civic
Active Member
Projecting
Gospel of Christ: Is It Law Or Did It End Law?
- Thread starter Titus
- Start date
jeremiah1five
Active Member
You do not know what God's Law is and what it does, and why God gave it to the Hebrew people.
The Law of Christ is the Law of Moses.
The Law of Moses is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. It is this Law/Holy Spirit God promised to put in the inward parts of the Hebrew people who are in covenant with God.
civic
Active Member
I will let Jesus correct you.
Matthew 5
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
21You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Adultery
“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Divorce
31“It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’32;But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.Oaths
33“Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34;But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35;or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36;And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.Eye for Eye
38“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’39;But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40;And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41;If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42;Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
How about this
it FULFILLED LAW
it FULFILLED LAW
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
The law was given to expose our sin and point us to Christ.
not show us how to be righteous people. that was never its purpose.
not show us how to be righteous people. that was never its purpose.
Titus
Active Member
Your responses to me seems to indicate that you never even read my article on Jesus Gospel: Law or Ending Law.
If you read it, wow. Then how in the world did you come to view my position as someone who believes law keeping is not required today?
It would be helpful to actually learn a persons position before you attack it.
To be as blunt as I can be. If one does not obey all of Jesus' new testament commandments but chooses to rebel on commandments they personally dont agree with. They are going to hell.
Where did you come up with this stuff about me I'll never know.
Amazing. I'm the polar oppisite of free grace theology.
I've debated free grace/ hyper grace folks for 7 years now.
Their religion is no where found in the Bible.
It is pure fables.
2 Timothy 4:3-4,
- for the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine but after their own lusts shall heap to themselves teachers(false teachers) having itching ears
- and they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables
What ever you are "sensing" didn't come from my teaching.
In my article I quoted,
I highly doubt you bothered to read my article before you quickly jumped on me.
My guess is, once you learned I don't believe we are under the old Mosaical law, that was enough to set you off into attack mode.
So to make it plain, again we are under the new testament law. That law MUST be obeyed.
Jesus' commandments MUST be kept. Or hellfire awaits.
This whole thing is quite comical to me, sense faith only folks like Eternally Greatfull accuse me of being a "works based salvationist "
Now I'm being accused of the extreme opposite
Free grace no law keeping.
You just can't control what other people think and label you as.
civic
Active Member
lol you were the one attacking me with the 10 commandments , projecting !
Titus
Active Member
You dont pay attention.
I've said already, that Jesus teaches the moral laws in His new testament law. They are new testament law no longer the law of Moses in the ten commandments.
We both believe these laws must be obeyed. At least learn that much.
For the exception of Sabbath keeping.
Jesus' new testament law does not require keeping the Sabbath.
I dont know if you are a "Sabbath keeper" or what your position is on the Sabbath commandment.
Behold
Active Member
To say that "the Gospel is NT Law" is to define the Law as the Gospel.
So, that would be a lie.
The Law came by Moses....but Grace and Truth came by Jesus The Christ.
The LAW, is related to the OLD Covenant.....and Jesus is the author of the NEW Covenant, that has no Moses Law in it.
"Christ redeemed (the born again) from the Curse of The Law"."
Titus
Active Member
Wrong. The gospel is new testament law.
civic
Active Member
Ok looks like we agree. I’ve said this a 1,000 times this medium sometimes takes lots of exchanges to flush things out and clarify our positions.
Notice one thing I never attacked you personally.
Titus
Active Member
We don't really agree unfortunately.
You believe the 10 commandments are in effect in the new testament.
I believe Jesus fulfilled the old law, ended the old law, nailed the old law to His cross etc.
Those 9 moral laws that were once in the old covenant are now reinstated in the new covenant.
So it is error to teach we keep any of the law of Moses.
We keep Jesus' new testament gospel. Which teaches the same moral laws that the Jews used to keep in the old law.
Gods morality does not change.
If the ten commandments are still binding today, then ALL of the ten commandments must be obeyed.
You cannot keep some of the old law. You must keep all of it.
The old covenant is done away. Replaced with a new covenant.
Many make the mistake of believing that there is one continuous covenant.
Jeremiah 1 five believes this.
The Bible does not teach one continuous covenant.
It teaches one old that has passed away.
One new that is forever established.
civic
Active Member
Ah so I was right. Good to know
Titus
Active Member
If one tries to keep the law of Moses today. They are in error.
9 of the commandments Jesus teaches in His new testament law.
So, 9 of these laws are binding today.
I obey them so I am keeping Jesus law, Galatians 6:2.
Not the law of Moses.
Learn Paul's allegory in Galatians 4:21-31.
Paul teaches the old law is done away. Replaced with the new, Galatians 6:2.
Titus
Active Member
Yes Gods commandments are Jesus' commandments.
God replaced His old law with His new law.
Both the Father and Jesus have the same law.
Jesus was in the Godhead in the old testament and revealed and fulfilled in the new testament.
Your comment is an oversimplification. It's too vague.
civic
Active Member
Quote where the moral law was replaced
civic
Active Member
Even AI has it right
In the New Testament, God's moral law, particularly the Ten Commandments, is understood to be affirmed and intensified, not abolished. While Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial and sacrificial aspects of the Old Testament law, the moral law, reflecting God's character, remains relevant for Christians. Jesus emphasized that the law is fulfilled through love, both love for God and love for neighbor
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
No
the gospel is the good news of Jesus, Christ died, buried and raised on the third day for our justification
civic
Active Member
Ephesians 4-5: An Example of the MoralLaw
Ephesians 4:25 says that each of us must not use falsehood, but that we should speak truthfully to our neighbors: this is a reinforcement of the commandment not to bear false testimony against your neighbor. Ephesians 4:26 says that we should not let the sun go down while we are still angry, that we should not allow ourselves to become angry and hateful towards other people. Why? Because that could lead to murder, which again takes us back to the Ten Commandments. Ephesians 4:28 says that we should not steal, but we should work, doing something useful with our own hands: again this brings us back to the Ten Commandments, which says thou shalt not covet. Ephesians 4:29 says do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth: so this is definitely a law against profanity, cussing, sexual innuendos, or any sort of dirty joking. Again you could say this brings us back to the Ten Commandments, because it says thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God in vain. Ephesians 4:30 implies that people who break such laws grieve the Holy Spirit of God. Ephesians 4:31 takes us further and says that we should get rid of all bitterness, rage, and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. I would sure hate to embrace a theology that says you’re not supposed to keep a commandment like that. Ephesians 4:32 says to be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other. How does this not look like a direct positive command for how to get us to live our lives right? These are commands, these are laws, these are orders from the apostle: how can Christians do anything else than obey them as laws? Or at least try to? These are commands from God and they are found in the New Testament. They are laws against stealing, against lying, against profanity, against fighting, against anger, and against malice. I guess the question you have to ask yourself is, if you are an antinomian, and you believe that moral rules are not found in the New Testament, then what is the point of being a Christian? Is it just to be forgiven? If the whole goal of your religion is just to be forgiven, then are you implying that you’re free to steal, pick fights, and bully people; and still be in the state of salvation? I sure hope not.
Ephesians 5:3 says there should not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or any kind of impurity, or of greed. Ephesians 5:4 says there should be no obscenity, foolish talk, or coarse joking; it also says that there should be thanksgiving. Ephesians 5:5 says there should be no immoral, impure, or greedy person in the church, because such a man is an idolater, and he does not have any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ: in other words, he is not saved. If you are an antinomian, and you think that immoral and greedy backsliders are still saved, then you are deceived. Ephesians 5:18 says not to get drunk on wine, which leads to partying. I think there’s definitely enough food for thought here. Whether or not you consider these Bible verses to be commandments, or laws, or simply moral guidelines, the fact of the matter is, these are imperative commands coming from an apostle that was inspired by God, writing with the authority of Scripture. I can’t stand to listen to the vain talk and sleepy babblings of Moody Church’s Warren Wiersbe, or any Baptistic preacher, who tries to relegate all commandments and laws to the period of the Old Testament. Such people are confused and should not be in a position of teaching others. They speak out of both sides of their mouths. For some amount of time they might say that there is no law of God today, and then later on they might say that there is a law of God today, and then overturn it once again, leaving you all confused. Finally Ephesians 5:6-7 says to let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient: and therefore do not be partners with them. Oh! Give me that old-time Wesleyan Methodism that preached the truth, plain and simple! And away with these confusing and lawless falsehoods! Popularity is no sign of the truth.Wesley
The NT law makes it even harder than the OT and goes straight to the heart.
hope this helps !!!
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