God's grace to forgive and transform is not conditioned to recognizing Jesus' deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection

[Pancho Frijoles]

no Jesus, no salvation, no gospel, no salvation.

Thats what the Bible teaches which is the source of truth for all born again believers in Christ.

I could care les about man made scenerios when they are in opposition to Scripture.

You MUST care about real life scenarios or otherwise your theology is worthless.
You live a real life in a real world dealing with real men: your Jewish dentist, your Muslim coworker, your Catholic son-in-law.
You can’t escape reality.
If you are not willing answer such a SIMPLE and EASY question, where is the value of everything you have learned so far?

If you are unable or unwilling to think by yourself, at least try to ask your pastors, your mom or the children at Sunday School.
They might help you.

Who forgave and changed the life of Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio?

 

[civic]

You MUST care about real life scenarios or otherwise your theology is worthless.
You live a real life in a real world dealing with real men: your Jewish dentist, your Muslim coworker, your Catholic son-in-law.
You can’t escape reality.
If you are not willing answer such a SIMPLE and EASY question, where is the value of everything you have learned so far?

If you are unable or unwilling to think by yourself, at least try to ask your pastors, your mom or the children at Sunday School.
They might help you.

Who forgave and changed the life of Dwight, Grupeet and Antonio?

the wisdom of the world is foolishness to God. There is no workaround to be saved by avoiding the gospel of Jesus Christ. He alone is the Savior of the world. He alone saves one from their sins. He aone is the name above all names, He alone is the Lord one must confess to be saved. He alone made atonement for sin, His blood alone is for the forgiveness of sins. He alone rose from the dead bodily as the gospel declares. He alone is the Resurrection and the Life, He alone is the way, the truth and the life.

All the above is spelled out numerous times in the New Testament. There is not compromising the above.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

the wisdom of the world is foolishness to God. There is no workaround to be saved by avoiding the gospel of Jesus Christ. He alone is the Savior of the world. He alone saves one from their sins. He aone is the name above all names, He alone is the Lord one must confess to be saved. He alone made atonement for sin, His blood alone is for the forgiveness of sins. He alone rose from the dead bodily as the gospel declares. He alone is the Resurrection and the Life, He alone is the way, the truth and the life.

All the above is spelled out numerous times in the New Testament. There is not compromising the above.

hope this helps !!!

Then who forgave and changed the life of Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio?
Thousands of posts repeating the same empty rhetoric will not help you out.
Answer the question. Ask mom. Ask the children at Sunday School.
Kneel down and ask God in prayer today, on Christmas Day.

 

[Johann]

Dear friends

Merry Christmas to you all.

In the scenario, the man who repents genuinely is forgiven and transformed EVEN IF HE PRAYS TO AN AI-generated Jesus.
This is because forgiveness and spiritual regeneration is not the result of the wisdom or ignorance of man, but of the grace of God.
Salvation is an undeserved gift that does not depend on how good we are at interpreting Galatians or the gospel of John… or the human, divine, or digital nature and authority we adjudicate to the mediator.
The Catholic priest, for example, could be praying: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen”

God examines the heart of the sinner and operates the miracle, regardless of how superstitious, ignorant or intelligent the sinner is.
Remember that God loves the sinner and knows his heart. God is actively interested in making of that sinner a saint.

So, going to the scenario, and looking at the image below, let’s call

• Gurpreet the Sikh man on the left,
• Dwight the man in the middle, who prays to an AI-generated Jesus, and
• Antonio the Catholic priest on the right.

The three of them stole 1000 USD from the funds of their congregations, genuinely repented and became honest men for the rest of their lives.
Do you think that Antonio was forgiven and changed by God, but not Dwight and Gurpreet?
The question is for all to answer.

View attachment 1191

Stop posting effeminate pictures of men.

J.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Stop posting effeminate pictures of men.

J.

They are not effeminate. I can change the image as many times as you wish, though.
So, stop evading and start thinking.
Who forgave and changed the lives of Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio?
If you are unable or unwilling to think by yourself, try ChatGPT. Let’s see what answer it provides.

 

[civic]

Then who forgave and changed the life of Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio?
Thousands of posts repeating the same empty rhetoric will not help you out.
Answer the question. Ask mom. Ask the children at Sunday School.
Kneel down and ask God in prayer today, on Christmas Day.

no one according to the bible.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all,
addressing the OP.... 101G have just one question, was all the men in the scenario BORN again yes or No? that's all 101G needs to know. then 101G can reply.

101G.

 

[civic]

Then who forgave and changed the life of Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio?
Thousands of posts repeating the same empty rhetoric will not help you out.
Answer the question. Ask mom. Ask the children at Sunday School.
Kneel down and ask God in prayer today, on Christmas Day.

Not any AI

 

[Joe]

The Tanakh, which Jesus and his apostles considered inspired by God, has similar quotes and even more brutal passages.*
People who lived with Muhammed spoke of his high spiritual qualities and they are his witness.
Will you call Moses or Samuel false or evil prophets because they were the channels of God's will in brutal times of war?

However, you are diverting into a Muhammed, who lived 1400 years ago, forgetting your Jewish dentist, your Muslim coworker, your child's teacher of Math who is a Sikh, or your agnostic brother-in-law.
So let's say, for the sake of the argument, that Prophet Muhammed was the worst man on earth.

My argument continues to be the same:

We can't deny the reality that people from all religions and theological stances are being born into a new life or have been born in the past. Their pass from being men full of guilt, fear and hate, to men full of the spirit, is an undeniable testimony.



*REFERENCES

1. Deuteronomy 13:6-10 "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and worship other gods' (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery."
2. Deuteronomy 20:16-17: "However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you."
3. 1 Samuel 15:3: "totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys."
4. Numbers 31:17-18: "Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."

Hello Pancho,

There's only one true, real living God and that is the God of the Jewish people. The rest of mankind served false gods, and most certainly the demon possessed Muhammed that brought forth the devil's counter lie to the true God that He revealed through Jesus Christ.

God did not reveal Himself through the Gentiles. He revealed Himself through His chosen people the blood line of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob to the world.

There is only one way to God and that is through Jesus Christ. There is only one faith, one Lord, and one baptism not many faiths, many Lords, and many baptisms.

To judge the one true God and His ways through His chosen people is not up to man, but what is up to man is to repent-have a change of mind and stop worshiping false gods and the doctrines of demons and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Apostle Paul warns the Corinthian Gentile believers to stay true to God and not worship false gods and indulge in pagan revelry. Incorporating false faiths with the one true faith is akin to drinking from the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. We cannot mix the faiths of Gentiles with the faith given to us through Jesus Christ by God Himself.


God Bless

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

no one according to the bible.

Thanks for being honest, my brother.

Although I don’t believe that the Bible teaches what you say, if it were true that the Bible teaches that God did not forgive and transformed the life of Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio, my next questions to you would be

Why haven’t you thrown away your Bible to the thrash can (rubbish bin)?
How do you dare to preach the Bible as a good book?
How do you think I could be converted into your religion and follow your Bible?

 

[mikesw]

Then who forgave and changed the life of Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio?
Thousands of posts repeating the same empty rhetoric will not help you out.
Answer the question. Ask mom. Ask the children at Sunday School.
Kneel down and ask God in prayer today, on Christmas Day.

What would be better is for you to share the true Christ with them that they may be forgiven through the blood of Jesus. Stop conveying the idea (at best speculative but more likely terminal) that these guys might be saved from their sins by mere repentance. Even if they truly repented, it would just get them to a point of not being antagonistic. This would be like owing someone a million dollars and saying they are sorry they have not paid back the million dollars. These three AI generated religious people still would owe the true God the million dollars. If they come to Christ, Christ has paid the price for their sin. Did Pancho Frijoles learn nothing as a Seventh Day Adventist? Merry Christmas indeed.

 

[civic]

Thanks for being honest, my brother.

Although I don’t believe that the Bible teaches what you say, if it were true that the Bible teaches that God did not forgive and transformed the life of Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio, my next questions to you would be

Why haven’t you thrown away your Bible to the thrash can (rubbish bin)?
How do you dare to preach the Bible as a good book?
How do you think I could be converted into your religion and follow your Bible?

There is only one way to be saved according to Jesus and the Apostles teaching- through the gospel of Christ.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Hello Pancho,

There's only one true, real living God and that is the God of the Jewish people. The rest of mankind served false gods, and most certainly the demon possessed Muhammed that brought forth the devil's counter lie to the true God that He revealed through Jesus Christ.

God did not reveal Himself through the Gentiles. He revealed Himself through His chosen people the blood line of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob to the world.

The descendants from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob do not consider the Gentiles as dammed.
The chosen people, the Jews, see themselves as people chosen by God to be an example to the world. Not chosen to be the only ones to escape the flames of eternal hell.
So, le me ask you respectfully: why don’t we learn from the chosen people?
Any Jew can tell us that the Sikh and the Catholic were forgiven and transformed by God, not by Beelzebub.

So far, you are all invited to ask

• A little girl at Sunday School
• Your mom
• Your pastor
• The rabbi at the synagogue of your neighborhood,
• God in prayer

if God has forgiven and transformed Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio. They will all say “Yes”.
If you reply that the Bible teaches that God has not forgiven nor transformed any of the three, then you face two options

OPTION A You either re-read your. Bile under the light of love, compassion and reason
OPION B You throw away your Bible and never dare to preach it is a good book

 

[mikesw]

Thanks for being honest, my brother.

Although I don’t believe that the Bible teaches what you say, if it were true that the Bible teaches that God did not forgive and transformed the life of Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio, my next questions to you would be

Why haven’t you thrown away your Bible to the thrash can (rubbish bin)?
How do you dare to preach the Bible as a good book?
How do you think I could be converted into your religion and follow your Bible?

Those who are not accepting of the testimony of God's actions in scripture and those who only accept what they like in it and those who fail to recognize how God pointed to his sending of Christ Jesus -- they are basically acting ignorantly in their own interests and pretending they have some higher morality than God who created them. Pancho Frijoles favors an imaginary reconception of God to favor a metanarrative that is not found in scripture.

 

[civic]

Those who are not accepting of the testimony of God's actions in scripture and those who only accept what they like in it and those who fail to recognize how God pointed to his sending of Christ Jesus -- they are basically acting ignorantly in their own interests and pretending they have some higher morality than God who created them.

yep

 

[Joe]

There is only one way to be saved according to Jesus and the Apostles teaching- through the gospel of Christ.

Brother,

That is absolutely right. The "one faith" of Eph 4:5 means one truth to believe and that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And the Gospel of Jesus Christ includes His Divinity being God's Son. We may not understand it, but we certainly believe He is God's Son that He sent into this world in the flesh, being one of us in all ways, suffering and dying that our sins may be forgiven.

Dear friends

Merry Christmas to you all.

In the scenario, the man who repents genuinely is forgiven and transformed EVEN IF HE PRAYS TO AN AI-generated Jesus.
This is because forgiveness and spiritual regeneration is not the result of the wisdom or ignorance of man, but of the grace of God.
Salvation is an undeserved gift that does not depend on how good we are at interpreting Galatians or the gospel of John… or the human, divine, or digital nature and authority we adjudicate to the mediator.
The Catholic priest, for example, could be praying: “Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen”

God examines the heart of the sinner and operates the miracle, regardless of how superstitious, ignorant or intelligent the sinner is.
Remember that God loves the sinner and knows his heart. God is actively interested in making of that sinner a saint.

So, going to the scenario, and looking at the image below, let’s call

• Gurpreet the Sikh man on the left,
• Dwight the man in the middle, who prays to an AI-generated Jesus, and
• Antonio the Catholic priest on the right.

The three of them stole 1000 USD from the funds of their congregations, genuinely repented and became honest men for the rest of their lives.
Do you think that Antonio was forgiven and changed by God, but not Dwight and Gurpreet?
The question is for all to answer.

View attachment 1191

Pancho,

You stated, ""the man who repents genuinely is forgiven and transformed EVEN IF HE PRAYS TO AN AI-generated Jesus. This is because forgiveness and spiritual regeneration is not the result of the wisdom or ignorance of man, but of the grace of God"

You are suggesting one can pray to an idol. And then you completely bypass that forgiveness and spiritual regeneration is dependent upon faith in the person of Jesus Christ who is in Heaven. Yes, it is by God's grace that we are saved, but it is through faith in Jesus Christ, who is unseen!

What matters is, have they repented-had a change of mind for their unbelief in Christ and called out to Him to be saved. And calling out to a false god, your AI bot Jesus simulation will get one nowhere.

Praying to an object, especially a man made one is idolatry. And worshiping an AI generated Jesus is idolatry!

Praying by faith to the Jesus of His Gospel, who is alive and in Heaven results in forgiveness of sins, becoming a child of God, and being filled with God's Spirit who transforms our life by His power not us. The true, real Living God of the Jewish people is foretold to be the One who causes us to live rightly, and He comes by faith in the real, true Living Jesus, who is unseen because He is in Heaven.

You can keep playing the living righteous card all you want, but the truth is Jesus Christ died for all because we are all dead in sin, and the only salvation is by faith in Him, and Him alone. A thief can see the error of their way and pray to an object all they want, nothing will save him from his sin. Or a thief can hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, see the error of their way and call out by faith to the Lord to save him; and this will result in the salvation of his soul.

(Tit 2:11-14) For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men (This is God's Son that He gave, and who died for our sins and arose for our life), teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Notice the red bold text. The Apostle Paul knew for fact that Jesus Christ is our Great God and Savior. Just wanted to draw you attention once again that Jesus is God in the flesh.

(Rom 8:1-4) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The only way to live righteously is by faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who upon faith and calling out to Him, we are in Him and receive the Spirit of God, of whom we live our life by and not our flesh. No one can earn God's forgiveness by trying to live morally, the giving of the Law proved that line of thinking wrong. And without the Spirit of God causing us to live rightly, we cannot do it. Man may deceive himself and others that we can, but God says we cannot, for "those who are in the flesh cannot please God".


God Bless

 

[civic]

Brother,

That is absolutely right. The "one faith" of Eph 4:5 means one truth to believe and that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And the Gospel of Jesus Christ includes His Divinity being God's Son. We may not understand it, but we certainly believe He is God's Son that He sent into this world in the flesh, being one of us in all ways, suffering and dying that our sins may be forgiven.


Pancho,

You stated, ""the man who repents genuinely is forgiven and transformed EVEN IF HE PRAYS TO AN AI-generated Jesus. This is because forgiveness and spiritual regeneration is not the result of the wisdom or ignorance of man, but of the grace of God"

You are suggesting one can pray to an idol. And then you completely bypass that forgiveness and spiritual regeneration is dependent upon faith in the person of Jesus Christ who is in Heaven. Yes, it is by God's grace that we are saved, but it is through faith in Jesus Christ, who is unseen!

What matters is, have they repented-had a change of mind for their unbelief in Christ and called out to Him to be saved. And calling out to a false god, your AI bot Jesus simulation will get one nowhere.

Praying to an object, especially a man made one is idolatry. And worshiping an AI generated Jesus is idolatry!

Praying by faith to the Jesus of His Gospel, who is alive and in Heaven results in forgiveness of sins, becoming a child of God, and being filled with God's Spirit who transforms our life by His power not us. The true, real Living God of the Jewish people is foretold to be the One who causes us to live rightly, and He comes by faith in the real, true Living Jesus, who is unseen because He is in Heaven.

You can keep playing the living righteous card all you want, but the truth is Jesus Christ died for all because we are all dead in sin, and the only salvation is by faith in Him, and Him alone. A thief can see the error of their way and pray to an object all they want, nothing will save him from his sin. Or a thief can hear the Gospel of Jesus Christ, see the error of their way and call out by faith to the Lord to save him; and this will result in the salvation of his soul.

(Tit 2:11-14) For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men (This is God's Son that He gave, and who died for our sins and arose for our life), teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Notice the red bold text. The Apostle Paul knew for fact that Jesus Christ is our Great God and Savior. Just wanted to draw you attention once again that Jesus is God in the flesh.

(Rom 8:1-4) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The only way to live righteously is by faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who upon faith and calling out to Him, we are in Him and receive the Spirit of God, of whom we live our life by and not our flesh. No one can earn God's forgiveness by trying to live morally, the giving of the Law proved that line of thinking wrong. And without the Spirit of God causing us to live rightly, we cannot do it. Man may deceive himself and others that we can, but God says we cannot, for "those who are in the flesh cannot please God".


God Bless

Amen !

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You are suggesting one can pray to an idol.

Hi Joe:

Thanks for your post.
I am suggesting that a person can be wrong about her Theology, and still be heard by God, forgiven and changed.
This is because God does not forgive us because we are intellectually right about doctrine, but spiritually humbled. Do you agree with me?

King David was forgiven and renewed without having confessed any belief in the deity, substitutionary atonement or physical resurrection of a future Messiah. What David did was to come to God with a contrite, broken heart.

I have also presented explicit evidence of how Jesus explained several times, in several ways, that God forgives for free, without demanding any doctrinal confession. Otherwise salvation would be merit-based.

And then you completely bypass that forgiveness and spiritual regeneration is dependent upon faith in the person of Jesus Christ who is in Heaven. Yes, it is by God's grace that we are saved, but it is through faith in Jesus Christ, who is unseen!

What matters is, have they repented-had a change of mind for their unbelief in Christ and called out to Him to be saved.

The reality is that Millions repent genuinely without changing their mind about Jesus deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection.
Do you really think that God turns his eyes away from the Sikh who stole the 1000 USD until he happens to convert to Christianism ?
Do you really think that Beelzebub was responsible for the renewal of the life of that man into an honest man?

And calling out to a false god, your AI bot Jesus simulation will get one nowhere.

Praying to an object, especially a man made one is idolatry. And worshiping an AI generated Jesus is idolatry!

I don’t know why any person would pray to an AI-generated Jesus. That was the idea that @synergy brought to the original scenario, that included only then Sikh and the. Catholic priest.
What I think he had in mind is a sinner who does not know that the Jesus He prays to has been generated by AI.
For example: you are treating me as if I were a real human being (which I am) but who could you tell I am a bot generated by AI?
Some years from now, you won’t be able to tell the difference.
However, the kindness you express to me in your posts will be received by God as if that bot were a real human.

That’s the reason I say that it is not our ignorance or brilliance which makes the difference. It is God’s grace.

The only way to live righteously is by faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ,

I don’t understand.
It is clear that Grupeet and Antonio were dishonest, and it is clear that they are not dishonest anymore.
So, was it God or Belzebub who renewed their hearts?

 

[synergy]

Who forgave and changed the lives of Grupeet, Dwight and Antonio?
If you are unable or unwilling to think by yourself, try ChatGPT. Let’s see what answer it provides.

Merry Christmas to one and all! God bless us everyone.

Forgiveness can be given and was given before the Salvation that the Cross and Pentecost made possible:

(Psalm 51:17) The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
A broken and a contrite heart—
These, O God, You will not despise.

Now the Cross and Pentecost has made Salvation possible for all those who believe. What about those who do not believe out of no fault of their own such as Chinese in the deepest part of China who have never heard of Christ? Forgiveness is available to them but what about Salvation? Is that available to them? Read Rom 2:13-16. Notice that the Salvation criteria is and always will be the Gospel (the Cross Resurrection, and Ascension of Christ).

13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

This shows how Baha'u'llah's attempt to usurp the 2nd coming of Christ and the Paraclete is a blaspemous big disservice it is to God.

Also, I've have proven that allah is no better than an AI generated Manifestation. In fact, he is worse because he denies the Cross, considers Genesis to be a pagan myth, and has no use whatsoever for Pentecost. Allah is demonic in other words.

 

[Johann]

It depends, I guess, on which sources you read. I just asked Microsoft Copilot few minutes ago a question in a language as neutral as possible (above, in blue: "How was the character of Muhammad according to historians?"), and the result is what you see.
Now, why not to talk about El Volka? I don't remember having read your comments on my teacher of Chemistry at High School.
Why not about Pancho Frijoles? I can share my personal testimony.

View attachment 1162

And Muhammad was like Judas-NOT saved.

J.