yoked with Jesus, obeying and following Him. We look forward to the day when He comes and we get new bodies, but for now we must "work out our salvation" until the day we die.

He says "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". If he's giving advice about working out your salvation, there are two problems with that.

1. He then says it is GOD who works in you to will and to do, so why the command for YOU to work out your salvation?

2. 1 John 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

I think that verse is a warning about thinking you can work out your own salvation.

 

[Behold]

Here is "how the Bible views Salvation"


Jesus Is : Salvation

Jesus is : Redemption

Jesus is : Eternal Life

Jesus is : The Resurrection

Jesus is : The only way to the Father

 

[dwight92070]

He says "work out your salvation with fear and trembling". If he's giving advice about working out your salvation, there are two problems with that.

1. He then says it is GOD who works in you to will and to do, so why the command for YOU to work out your salvation?

2. 1 John 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

I think that verse is a warning about thinking you can work out your own salvation.

Peter tells us in 2 Peter 1:5-11 what WE MUST DO even though we are already saved, which puts him in total agreement with Paul's command to work out our salvation:
We must be diligent to add moral virtue to our faith, adding knowledge to that, adding self-control to that (not God control), adding perseverance to that, adding godliness to that, adding brotherly kindness to that, and adding love to that. ... for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

In Colossians 1:22-23, Paul affirms that we play a part:
"He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach,
IF indeed you CONTINUE in the faith FIRMLY ESTABLISHED AND STEADFAST, and NOT MOVED AWAY FROM THE HOPE OF THE GOSPEL that you have heard.

Regarding fear, Paul says in Romans 11:20-22 " ... do not be conceited, but FEAR; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God ... "

Proverbs 9:10 "The FEAR of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom ..."

If we obey Jesus and abide in His love, we don't have to be crippled by fear, but we should ALWAYS have the fear of the Lord in our hearts, knowing that whatever we sow, we will reap.

If your interpretation is correct, the verse would read something like this:
Be fearful and tremble, if you think you can work out your own salvation. For it is God who does that, not you.

That's a total twisting of what Paul is actually saying.