He that believes and is not water baptised is saved

[Neil Spargo]

Please show us where any of that is found in Scripture.

Act of Water Baptism​

In summary, the act of immersing someone into water does not forgive sins. Romans 6:4-7 gives us the symbolic meaning of baptism.

Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Romans 6:4-7 (NASB)

Baptism symbolizes our death and burial with Christ and then being resurrected to new life in Christ. Baptism symbolizes a person dying to sin and living unto righteousness (Romans 6:7, 18).

As a person is immersed into the water, it symbolizes their dying to self. Then as the person is raised out of the water, it symbolizes rising to new life in Christ. Baptism is a symbolic act that says, “I turn away from my sins. I die to myself and to my sins and turn to Jesus. I am a new person in Christ.” Baptism is an outward symbol of an inward change that has already occurred – salvation at the point of one’s belief in and acceptance of the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins.

 

[Doug Brents]

Act of Water Baptism​

In summary, the act of immersing someone into water does not forgive sins. Romans 6:4-7 gives us the symbolic meaning of baptism.


Baptism symbolizes our death and burial with Christ and then being resurrected to new life in Christ. Baptism symbolizes a person dying to sin and living unto righteousness (Romans 6:7, 18).

As a person is immersed into the water, it symbolizes their dying to self. Then as the person is raised out of the water, it symbolizes rising to new life in Christ. Baptism is a symbolic act that says, “I turn away from my sins. I die to myself and to my sins and turn to Jesus. I am a new person in Christ.” Baptism is an outward symbol of an inward change that has already occurred – salvation at the point of one’s belief in and acceptance of the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of our sins.

Neil, the passage in Rom 6:1-7 shows a completely different picture than what you are describing. It says that it is in water baptism that we die to sin and are then raised to new life. This happens during baptism, not before baptism. Col 2:11-14 says basically the same thing: during baptism the Holy Spirit cuts sin from us and unites us with Jesus' death and resurrection. This is not just a symbolic action, as 1 Pet 3:21 says that it is in baptism (in water like the Flood) that we are saved. Not by the power of the water, but by the power of Jesus' blood.

 

[Neil Spargo]

By the way, if the gospels are part of the Old Covenant, then why did they not get put in the Old Testament section of our Bible??

The Gospel is more pronounced in the New Testament, but the Old Testament also contains the Gospel promise. The early Christians were able to preach the Gospel from the Old Testament scriptures before the New Testament was written. Jesus confirmed that the Old Testament Scriptures spoke about Himself. The Gospel is in the Old Testament scriptures, not only in the New. The Old Testament contains passages that foreshadow the coming of Jesus and the Gospel

THE GOSPEL IN THE OLD TESTAMENT

 

[Neil Spargo]

Neil, the passage in Rom 6:1-7 shows a completely different picture than what you are describing. It says that it is in water baptism that we die to sin and are then raised to new life. This happens during baptism, not before baptism. Col 2:11-14 says basically the same thing: during baptism the Holy Spirit cuts sin from us and unites us with Jesus' death and resurrection. This is not just a symbolic action, as 1 Pet 3:21 says that it is in baptism (in water like the Flood) that we are saved. Not by the power of the water, but by the power of Jesus' blood.

In Romans 6, Paul tackles the question of why Christians should not continue to sin once we have been declared righteous by God because of our faith in Christ. It's a good question. After all, Paul's recent teaching declared that we are no longer under the law of Moses, and God's grace will always increase to cover our sinfulness. Knowing nothing but that, it's reasonable to ask why Christians shouldn't indulge in our desire to sin.

Paul's first answer is that we don't have to do what sin tells us to do any longer, so why would we keep doing it? He then reveals more information about what happens when a person comes to faith in Christ on a spiritual level. We experience a spiritual death—to sin, rather than to God—and rebirth that parallels Jesus' own physical death and resurrection. We are raised to a new spiritual life. In fact, by faith in Christ, we become so closely connected to Him that this particular spiritual death is a death to sin itself. The reason we are not slaves to sin any longer is because our old self was crucified. Dead men are freed from their old masters. Sin can't tell us what to do any more. We are literally dead to sin in Christ (Romans 6:1–11).
From BibleRef

 

[Doug Brents]

In Romans 6, Paul tackles the question of why Christians should not continue to sin once we have been declared righteous by God because of our faith in Christ. It's a good question. After all, Paul's recent teaching declared that we are no longer under the law of Moses, and God's grace will always increase to cover our sinfulness. Knowing nothing but that, it's reasonable to ask why Christians shouldn't indulge in our desire to sin.

Paul's first answer is that we don't have to do what sin tells us to do any longer, so why would we keep doing it? He then reveals more information about what happens when a person comes to faith in Christ on a spiritual level. We experience a spiritual death—to sin, rather than to God—and rebirth that parallels Jesus' own physical death and resurrection. We are raised to a new spiritual life. In fact, by faith in Christ, we become so closely connected to Him that this particular spiritual death is a death to sin itself. The reason we are not slaves to sin any longer is because our old self was crucified. Dead men are freed from their old masters. Sin can't tell us what to do any more. We are literally dead to sin in Christ (Romans 6:1–11).

This is a pretty good overview of what Paul is saying, but you skipped over a very important detail in verses 3 and 4. It says twice that it is during baptism that we die to sin and are resurrected with Christ. These things don't just happen at some arbitrary time. "Belief" is not just a mental exercise. "Belief" is "faith" (pistis in the Greek) and it requires action or it is dead, useless, and incapable of bringing new life to us.

 

[360watt]

Acts 2:38—Did Peter declare that baptism was necessary for salvation?

Is there a Bible contradiction in Acts 2:38? Here’s the solution from When Critics Ask by Geisler and Howe; used by permission.

defendinginerrancy.com

This is a good explanation

 

[Doug Brents]

Acts 2:38—Did Peter declare that baptism was necessary for salvation?

Is there a Bible contradiction in Acts 2:38? Here’s the solution from When Critics Ask by Geisler and Howe; used by permission.

defendinginerrancy.com

This is a good explanation

Nope, that is not a "good explanation".
First, the Greek word "eis" can, and does, mean both "in order to" and "because you have been" in different places. So which does it mean in Acts 2:38?
Acts 2:38 links both repentance and baptism "for" the forgiveness of sin. There is not a separation between repentance and baptism. They both correspond to "eis" (for) in the same way. Either both are "in order to receive" or both are "because you have received". But there is no possibility that one (repentance) is "in order to receive" and baptism is "because you have received". That just doesn't work with what was written, even in Greek.
Let's look over to Acts 3:19. Here Luke tells us that Peter preached that repentance was "in order to receive" forgiveness of sins.
So, if repentance must be done "in order to receive" forgiveness of sins, then baptism must be done "in order to receive" forgiveness of sins.

Second, we are not saved just by "receiving" the Word. Yes, we must first hear the Word before we can be saved, but as Rom 10:8-14 says, we must hear to believe, and we must believe to call on the Lord, and we call on the Lord by confessing Him AS Lord.

Third, if you "believe" but don't take action, then you really don't believe (James 2:14-26).

Fourth, those in Acts 10 who "received the Holy Spirit" before they were baptized, receive the gift of tongues and praise, not the indwelling of the Spirit (which is something only those in Christ receive).
Fifth, Paul did not separate baptism from the Gospel. Does a farmer separate harvesting from farming if he says, "I did not come into this field to reap the harvest, but only to plant the seed." Paul went to Corinth to plant the Seed. Others came later to water and fertilize. Paul did reap some harvest while he was there, baptizing three people/families. But he knew his mission was to plant the Seed, not to seek a harvest.

Sixth, Jesus did not call baptism a "work of righteousness". He said that His being baptized fulfilled all righteousness. He also said that we cannot enter the Kingdom of God (be saved) unless we are born again through both water (baptism) and the Spirit.

Seventh, the book of John was written between 80 and 90 AD. That means it was written, at the least, more than eighteen (18) years after Luke, the next latest Gospel, and Matthew and Mark were written between 50 and 60. This means that the Gospel had been in written form for (possibly) 30 years before John wrote his Gospel. And all of Paul's letters had been written in the interim. So John was not writing an exhaustive detailing of what it took to be saved. He was writing a treatise, a legal brief, giving the reasons why one should believe. And if one believes, then he can do the things that God has said lead to salvation (repent of sins (Acts 3:19), confess Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and be baptized into Christ (Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, Eph 5:26-27, Gal 3::26-27, John 3:5).

Finally, Mark 16:16 says that whoever does not believe is condemned already (because all have sinned, and sin is why we are condemned).
Consider that there is a room. There is a door to this room that is closed, and salvation is inside the room. Outside of the room is condemnation, and everyone in the world is standing outside that room. What Jesus is saying is that whoever believes (opens the door), and is baptized (walks through the door) will be saved. But then he says that anyone who does not believe (open the door) remains condemned (outside the room). This is naturally correct. If the door was never opened, then the person could not have entered the room where salvation is.

 

[dwight92070]

This is a pretty good overview of what Paul is saying, but you skipped over a very important detail in verses 3 and 4. It says twice that it is during baptism that we die to sin and are resurrected with Christ. These things don't just happen at some arbitrary time. "Belief" is not just a mental exercise. "Belief" is "faith" (pistis in the Greek) and it requires action or it is dead, useless, and incapable of bringing new life to us.

You mean action like James recommends in James 2, clothing and feeding the poor?

 

[Johann]

Acts 2:38 links both repentance and baptism "for" the forgiveness of sin. There is not a separation between repentance and baptism.

I'll leave this here-

Acts 2:38 and Greek: A Second Response To Damon Richardson

Recently I posted an article responding to Damon Richardson’s mishandling of the Greek text of Acts 2:38. In return Damon has offered a response in one of the most scholarly ways possible: on Faceb…

lectionary.blog

J.

 

[Doug Brents]

You mean action like James recommends in James 2, clothing and feeding the poor?

That particular action comes after salvation is received. But there are three actions that are commanded as part of faith that saves us. Those three actions are repentance (Acts 3:19), confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism (Acts 2:38). These three actions lead to/result in salvation being received. All the other actions that we might perform are what flow out from having received salvation. But even Eph 2:8-9 says that our faith must be present, alive and effective, before salvation is received, and if we have no faith, or if it is dead and useless, then we do not receive salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

@Doug Brents

Nope, that is not a "good explanation".
First, the Greek word "eis" can, and does, mean both "in order to" and "because you have been" in different places. So which does it mean in Acts 2:38?
Acts 2:38 links both repentance and baptism "for" the forgiveness of sin. There is not a separation between repentance and baptism. They both correspond to "eis" (for) in the same way. Either both are "in order to receive" or both are "because you have received". But there is no possibility that one (repentance) is "in order to receive" and baptism is "because you have received". That just doesn't work with what was written, even in Greek.
Let's look over to Acts 3:19. Here Luke tells us that Peter preached that repentance was "in order to receive" forgiveness of sins.
So, if repentance must be done "in order to receive" forgiveness of sins, then baptism must be done "in order to receive" forgiveness of sins.

eis/for can also mean "in consideration of", with regards to, respecting, the forgiveness of sins, which of course was accomplished by Jesus Christ. Forgiveness of sins is first and foremost a legal blessing accounted in heaven before Gods Law and Justice, this is without anyone knowing about it . Water baptism during the Acts was an open acknowledgement of that fact, as from gratitude one became a follower of Jesus Christ. And receiving remission of sins is coming into the knowledge of it, but the fact of it existed before God prior to that. Receiving forgiveness and causing forgiveness are two different things, Christ caused it, the forgiven receive it. Jesus gives it Acts 5:31

Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Peterlag]

A contradiction in sripture?

No. The opposite of Mark 16:16 is not true. I.e. 'He that is believes and is not baptised is not saved'

The book of John is about assuring believers have eternal life and doesn't mention water baptism much at all.
The book of Romans is about justification by faith in Christ alone and doesn't mention water baptism alot.

So Mark 16:16 need to be put alongside the verses in these books, and not held on it's own.

Same goes for Acts 2:38. It doesn't standalone.

Eternal salvation is, led by Jesus, believing Jesus is God, that He died and rose again, and that by believing in Him you have everlasting life.

Water baptism is as representation/symbol of this happening. As I typed before-- being baptised 'for' the remission of sins, is being baptised for something already happened. Like having a pill 'for' the cold.

Anyway.. I know this has been done to death, but seems popular now for people to think baptism saves eternally. The only kind of salvation it is related to is having a 'salvaged life'.. becoming a faithful believer after eternal salvation. It isn't hooked to eternal salvation. It isn't guaranteed to happen for a believer either.

Here's my take on Water Baptism...

Water baptism is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law. There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

It's clear from the gospels that water baptism had to do with the kingdom, which was ministered by John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ, who would baptize them not with material water, but with holy spirit, which is “power from on high.” From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 8:16, Peter and John “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” In Romans 6:3, it declares “that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ.” There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established. To suggest water baptism has anything to do with the only begotten resurrected Son of God, who is functioning within the New Testament as the head of the body of Christ, has led to nothing but confusion and has provided a bomb that has blown the local churches into pieces.

 

[360watt]

Here's my take on Water Baptism...

Water baptism is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law. There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

It's clear from the gospels that water baptism had to do with the kingdom, which was ministered by John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ, who would baptize them not with material water, but with holy spirit, which is “power from on high.” From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.

In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 8:16, Peter and John “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” In Romans 6:3, it declares “that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ.” There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established. To suggest water baptism has anything to do with the only begotten resurrected Son of God, who is functioning within the New Testament as the head of the body of Christ, has led to nothing but confusion and has provided a bomb that has blown the local churches into pieces.

The thing is what the baptism is into... what it enters a believer into.

In 1 corinthinans 12.. it enters believers into the body of Christ.

The key thing.. is that body in 1 co 12.. is the assembly of believers at Corinth. Its a local church.

The entity of all redeemed isnt the context of 1 co 12.

Same goes for Romans 6 baptism. This is being water baptized as a pre requisite to join any of Gods local churches.

This is the difference between the entity of all redeemed, which is NOT the body of Christ.. and the body of Christ which is a NT local assembly of believers .

The Kingdom of God, body of Christ and Family of God are not the same entities.

I joined the Kingdom and Family at new birth... I joined a body of Christ after i was baptism by immersion in water and got voted in to join that local church.

 

[Grace ambassador]

He that believeth and is not water baptized is saved?

Depends which Program/Dispensation/people Of God one is referring to, eh?:

1) Prophecy, Covenants, and Law, From Christ on the earth, to the twelve apostles, for Israel:

►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄​

The TWO Main ( of 12 ) baptisms:

A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Esp: Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25; Isaiah 52:15)

+

B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)

1) Prophecy / Covenants / Law for twelve tribes of Israel!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

2) In God's Other Distinctive Context Of Mystery / GRACE! (Romans - Philemon) =

our "One apostle to the Gentiles" for The One Body Of CHRIST, Today!:​

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄​

Today There Is:

Only One Baptism = "BY" The One Spirit = God's Operation,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The One Body Of) Christ!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB)

One, Repeat [ One and Only ] ONE [ Spiritual ] Baptism in:

2) The Mystery, for The Body Of Christ, From Christ, In Heaven!

Amen.
----------------------------------------------------

Referring to Both Of God's Two Different Programs, and 'jumbling them together' is the cause of
Much Confusion [ puffed up, biting and devouring, etc... ], but Thank God For This, eh?:

"For God Is Not the author of confusion, but of Peace, as in all the churches of the saints."​

(1 Corinthians 14:33 AV)​

 

[Behold]

The thing is what the baptism is into... what it enters a believer into.

Water Baptism enters the person into some water.

What is that?
Its symbolic of the old man going under, and the New Man in Christ being risen.

Its nothing else.

However Water Cults, such as the "cult of Mary" teach that you are "born again BY WATER", as if the Water is the Holy Spirit.

Is Water the Holy Spirit?.......Well if you are "born again BY WATER".. then someone is teaching that the Water is the Holy Spirit.

Who are those deceivers? What CULT are they from? As they all teach that you can't be saved without Water Baptism., and that is a Lie from Hell.

So/.., they originally all come from a verse found in a Demonic Bible.....that is the "Douay Rheims"... and in John 3, IT Teaches.......
= "born again...By Water".

So, what is the problem with that teaching?

A.) Its a lie. As no one is born again BY water..........Noone... and in fact a lot of people who are water baptized died today and went to hell like a bullet.

Why? Because """Jesus said, you must be born again"""""....and they were not ....but they were certainly water baptized, at least once.

Listen.....
water is just water..... and it can't wash away your sins, and it can't save anyone.
Its just WATER.