Heaven is a real place

civic

Active Member
The new heaven and new earth are also mentioned in Isaiah 65:17; 66:22; and 2 Peter 3:13. Peter says that the new heaven and new earth will be “where righteousness dwells.” Isaiah says that “the former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.” Things will be completely new, and the old order of things, with the accompanying sorrow and tragedy, will be gone.

The new earth will be free from sin, evil, sickness, suffering, and death. It will be earth as God originally intended it to be, prior to the curse of sin. It will be Eden restored.

The apostle John was privileged to see and report on the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:10–27). John witnessed that the new earth will possess the “glory of God” (Revelation 21:11), and the very presence of God will be among men. In the eternal state, there will be no night, and the Lord Himself will be the light of the city. The sun and moon will no longer be needed (Revelation 22:5).

The New Jerusalem will be filled with the brilliance of costly stones and crystal clear jasper. The city has twelve gates (Revelation 21:12) and twelve foundations (Revelation 21:14). Paradise is restored: the river of the water of life flows freely, and the tree of life is available once again, yielding fruit monthly with leaves that heal the nations (Revelation 22:1–2). The Bible gives us a glimpse of heaven, but the reality of that place is beyond the ability of finite man to imagine (see 1 Corinthians 2:9).

Heaven is a place of “no mores.” There will be no more tears, no more pain, and no more sorrow (Revelation 21:4). There will be no more separation, because death will be conquered (Revelation 20:6). The best thing about heaven will be the presence of our Lord and Savior (1 John 3:2). We will be face to face with the Lamb of God, who loved us and gave Himself for us. Because of His sacrifice, we can enjoy His presence for eternity.got?

conclusion: God creates a new heaven and new earth both of which are real places. We cannot see heaven but its a real place where the real physical Jesus is sitting on a real throne with real angels, real music, real worship. The new heavens where the great citiy is will be a real place with a real river of life, real tree of life, real fruit from its tree with real streets to walk on etc.......

hope this helps !!!
 
Jesus promise of this real place below to His disciples.

John 14:1-4
Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God believe also in me. 2My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going.”

hope this helps !!!
 
And heaven is our true home, where we shall enjoy real life.

Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. Colossians 3:2–3

We have a spot just waiting for us.

Jesus tells us “where” we will ultimately follow Him: “In My Father’s house are many mansions.… I go to prepare a place for you.”

3 And when I go and make ready a place for you, I will come back again and will take you to Myself, that where I am you may be also.
John 14:2-3
 
The new heaven and new earth are also mentioned in Isaiah 65:17; 66:22; and 2 Peter 3:13. Peter says that the new heaven and new earth will be “where righteousness dwells.” Isaiah says that “the former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.” Things will be completely new, and the old order of things, with the accompanying sorrow and tragedy, will be gone.

The new earth will be free from sin, evil, sickness, suffering, and death. It will be earth as God originally intended it to be, prior to the curse of sin. It will be Eden restored.

The apostle John was privileged to see and report on the heavenly city, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:10–27). John witnessed that the new earth will possess the “glory of God” (Revelation 21:11), and the very presence of God will be among men. In the eternal state, there will be no night, and the Lord Himself will be the light of the city. The sun and moon will no longer be needed (Revelation 22:5).

The New Jerusalem will be filled with the brilliance of costly stones and crystal clear jasper. The city has twelve gates (Revelation 21:12) and twelve foundations (Revelation 21:14). Paradise is restored: the river of the water of life flows freely, and the tree of life is available once again, yielding fruit monthly with leaves that heal the nations (Revelation 22:1–2). The Bible gives us a glimpse of heaven, but the reality of that place is beyond the ability of finite man to imagine (see 1 Corinthians 2:9).

Heaven is a place of “no mores.” There will be no more tears, no more pain, and no more sorrow (Revelation 21:4). There will be no more separation, because death will be conquered (Revelation 20:6). The best thing about heaven will be the presence of our Lord and Savior (1 John 3:2). We will be face to face with the Lamb of God, who loved us and gave Himself for us. Because of His sacrifice, we can enjoy His presence for eternity.got?

conclusion: God creates a new heaven and new earth both of which are real places. We cannot see heaven but its a real place where the real physical Jesus is sitting on a real throne with real angels, real music, real worship. The new heavens where the great citiy is will be a real place with a real river of life, real tree of life, real fruit from its tree with real streets to walk on etc.......

hope this helps !!!
I agree 100%, but I will note that "real" does not mean physical.
 
I agree 100%, but I will note that "real" does not mean physical.
Yes, absolutely.
The fact that something is describes with figurative language does not imply that the meaning is false or non existant.
For example, if we say “ we have been crucified with Christ and we have been resurrected with Christ to a new life” we are talking about a real happening, but using figurative language.

So heaven is real, but it does not mean it is a physical place in some galaxy. Heaven is a term to indícate a reality that we can't describe.
The New Jerusalem is real, but it does not mean it has physical walls, gates, physical precious stones at its foundations, physical river, where a physical tree grows.
All these metaphors point to a REALITY, though.
 
The new heaven and new earth are also mentioned in Isaiah 65:17; 66:22; and 2 Peter 3:13. Peter says that the new heaven and new earth will be “where righteousness dwells.” Isaiah says that “the former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.” Things will be completely new, and the old order of things, with the accompanying sorrow and tragedy, will be gone.

The new earth will be free from sin, evil, sickness, suffering, and death. It will be earth as God originally intended it to be, prior to the curse of sin. It will be Eden restored.
Even the title is a bit ironic, if I am using the word ironic correctly. The word place denotes a physical condition. The word place is a bit like space, time, energy, material etc. All such words and the things being described are items that came about in the creation. There is no scriptural evidence that any of them are descriptions of anything in the spiritual realm prior to the creation of this physical universe. We have trouble conceptually with the spiritual realm because we have absolutely no experiential knowledge of such a realm.

What makes you think that Eden before Adam's disobedience is what "God originally intended it to be"? There is no indication that Eden became anything more than what it became. What it became was not accident. It was not a surprise to God. Man did not become anything that God did not foresee. God knowing full well what Adam would do was all according to His plan. That does not mean that God caused Adam to sin, but God knowing what would happen was a part of His plan.

I believe that God's ultimate plan was to establish a kingdom of spiritual beings who in this physical realm would of their own free will chose to love and obey God. That being the case, it was necessary to create an existence in which such beings could demonstrate such a choice.

I do not believe even for an instant that "Eden restored" even comes close to what God has planned for that kingdom.
conclusion: God creates a new heaven and new earth both of which are real places. We cannot see heaven but its a real place where the real physical Jesus is sitting on a real throne with real angels, real music, real worship. The new heavens where the great citiy is will be a real place with a real river of life, real tree of life, real fruit from its tree with real streets to walk on etc.......

hope this helps !!!
I really believe that you are imposing your understanding of a realm of physical reality onto the non-physical realm of heaven. There is no indication in all of the Bible, that there will be even a remote resemblance to what we have and experience here in this physical realm.

Even the idea of Jesus sitting on a throne is, I believe, a false perception of what heaven is. Sitting, throne, right-hand, above, etc. are all physical concepts quite apart from anything in the heavenly realm.
 
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Well said, Jim… and I don’t think there is any modern theologian that considers those descriptions as literal/ physical.
Otherwise we would think that the vision of Ezekiel of the glory of God including wings, wheels and eyes and their movements was also literal/physical.

A continuous problem in this forum is the confusion between a figurative language and a lie.
People immediately ask back: “Do you think God is a liar? If He said X, we must understand it as X.”
We forget that we use figurative language everyday in our communication, and this does not mean we are liars.
On the contrary, it means we are so interested in other people understanding a concept, that we use the language that will be more helpful in getting our point accross.

It is likely that by the time the book of Revelation was written, Jerusalem had been destroyed or sacked, as it was sacked and partially destroyed two times before the definitive destruction in 70 AD. It is likely that the readers of John were longing for Jerusalem. Therefore, a new, giant, immensely rich and healthy Jerusalem descending from heaven was a perfect image of the world to come.
 
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Even the title is a bit ironic, if I am using the word ironic correctly. The word place denotes a physical condition. The word place is a bit like space, time, energy, material etc. All such words and the things being described are items that came about in the creation. There is no scriptural evidence that any of them are descriptions of anything in the spiritual realm prior to the creation of this physical universe. We have trouble conceptually with the spiritual realm because we have absolutely no experiential knowledge of such a realm.

What makes you think that Eden before Adam's disobedience is what "God originally intended it to be"? There is no indication that Eden became anything more than what it became. What it became was not accident. It was not a surprise to God. Man did not become anything that God did not foresee. God knowing full well what Adam would do was all according to His plan. That does not mean that God caused Adam to sin, but God knowing what would happen was a part of His plan.

I believe that God's ultimate plan was to establish a kingdom of spiritual beings who in this physical realm would of their own free will chose to love and obey God. That being the case, it was necessary to create an existence in which such beings could demonstrate such a choice.

I do not believe even for an instant that "Eden restored" even comes close to what God has planned for that kingdom.

I really believe that you are imposing your understanding of a realm of physical reality onto the non-physical realm of heaven. There is no indication in all of the Bible, that there will be even a remote resemblance to what we have and experience here in this physical realm.

Even the idea of Jesus sitting on a throne is, I believe, a false perception of what heaven is. Sitting, throne, right-hand, above, etc. are all physical concepts quite apart from anything in the heavenly realm.
Nope it’s 100% biblical eternity future has new heavens , new earth, a real city with dimensions, streets, river, tree of life, fruit, time- months , no solar system - not needed God is its light, do darkness ever. Light 24/7. Real human bodies, real people who are physical.

Hope this helps !!!
 
Did you know that heaven is mentioned more than five hundred times in the Bible? Being a prominent teaching then, heaven ought to also be prominent in our hearts and in our thoughts. As we become more heavenly minded, we actually become of more earthly good!

We want to tell people about heaven and how to get there, because hell is a real also.
 
Nope it’s 100% biblical eternity future has new heavens , new earth, a real city with dimensions, streets, river, tree of life, fruit, time- months , no solar system - not needed God is its light, do darkness ever. Light 24/7. Real human bodies, real people who are physical.

Hope this helps !!!
Good luck with that. I do hope that you are not disappointed that you become a spirit only being in the next life.
 
The Jesus of the Bible is reported to have said;

Luke 17: 20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Paul, in like manner teaches;

1 Cor. 3: 6 Know ye not that "ye are the temple of God", and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

And again:

Eph. 6: 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness "in high places".

So then, these "high places" must mean the minds of men who have "Yielded themselves" to God, where the Kingdom of God dwells, where His Temple exists. As it is also written:

Acts. 7: 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples "made with hands"; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?

And where does God place HIS Rest, but within the minds of men.

According to what is written in Scriptures, we are to become Priests and Kings in God's Kingdom which is in man's mind.

For me, it's like God placed His Kingdom within me and I am told to "Rule over" the people of this Kingdom. The people are the "thoughts" that come into and out of my mind. They are divided into 2 categories, thoughts of the Spirit, (Holy, Righteous) and thoughts of the Flesh. (disobedient, unrighteous)

The thoughts of the Flesh are "Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: These are all defined by God's Commandments, statutes and Judgments. When one of these thoughts come into our mind, were are to fight against it, destroy it, (man, woman, child, goats,) symbolically we are to comply cast it away from us, all of it. We don't sneak part of a thought and hide it under our tent (temporary dwelling, in my view)

Why? James tells us.

13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away "of his own lust", (lawless, wicked thoughts from within that defiles a man) and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The thoughts of the Spirit are "love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such "there is no law".

All this is going on in the minds of men, where the Temple of God resides. If the wicked people in the kingdom are allowed to flourish and rule over the kingdom, like what happened to King Solomon and the wicked Kings of Israel, the kingdom is taken away. But those who fight against the wicked people in their kingdom, doing so to the end, God will create for them a new Kingdom, where no wicked thoughts exist. A Promise Land Where only Righteousness exists.

It is this New City, this New Kingdom that I wait for, when the Rest from the Battle I am engaged in will come. When God will change my mind and body from a corruptible king, to an incorruptible King.

This is why Paul says, in my view, "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus", who ruled over His Kingdom that His Father gave to Him, perfectly.

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Philippians-2-6/
 
Good luck with that. I do hope that you are not disappointed that you become a spirit only being in the next life.
sorry no spirits in heaven except angels, the Father and the Holy Spirit

All believers will have physical bodies just like Jesus who is not a spirit. Jesus said a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.

Luke 24:29
Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

John 20:27
Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and look at My hands. Reach out your hand and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.”

1 John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life.

Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” They came to Him, grasped His feet, and worshiped Him.

John 20:19-20
It was the first day of the week, and that very evening, while the disciples were together with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them. “Peace be with you!” He said to them. / After He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.

John 20:25
So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.”

1 John 1:1
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our own eyes, which we have gazed upon and touched with our own hands—this is the Word of life.

Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” They came to Him, grasped His feet, and worshiped Him.

John 20:19-20
It was the first day of the week, and that very evening, while the disciples were together with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them. “Peace be with you!” He said to them. / After He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.

John 20:25
So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands, and put my finger where the nails have been, and put my hand into His side, I will never believe.”

Acts 1:3
After His suffering, He presented Himself to them with many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a span of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.

Acts 1:11
“Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”



hope this helps !!!
 
The doctrine of the son of man- Jesus is permanently man, human, having a human body.

Romans 1:1-4

Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2 which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4 who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,



Barnes' Notes on the Bible

Concerning his Son - This is connected with the first verse, with the word "gospel." The gospel of God concerning his Son. The design of the gospel was to make a communication relative to his Son Jesus Christ. This is the whole of it. There is no "good news" to man respecting salvation except what comes by Jesus Christ.

Which was made - The word translated "was made" means usually "to be," or "to become." It is used, however, in the sense of being born. Thus, Galatians 4:4, "God sent forth his Son made of a woman," born of a woman. John 8:58, "before Abraham was (born), I am." In this sense it seems to be used here, who was born, or descended from the seed of David.

Of the seed of David - Of the posterity or lineage of David. He was a descendant of David. David was perhaps the most illustrious of the kings of Israel. The promise to him was that there should not fail a man to sit on this throne; 1 Kings 2:4; 1 Kings 8:25; 1 Kings 9:5; 2 Chronicles 6:16. This ancient promise was understood as referring to the Messiah, and hence, in the New Testament he is called the descendant of David, and so much pains is taken to show that he was of his line; Luke 1:27; Matthew 9:27; Matthew 15:22; Matthew 12:23; Matthew 21:9, Matthew 21:15; Matthew 22:42, Matthew 22:45; John 7:42; 2 Timothy 2:8. As the Jews universally believed that the Messiah would be descended from David John 7:42, it was of great importance for the sacred writers to make it out clearly that Jesus of Nazareth was of that line and family. Hence, it happened, that though our Saviour was humble, and poor, and obscure, yet he had that on which no small part of the world have been accustomed so much to pride themselves, an illustrious ancestry. To a Jew there could be scarcely any honor so high as to be descended from the best of their kings; and it shows how little the Lord Jesus esteemed the honors of this world, that he could always evince his deep humility in circumstances where people are usually proud; and that when he spoke of the honors of this world, and told how little they were worth, he was not denouncing what was not within his reach.

According to the flesh - The word "flesh," σάρξ sarx, is used in the Scriptures in a great variety of significations.

(1) it denotes, as with us, the flesh literally of any living being; Luke 24:39, "A spirit hath not flesh and bones," etc.

(2) the animal system, the body, including flesh and bones, the visible part of man, in distinction from the invisible, or the soul; Acts 2:31, "Neither did his flesh (his body) "see corruption." 1 Corinthians 5:5; 1 Corinthians 15:39.

(3) the man, the whole animated system, body and soul; Romans 8:3, "In the likeness of sinful flesh. 1 Corinthians 15:50; Matthew 16:17; Luke 3:6.

(4) human nature. As a man. Thus, Acts 2:30, "God hath sworn with an oath that of the fruit of his loins according to the flesh, that is, in his human nature, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne." Romans 9:5, "whose are the fathers, and of whom, as concerning the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed forever." The same is its meaning here. He was a descendant of David in his human nature, or as a man. This implies, of course, that he had another nature besides his human, or that while he was a man he was also something else; that there was a nature in which he was not descended from David.

That this is its meaning will still further appear by the following observations.

(1) the apostle expressly makes a contrast between his condition according to the flesh, and that according to the spirit of holiness.

(2) the expression "according to the flesh" is applied to no other one in the New Testament but to Jesus Christ. Though the word "flesh" often occurs, and is often used to denote man, yet the special expression, "according to the flesh" occurs in no other connection.

In all the Scriptures it is never said of any prophet or apostle, any lawgiver or king, or any man in any capacity, that he came in the flesh, or that he was descended from certain ancestors according to the flesh. Nor is such an expression ever used any where else. If it were applied to a mere man, we should instantly ask in what other way could he come than in the flesh? Has he a higher nature? Is he an angel, or a seraph? The expression would be unmeaningful. And when, therefore, it is applied to Jesus Christ, it implies, if language has any meaning, that there was a sense in which Jesus was not descended from David. What that was, appears in the next verse.







Lets examine some of Jesus declarations about being the son of man (adam, humanity, a human being). He used this term describing His death, burial and Resurrection from the dead. He also used this phrase about His future Kingdom, Reign and Judgment at the end of the age. This would mean that Jesus not only considered Himself to be human while He walked this earth but also in the future at His 2nd Coming in Judgment. He also describes Himself at the right hand of God as a human post Resurrection/ Ascension.


"Son of man" is a common term in the Psalms, used to accentuate the difference between God and human beings. As in Ps. viii. 4 (A. V. 5), the phrase implies "mortality," "impotence," "transientness,"as against the omnipotence and eternality of God. Yhwh looks down from His throne in heaven upon the "children," or "sons," of "man" (Ps. xi. 4, xxxiii. 13). The faithful fail among them (Ps. xii. 2 [A. V. 1]); the seed of Yhwh's enemies will not abide among the "children of men" (Ps. xxi. 10). "Children of men" is thus equivalent to "mankind" (Ps. xxxvi. 8 [A. V. 7], lxvi. 5).
"Sons of men," or "children of men," designates also the slanderers and evil-doers in contrast to the righteous, that is, Israel (Ps. lvii. 5 [A. V. 4], lviii. 2 [A. V. 1]). It occurs most frequently, however, as a synonym for "mankind," "the human race" (Ps. xc. 3, cvii. 8, cxv. 16, cxlv. 12); it has this sense also in the passage in which wisdom is said to delight with the "sons of men" (Prov. viii. 31). Job(xvi. 21) employs the expression in the passionate plea for his rights while he is contending against God and against his neighbors. But Bildad insists that the "son of man," who is a mere worm, can not be justified with God (Job xxv. 4-6). In the same spirit the prophet (Isa. li. 12) censures Israel for being afraid of "the son of man which shall be made as grass" when Yhwh is their Comforter; but in Isa. lvi. 2-3 the Sabbath is extolled as making the "son of man" (i.e., any man, regardless of birth) blessed; indeed, God has His eyes "open upon all the ways of the sons of men: to give every one according to his ways" (Jer. xxxii. 19). Jewish Encyclopedia



Son of man



Daniel 7:13

Jesus speaks of Himself as the Son of man, He means thereby not merely to say that He was the Messiah, but He wishes to designate Himself as the Messiah of Daniel's prophecy, i.e., as the Son of man coming to the earth in the clouds of heaven. He thereby lays claim at once to a divine original, or a divine pre-existence, as well as to affirm true humanity of His person, and seeks to represent Himself, according to John's expression, as the Logos becoming flesh.



From the use of the expression "the Son of man" by Jesus (not only where He refers to His supernatural greatness or His divine pre-existence, but also where He places His human lowliness in contrast with His divine nature), it follows that even in those passages which treat of His coming to judgment, connected with the description, borrowed from Dan 7:13, of His coming in the clouds of heaven, He seeks to prove not so much His appearance for judgment, as rather only the divine power and glory which the Father gave Him, or to indicate from the Scriptures that the Father gave Him dominion over all people, and that He will come to reveal this dominion by the judgment of the world and the completion of His kingdom. The power to execute judgment over the living and the dead, the Father, i.e., God as the Lord of the world, has given to His Son, to Christ, because He is the Son of man (John 5:27), i.e., because He as man is at the same time of a divine nature, by virtue of which He is of one essence with the Father. This truth is manifested in the vision, Dan 7:13-14, in this, that the Ancient of days gives glory and the kingdom to Him who appears before Him in the form of a man coming in the clouds of heaven, that all people and nations might honour Him. Therewith He gave Him also implicite the power to execute judgment over all peoples; for the judgment is only a disclosure of the sovereignty given to Him.

(from Keil and Delitzsch Commentary on the Old Testament: New Updated Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1996 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc. All rights reserved.)
 
continued:

SON OF MAN

Others are "sons of men" (Job 25:6; Ps 144:3, 146:3; Isa 51:12, 56:2). God addresses Daniel (Dan 8:17) once, Ezekiel so about 80 times, to remind him of his human lowliness and frailty, as "man lower than the angels," though privileged to enjoy visions of the cherubim and of God Himself, "lest he should be exalted through the abundance of the revelations" (2 Cor 12:7). The divine Son appeared to him "as the appearance of a man above upon the throne" (Ezek 1:26). As others are "sons of God," but He "the Son of God," so others are "sons of man" (Ezek 2:1, 3) but He "the Son of man" (Matt 16:13), being the embodied representative of humanity and the whole human race; as on the other hand He is the bodily representative of "all the fullness of the Godhead" (Col 2:9). Ezekiel, as type of "the Son of man" whose manifestation he records, is appropriately designated "son of man." The title "the Son of man" implies at once Messiah's lowliness and His exaltation in His manifestations as THE REPRESENTATIVE MAN respectively at His first and second comings; His humiliation on the one hand (Ps 8:4-8; Matt 16:13, 20:18, 28) and His exaltation on the other hand, just "because He is the Son of man": Dan 7:13-14, Hebrew not Ben °iysh or °Adam, son of a hero or of man generically viewed, but


He comes again as man to reinstate man in his original glory, never to be dispossessed of it. He is now set down on the throne of God as the Son of God. That is a throne which His saints cannot share; therefore He shall assume another throne, made "His" in order that they may sit down on it with Him (Rev 3:21). The kingdom shall be "under the whole heaven," on earth (Dan 7:18, 27); He shall reign with them as the Son of man, Head of the new creation, and Restorer of man's lost inheritance. Because as man He established His and the saints' title to the kingdom at the cost of His own blood, as man He shall judge and reign. It is fit that He who as the Son of man was judged by the world should judge the world. Rev 5:9-10; Ps 8:4-8; Heb 2:6-8; 1 Cor 15:21-28, 45, 47. The title "the Son of man" in the New Testament Jesus alone uses, and of Himself, except Stephen in dying, "I see the Son of man standing on the right hand of God," referring not to His humiliation on earth but to His heavenly exaltation (compare John 12:23, 34, 6:62, 3:13; Acts 7:56); standing to assist, plead for (Ps 109:31), and receive the dying martyr.

Stephen speaking "full of the Holy Spirit" repeats Jesus' prophecy before the council, foretelling His exaltation as the Son of man; only there it is "sitting on the right hand of power," because there majestic repose, here rising to His servant's help, is the thought. Stephen's assertion stirred their rage, that Jesus who had been crucified for claiming to be "the Son of God" stands at God's right hand as being "the Son of man." Another exception is John so calls Him in apocalyptic vision (Rev 1:13, 14:14), corresponding to the Old Testament apocalypse (Dan 7:13). The Son of God in eternity became the Son of man in time, whose manhood shall be glorified with His Godhead to eternity. The two titles together declare the whole truth as to His one Person, "whom do men say that I, the Son of man, am? ... Thou art the Christ, the Son of God. ... Blessed art thou, Bar-Jona" (son of Jonah), etc.

As truly as thou art son of Jonah I am at once "the Son of man" and "the Son of God" (Matt 16:18). The two are again combined in Caiaphas' question as to His being the Son of God, and His affirmative answer and further revelation, "nevertheless, besides ... ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power," etc. (Matt 26:63-64, 24:30, 25:31-32; Mark 14:61-62). As the Son of man He was Lord of the Sabbath, "for the Sabbath was made for man" whose Representative Head He is (Mark 2:28). As the Son of man He suffered for sin (Matt 17:12), and as the Son of man He hath power on earth to forgive sins (Matt 9:6). As the Son of man He had not where to lay His head (Matt 8:20); as the Son of man "He hath on His head a golden crown" (Rev 14:14). Every eye shall see Him (Rev 1:7), but only "the pure in heart shall see God" (Matt 5:8). "The Son of God became the Son of man that you who were sons of men might be made sons of God" (Augustine, Serm. 121). Jesus is one of our race, yet above the whole race, the One Man in whom mankind finds its unity, the turning point of history at the close of the old and the beginning of the new era. His absolute relation to mankind requires an absolute relation to God. He could be the Son of man only because He is the Son of God. He alone fully realizes the ideal of man, as well as that of God, combining too in His manhood all the exquisite graces of woman with the powers of man.

(from Fausset's Bible Dictionary, Electronic Database Copyright © 1998, 2003, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)



CHAPTER III.

THE NAMES OF MAN.

§ 1. The incongruities of human nature illustrated by the Hebrew names of man,—§ 2. Meaning and usage of the word Adam.—§ 3. The title 'Son of Man:— § 4. The visions of glorified human nature in Ezekiel and Daniel.—§ 5. The promise of a human Seed from on High made to David.—§ 6. The origin and meaning of the word Ish.—§ 7. Varions ways in which it is used.—§ 8. The apple of the eye.—§ 9. General usage of the word Enosh.—§ 10. Examination of various passages in which it occurs.—§ 11. Its probable etymology.—§ 12. Why it is not applied to the Messiah.—§ 13. Meaning and usage of the word Gever.—§ 14. Instances of its occurrence in the Poetical and Prophetical Books.—§ 15. Words cognate with Gever.—§ 16. Rephaim and Nephilim.

§ 1. IF it is strange that man, gifted though he is with great intelligence, should yet need a revelation of the nature and character of his Maker; still more surprising is it that he should have to learn from the pages of Holy Writ the story of his own origin and destiny. We know by our natural instincts neither whence we come, nor whither we are going. But the Book which unfolds to us the manifold aspects of the Divine existence has not failed to supply this further lack; it furnishes us with a number of vivid scenes from human life, tracing it from its dawn in Paradise to its final and sublime reconstitution in the Great Day of 'the manifestation of the sons of God.' These pictures set forth the ways of man both in his relationship with God and in his domestic, social, and national capacities; and they are perpetually bringing into prominence the extraordinary anomalies which exist in his dispositions, aims, or actions. In consonance with our every-day experience, the Divine Artist, in pourtraying human nature, has depicted a series of incongruities which illustrate at once the greatness and the littleness of man, his nearness to God, and his fellowship with the dust.

The very names of man used by the Hebrew writers indicate the anomalies of his condition, for the principal words which are used represent him in four apparently inconsistent aspects:—as Adam, he is of the earth, earthy; as Ish, he is endued with immaterial and personal existence; as Enosh, he is weak or incurable; and as Gever, he is mighty and noble.


§ 2. Beginning the discussion of these names with the word Adam , it is noticeable the root signifies to be red or ruddy, and is the ordinary word used for that purpose. It designates Esau's red lentil pottage, and gives him his name, Edom (Gen 25:30). It is used of the rams' skins dyed red in Ex 25:5, 26:14, 35:7, 23, 36:19, and 39:34. It marks the colour of the red heifer in Num 19:2, and of the red horses in Zech 1:8, and 6:2. It is the word used of the sardius stone or ruby in Ex 28:17, 39:10, and Ezek 28:13; and of the ruddy tint of the flesh of the human being in Gen 25:25; 1 Sam 16:12, 17:42, and Song 5:10. In 2 Kings 3:22, it is applied to the water which was as red as blood; and in Isa 63:2, to the red garments which He wore who came from Edom. Nor should we omit to notice that the ordinary Hebrew word for blood (Dam) is manifestly connected with the same root, and is perhaps its real origin. Thus the relationship between man and blood is shown even in the very name.

(from Synonyms of the Old Testament. PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2013 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Section 3. Adam used for Human nature or the Human race generallyChapter 3: The Names of ManSection 4. Visions of Glorified Human Nature

The word Adam is used throughout the Hebrew Old Testament to signify human nature or the human race generally, as contrasted with God above, or with the brute creation below. Thus it is used with great fitness in Ex 33:20, 'There shall no man see me and live,' and in Mal 3:8, 'Will a man rob God?' It is the word ordinarily used in the expression 'children of men' (e.g. in Gen 11:5; Ps 11:4, 12:1, 14:2). It is also found in the title 'son of man,' which occurs 57 times in Ezekiel and once in Daniel (8:17), where it may have been intended to indicate that the heavenly visions vouchsafed to these prophets were set forth through an earthly medium; compare also Ps 8:4, Job 25:6, 35:8, and some other passages in the Psalms and Proverbs in which the expression is used. In all such passages special stress is laid upon the fact that the person thus designated is a child of Adam by descent, one of the great family of man, with a body framed of earthy material. In this sense would the expression be understood by all Jews; and doubtless our Lord frequently used it with respect to Himself in order to teach His disciples that though He 'came down from heaven,' and was 'sent from God,' yet He was in very deed and truth a man. Hence it is that He adopts the title just at the very points at which it was needful that this belief should be kept clearly in the mind of His hearers, viz. when speaking of His incarnation, His mission, His death, His resurrection, His ascension, and His second coming.

§ 4. A few passages in which the word Adam is used for man deserve to be specially pointed out. In Dan 10:16, 18, we read of 'one like the similitude or appearance of a man'—like an Adam, and yet not an Adam, because not vet incarnate. In Ezek 1:5, 8, 10, and 10:8,14, we meet with a description of living creatures with 'the likeness of a man,' with 'the hands of a man,' and with 'the face of a man;' and 'upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as of the appearance of a in an above upon it;' and this we are told was 'the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD' (Ezek 1:26, 28; see also chaps. 3:23, and 10:4). It may be inferred that the Being whom Ezekiel thus saw in his vision was represented in human form but clothed with Divine attributes—not yet 'a son of Adam,' but 'One like a son of Adam'—One whose glory might be manifested in human nature if He chose to take up His abode in an earthly tabernacle.


These remarkable passages teach us that human nature is intended to occupy a very high position in the scale of Creation, and that man was so constituted as to be capable of becoming the dwelling-place of the Most High. They also naturally prepare our minds for the truth set forth by the Evangelist St. John, who thus wrote of Christ:—'The Word was made flesh, and dwelt (or tabernacled) among us (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.' What Ezekiel saw in vision John saw in reality; his eyes looked upon and his hands handled the Word of Life.

(from Synonyms of the Old Testament. PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2013 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


Son of man
— (1.) Denotes mankind generally, with special reference to their weakness and frailty (Job 25:6; Ps 8:4, 144:3, 146:3; Isa 51:12, etc.).


(2.) It is a title frequently given to the prophet Ezekiel, probably to remind him of his human weakness.


(3.) In the New Testament it is used forty-three times as a distinctive title of the Saviour. In the Old Testament it is used only in Ps 80:17 and Dan 7:13 with this application. It denotes the true humanity of our Lord. He had a true body (Heb 2:14; Luke 24:39) and a rational soul. He was perfect man.

(from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


Matt 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matt 13:40-41
"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

Matt 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.

Matt 17:9
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."

Matt 24:27-31
For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 "Immediately after the distress of those days
"'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Matt 24:44
So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Matt 25:31-33
"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Matt 26:64-66
"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy. 66 What do you think?"
"He is worthy of death," they answered.

Acts 7:54-60
When they heard this, they were furious and gnashed their teeth at him. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. 56 "Look," he said, "I see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God."
57 At this they covered their ears and, yelling at the top of their voices, they all rushed at him, 58 dragged him out of the city and began to stone him. Meanwhile, the witnesses laid their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul.
59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." 60 Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.

Rev 14:14
And I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head, and a sharp sickle in His hand.
 
I rest my case which is based upon the bible's teaching regarding Jesus permanent humanity being the son of man which has numerous scriptures yet to be fulfilled as the son of man who is still to return as the God-man.

The Messiah is human- The Jews are still awaiting their Messiah who will appear at His 2nd Coming as the son of man.

hope this helps !!!
 
I can't believe this is even up for debate within Christianity since its an ESSENTIAL/ CORE doctrine.

It effects the Trinity
the deity of Christ
humanity of Christ
the gospel
the resurrection
salvation
Messiah
son of man
prophet
priest
king

and many other doctrines of the Christian Faith once and for all delivered to the saints. it has a trickle down effect on most other essential christian beliefs.

hope this helps !!!
 
Good luck with that. I do hope that you are not disappointed that you become a spirit only being in the next life.
Should you not say your "last" life. There will be no other but everyone always says... "In the next life, as if there will be more."

I just asked Ai about this.... and interesting comments from there. This is a study I have never done, and honestly not sure how one would go about it but look at the reply Ai made when I asked.

@Jim how much do you disagree with how the following is presented?

ME... What does the bible say about the next life and is there one after that?

Great question — and the Bible actually gives a very clear two-stage picture of the future that most people never hear taught together.


1️⃣ There​

When a believer dies, they go to be with Christ:

“To be away from the body is to be at home with the Lord.”
— 2 Corinthians 5:8
“Today you will be with me in Paradise.”
— Luke 23:43
This is a real, conscious existence, but it is temporary.
The Bible never calls this our final home.

People are alive in God’s presence, but they are waiting.


2️⃣ The dead are waiting for the​

The Bible teaches that everyone will be raised back to life:

“There will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.”
— Acts 24:15
“The dead will be raised imperishable.”
— 1 Corinthians 15:52
Right now, believers are with Christ in spirit, but they do not yet have their glorified bodies.

That happens at Christ’s return.


3️⃣ The real “next life” is the​

After the resurrection and judgment, God creates something entirely new:

“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth.”
— Revelation 21:1
“The dwelling place of God is with humanity.”
— Revelation 21:3
This is not people floating in heaven forever.

This is:

  • Resurrected people
  • In immortal bodies
  • Living on a renewed, physical earth
  • With God visibly present
That is the eternal state.


4️⃣ Is there another life​

No.
That is the final state.

The Bible describes it this way:

“They will reign forever and ever.”
— Revelation 22:5
“Death shall be no more.”
— Revelation 21:4
There is no cycle.
No reincarnation.
No second world after that.

It is eternity.


5️⃣ So the Bible’s timeline is:​

Now
Death
With Christ (spirit)
Resurrection
Judgment
New Heavens & New Earth
Eternal life forever


6️⃣ Why this matters for Romans 8​

Romans 8 isn’t about people being trapped with no hope.

It is about:

  • Creation groaning
  • Bodies waiting to be redeemed
  • God preparing a physical future
“We wait eagerly for… the redemption of our bodies.”
— Romans 8:23
That is the resurrection world.


If you want, next I can show you how this destroys both:
• “souls floating in heaven forever”
• and “God created people just to damn them”

The Bible is far more hopeful than either.
 
Should you not say your "last" life. There will be no other but everyone always says... "In the next life, as if there will be more."

I just asked Ai about this.... and interesting comments from there. This is a study I have never done, and honestly not sure how one would go about it but look at the reply Ai made when I asked.

@Jim how much do you disagree with how the following is presented?

ME... What does the bible say about the next life and is there one after that?

Great question — and the Bible actually gives a very clear two-stage picture of the future that most people never hear taught together.


1️⃣ There​

When a believer dies, they go to be with Christ:



This is a real, conscious existence, but it is temporary.
The Bible never calls this our final home.

People are alive in God’s presence, but they are waiting.


2️⃣ The dead are waiting for the​

The Bible teaches that everyone will be raised back to life:



Right now, believers are with Christ in spirit, but they do not yet have their glorified bodies.

That happens at Christ’s return.


3️⃣ The real “next life” is the​

After the resurrection and judgment, God creates something entirely new:



This is not people floating in heaven forever.

This is:

  • Resurrected people
  • In immortal bodies
  • Living on a renewed, physical earth
  • With God visibly present
That is the eternal state.


4️⃣ Is there another life​

No.
That is the final state.

The Bible describes it this way:



There is no cycle.
No reincarnation.
No second world after that.

It is eternity.


5️⃣ So the Bible’s timeline is:​

Now
Death
With Christ (spirit)
Resurrection
Judgment
New Heavens & New Earth
Eternal life forever


6️⃣ Why this matters for Romans 8​

Romans 8 isn’t about people being trapped with no hope.

It is about:

  • Creation groaning
  • Bodies waiting to be redeemed
  • God preparing a physical future

That is the resurrection world.


If you want, next I can show you how this destroys both:
• “souls floating in heaven forever”
• and “God created people just to damn them”

The Bible is far more hopeful than either.
Yes, I believe in the intermediate state between death and the return of Jesus. In the intermediate state we exist only as spirit. I believe the final state which we will spend our eternal life is also spirit. I see no reason for a physical existence. I am assuming that in the end there likely will be billions who have been given eternal life. I cannot even imagine what a world with billions of people without the rest of a physical universe pretty much as we know it now. How would we even move from one place to another? Where would the food come from? What is even the purpose of food?

Physical, by definition, means subatomic particles, atoms, molecules, chemicals, matter, energy, and all the natural laws of physical systems. Why then a new earth and new heavens? Why get rid of the old ones. In a very real sense this physical universe is perfect except for mankind and his propensity to disobey God. Will that physical man in that new heaven and new earth not be free to obey or disobey? If not, then why wasn't this first one made that way? Why this physical heaven and earth which apparently served only to produce disobedient men to consign to hell?
 
The doctrine of the son of man- Jesus is permanently man, human, having a human body.
He was God the Son (or Word if you prefer) before taking on the flesh and blood of the human being. Taking on that flesh and blood of the human being brought some very severe limitations. He was no longer omniscient, no longer omnipotent, no longer omnipresent, etc. When he returned to be with God, he again became God the Son (or the Word if you prefer). I have no doubt whatsoever that God, the Father, answered Jesus' prayer (John 17:5 ff) and upon ascension glorified Jesus together with the Father with the glory Jesus had with the Father before the world was. He once again is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and posses
all the attributes he once had as God, the Son, the Word no longer burdened and limited by the flesh and blood of mankind.
 
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