Heretics adept at quoting Scripture?

GeneZ

Well-known member
It always made me wonder. How?

How those who push false teachings are ready to construct Scriptural rationales using chapters and verse.
Obviously.. It does not take the Holy Spirit to memorize Scripture to create false doctrines.
It does not take regeneration! They do not have to be Spirit led.

Look how this man does it without God ... ..

 
Jesus taught the same thing as many are deceived in believing they are saved compared to the few that are saved and know the truth.
 
Just wanted some here to be aware that they are not fooling anyone just because they cite Scripture.

Do you think truth comes by direct revelation from God alone?

I do.

Since anyone can interpret any Scripture however they like...
 
Just wanted some here to be aware that they are not fooling anyone just because they cite Scripture.
Exactly Calvinists and Arminians can’t both be right. One group is wrong regarding the doctrines of grace and both groups use the same Bible.

In fact I was wrong for 40 years believing tulip and PSA taught by Calvin.
 
Jesus taught the same thing as many are deceived in believing they are saved compared to the few that are saved and know the truth.
Few only find life.​
Not, few find salvation.​
Jesus came to give life, and to give it more abundantly.

I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.
John 10:10b
Only a few are willing to fight for truth and be willing to suffer in the process for securing sound doctrine to live by.
Instead... many will take the 'broad and wide road' (mainstream conformity to churchianity), and in doing so, will have
their spiritual lives destroyed and made inoperable.

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy that leads to destruction,
and there are many who take it."
Matthew 7:13
Yes.. Many are called (saved) but a few are chosen."

Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified;
and whom He justified, these He also glorified."
Romans 8:30

Chosen = those who endure and mature to qualify to be chosen to serve with the Lord.

But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Mat 7:14


Leads to life! Not, salvation.

Many believers do not find the life Jesus came to give us. They instead choose the broad and wide road.

grace and peace ..............



 
Do you think truth comes by direct revelation from God alone?

Its not revelation. We would be writing more Scripture if it were revelation.

Truth becomes evident by direct 'enabling." = grace from God.
And, to whom it is passed on to.. enabling grace for those who are enabled to receive it.

Only a few pastors are grace enabled to pass onto the flock sound doctrine.
Too many pastors its only 'book knowledge,' and knowing what their flock wants to hear.
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.
Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great
number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3​


So it is where we now find ourselves...
 
Just wanted some here to be aware that they are not fooling anyone just because they cite Scripture.
Two people can have different understandings of the same verse and both cite that verse to support their understanding, so generally the goal of someone citing a verse to support their position is not to fool others, but because they genuinely think that the verse supports their position. If you think that someone is incorrectly interpreting a verse to support their position, then it is better to explain why you think that they are doing that than to point out that you think that they aren't fooling anyone.
 
Two people can have different understandings of the same verse and both cite that verse to support their understanding, so generally the goal of someone citing a verse to support their position is not to fool others, but because they genuinely think that the verse supports their position. If you think that someone is incorrectly interpreting a verse to support their position, then it is better to explain why you think that they are doing that than to point out that you think that they aren't fooling anyone.
Well said
 
Two people can have different understandings of the same verse and both cite that verse to support their understanding, so generally the goal of someone citing a verse to support their position is not to fool others, but because they genuinely think that the verse supports their position. If you think that someone is incorrectly interpreting a verse to support their position, then it is better to explain why you think that they are doing that than to point out that you think that they aren't fooling anyone.
I was talking about those who are near-habitually contrary....
Not simply having a different view on one topic.
 
Words mean things and sometimes they are used literally and sometimes symbolically. For example, God defines the meaning of the word "day" in Genesis 1:5 " ... And there was evening and there was morning, one day." So God has defined "day" to mean what we know today to be a 24 hour period, or one rotation of the earth. No matter what your opinion of Ken Ham, I think he has said something very wise in this regard. He said that the first time a particular word appears in the Bible, it is to be taken literally, because the way it is first used defines the word. After mankind first understood the literal meaning of "day", for example, then after that they could use that word, if they so desired - symbolically. "Back in my day" or "It's a new day". In other words, the first time a particular word appears in the Bible - it cannot be taken symbolically, because it must first be used literally to give the word it's definition. So "day" in Genesis 1 cannot be millions of years because that would immediately confuse us as to the literal defined meaning of day. Every dictionary first gives us the literal meaning of a word. After that, the dictionary may show how it can be used symbolically. God has given each of us a brain and expects us to be good stewards and use it. When we use our brains, we can understand many things, even things in the Bible. It doesn't require a supernatural empowerment or even necessarily the grace of God to understand words, except for the general grace that God gives to every baby when He created them in their mother's womb. This is why unbelievers oftentimes can understand many things in the Bible. However, other things in the Bible are not understood by unbelievers because "Satan has blinded the minds of unbelievers" and spiritual things can only be understood by spiritual people. But if we are believers, our minds are not blinded and we can easily understand the words in the Bible, and we should also be able to determine whether the words are used literally or symbolically.

We know that the word of God has been revealed to us - it itself is a revelation. However we get into trouble when we take a word literally that was meant to be taken symbolically, and vice-versa. We come up with the wrong interpretation. We also have problems when we say that a certain prophecy was fulfilled in "time A", when actually it was fulfilled "in time B", or maybe it hasn't been fulfilled yet at all. Or when we apply certain words to the entire church, that were meant for those believers who were alive at the time that the book was written. We have all heard "scripture interprets scripture", which I believe is 100% accurate. However, even there we can stumble when we say that this scripture A helps us to interpret this other scripture B - when scripture A may have nothing to do with scripture B. There are most likely other issues in correctly interpreting the Bible that I have missed or not included.

So, yes, we need to pray and ask God for wisdom when we read the Bible, because of all the possible ways of misinterpreting it. This is where we need the supernatural empowerment and grace of God - in directing us to a correct interpretation, and in ruling out an incorrect interpretation. We have the tools that we need, but God must give us the blueprint.

We also are pretty good at labeling anyone who disagrees with us as a heretic, when it may be more accurate to say that they are a Christian brother or sister who disagrees with me. Of course there are actual heresies and heretics which appear to blatantly contradict the Bible. Jesus said that we will know them by their fruits.
 
Last edited:
How those who push false teachings are ready to construct Scriptural rationales using chapters and verse.
Inconveniently, those who push true teachings are also ready to construct Scriptural rationales using chapters and verse. See how that works?

Do you think truth comes by direct revelation from God alone?

I do.

Since anyone can interpret any Scripture however they like...
I don't. Proof is the existence of authorities like Scripture. There can be no benefit at all from reading, in general, and reading Scripture, in particular, if truth comes by direct revelation from God alone.

Are you accepting second hand revelation from God as a source of truth? If so, then it is not direct revelation from God but indirect, yes?

In my reading of Scriputre, I am struck by how often people used experience rather than faith to demonstrate the truth. For instance, the Gospels are given great credibility because they are eye witness accounts. When Bible authors say multitudes have seen the risen Jesus and many are still alive at the time of the writing, what manner of rebuke is open to one who strives to deny this truth?

Then, there is all the truth we observe ourselves in every day secular matters, such as sun rising and setting, etc.
 
Satan says to Jesus:

6 “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:

“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

Here's what Satan intentionally omits.

11 For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;
12 they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

Heretical or not, most of the fallacious arguments I see on here are due to leaving out the context of the scriptures they quote.
 
Inconveniently, those who push true teachings are also ready to construct Scriptural rationales using chapters and verse. See how that works?
That's where you err.

True teaching are not "pushed."

But, apparently it appears to be that way to you.

I wonder why.
 
That's where you err.

True teaching are not "pushed."

But, apparently it appears to be that way to you.

I wonder why.

Agreed. True teaching is not pushed.

Scripture is truth. You speak it or write it, and it has whatever effect God determines it to have.

One of my pet peeves is that some here take scripture and run it through their notion of who God is, and re-interpret the scripture to match their a-priori assumption. And one method of doing that is to ignore the context.
 
Even the devil quoted Scripture, that means nothing.
It has to be revelation.

Do you think truth comes by direct revelation from God alone?

I do.

Since anyone can interpret any Scripture however they like...
But what is the strongest tool used to defeat revelation??? Was it not the orthodoxy of the Pharisees and Sadducees (especially in their controversies) who accused our Lord? Did He not say to beware the leaven of the pharisees, ie, interpreting theology to our own eisegetic ends??

A progressive revelation seems to be par for the course...from the OT to the New.
Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

From 12:9 we can see that the disclosing or unsealing of the angel's words (12:7) will not happen until the time of the end.

Therefore, we can say with assurance that this verse bears witness that there will be an unsealing, disclosing or revealing at the time of the end. Therefore may I once again suggest that, in the end times, we will be given a new understanding, that is, a revealing of that which has been sealed previously and so misinterpreted from misunderstanding.

This verse also tells us that the understanding of the new disclosures will not be possessed by everyone, but that this blessing will be possessed only by the purified and the wise, whatever that means, which implies that many will stand against it. I also suggest that because the verse says that it is the wise who shall understand, some in-depth study might be required to understand the new disclosures, that is, that these new revelations will not be blinding visions of light, but that they will most likely appeal to our reason. Stated another way, they will be doctrinal, that discipline that requires so much discipline and openness to new thoughts and implications.

And from the NT too:
John 16:25 These things have I (Jesus) spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
Which time was Jesus referring to? Was He speaking of a time far in the future, say like this time? Well, if it was a time more in the future, then He would be referring to a future doctrinal revelation, would He not?

I guess that one way to tell the time of its fulfilment is to ask ourselves whether we (that is, our educated commentators) yet plainly know of the Father, or whether we do not have it so plainly yet? In other words, do we understand the Bible plainly, or does it yet speak to us in proverbs? The Pharisees and the Sadducees certainly thought they had a plain understanding!

Revelation 10:8 Then the voice that I had heard from heaven spoke to me once more: "Go, take the scroll that lies open in the hand of the angel who is standing on the sea and on the land."

9 So I went to the angel and asked him to give me the little scroll. He said to me, "Take it and eat it. It will turn your stomach sour, but in your mouth it will be as sweet as honey." 10 I took the little scroll from the angel's hand and ate it. It tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth, but when I had eaten it, my stomach turned sour.


Very interesting, no? As a sign of the last days, a "scroll" or KJV "little book" a diminutive form of the Greek biblos or in English, bible.

Since 'book' or 'scroll' denotes writing to me, I suggest that eating is a metaphor for reading the scroll and is used so we can get the analogy of sweetness and bitterness/ sour taste into the metaphor that the meaning would be off putting.

To continue with the thought would take us to: I read the words on the little book and at first I thought they were very wonderful and gratifying (sweet) but later as I dwelt upon their meaning, I found them hard to digest, (sour in my stomach), that is hard to accept in their full meaning in the current theological context..

This leads me to consider that in the last days a new revelation will be learned that at first seems great but then makes us scared or dismayed as we learn its implications.

In the context of the next verse:
Revelation 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings. This person who read and studied until he understood the words in the little book must go out and be a prophet from the Lord, probably teaching us the words/ideas/revelation of the little book.

Since we all know the warnings of Rev 22:18:
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: I'd also suggest that this new revelation is probably more correctly called a new understanding of a previous revelation similar to the way we got a new understanding about the Messiah from Jesus and the Apostles.

So I guess we of the end times had all better be open to a theological explanation of God's reality about the Church and/or the world, one that is different from all the previous explanations we have been taught.

Might not such an occurrence put the sects, denominations and churches in the position of the Pharisees, stuck on their old understandings of the theology of the scriptures and rejecting the new understanding written in the little book? Who in any position as authority or teacher is telling us to wait for a new revelation that will put theirs out of business? Are all doctrinal fortresses self serving?

It is funny that when people say an idea is not found in the scriptures they often really mean "I was never taught an understanding of the scriptures in this way." Double-think, the belief something and its opposite are both true at the same time in the same way...such as that we are in the end times except for this new revelation thingie which must mean we are not yet in the end times, since no acceptable new revelation is being offered.

Peace, Ted
 
Back
Top Bottom