God's grace to forgive and transform is not conditioned to recognizing Jesus' deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection

[Pancho Frijoles]

You are a true disciple to your god of death (allah). You befriend death, warm up to it, embrace it, love it. cuddle it, etc...

Without the Cross, all there is is death. Your god of death has no power over death. Your choice.

Allah has power over your life and death. That is why He is Creator, and Sustainer, and Destroyer of everything that exists.
Next time you take a shower, take a long, contemplative look to your body (well… shut off the water first to avoid wasting too much).
That body is not the one you had last year! The one you had last year is now the body of bacteria, fungi, grass, trees, mice and cows.
About 98% of the atoms that constitute your body are replaced every year. In some sense You are already dead, man!. It is your conscious, rational soul which gives you the perception of personal continuity.
So stop clinging to physicality. Thank God for it, use it wisely, enjoy it, and then, when the time comes, let it go.
The Kingdom of God is reflected in this world, but it is not of this world.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Your choice.​

I’ve chosen to love God and to love you, synergy.
That means trying to understand your perspective, defending you from false accusations, respecting your choices, being patient with you, correcting you with humbleness when needed, asking you to forgive me when I fail to do it, and hoping until the last day of my life that you embrace men from all religions as part of God’s family.

“You must become of one heart, one spirit and one susceptibility. May you become as the waves of one sea, stars of the same heaven, fruits adorning the same tree, roses of one garden in order that through you the oneness of humanity may establish its temple in the world of mankind, for you are the ones who are called to uplift the cause of unity among the nations of the earth.” (Bahá’u’lláh)​

 

[synergy]

Allah has power over your life and death. That is why He is Creator, and Sustainer, and Destroyer of everything that exists.

Allah doesn't even have power over death. So how can he possibly create life? His statements are just baloney. Without the Cross and Resurrection, all there is is death.

Next time you take a shower, take a long, contemplative look to your body (well… shut off the water first to avoid wasting too much).
That body is not the one you had last year! The one you had last year is now the body of bacteria, fungi, grass, trees, mice and cows.
About 98% of the atoms that constitute your body are replaced every year. In some sense You are already dead, man!. It is your conscious, rational soul which gives you the perception of personal continuity.
So stop clinging to physicality. Thank God for it, use it wisely, enjoy it, and then, when the time comes, let it go.
The Kingdom of God is reflected in this world, but it is not of this world.

You continue to be a true disciple to your god of death (allah). You continue to befriend death, warm up to it, embrace it, love it. cuddle it, etc.... It's time to snap out of Allah's deceptive culture of death and come over to Him (God of the Bible) who has demonstrated that indeed He does have power over death.

 

[synergy]

I’ve chosen to worship Allah and to love you.
The inexhaustible Mercy (Rahman) of Allah makes me love you. That means trying to understand your perspective, defending you from false accusations, respecting your choices, being patient with you, correcting you when needed, and hoping until the last day of my life that you embrace all men as leaves of the same tree, waves of the same sea, and flowers of the same garden.

My perspective is that the true God does not promote pagan myths nor is he powerless against death. How can you possibly argue against that?

I'm sure we both believe the following: "better are the wounds of a friend, than the deceitful kisses of an enemy."

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Allah doesn't even have power over death. So how can he possibly create life?

You ask yourself such question because you still haven’t realized that, in the physical realm, death is inherent to life.
Death is recycling and rebirth. That is how Allah creates and sustains life.

“I am the Lord, and there is no other
I form the light and create darkness;
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.” (Isaiah 45:6,7)

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

My perspective is that the true God does not promote pagan myths nor is he powerless against death. How can you possibly argue against that?

Myths are not lies. Do you agree?
Men who expect myths to be historical accounts make them appear as lies.
Men who expect myths to be myths, profit from them .

I'm sure we both believe the following: "better are the wounds of a friend, than the deceitful kisses of an enemy."

Friends do not cause wounds, but I get your point.

 

[synergy]

You ask yourself such question because you still haven’t realized that, in the physical realm, death is inherent to life.
Death is recycling and rebirth. That is how Allah creates and sustains life.

“I am the Lord, and there is no other
I form the light and create darkness;
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.” (Isaiah 45:6,7)

Cor 4:4 explains exactly what allah, your god of this world, satan in other words, is doing to all Muslims like you.

(Cor 4:4) In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God

Your god of death, allah, has clearly blinded you to the Gospel which is the Cross, the death and Resurrection of Christ.

 

[synergy]

Myths are not lies. Do you agree?
Men who expect myths to be historical accounts make them appear as lies.
Men who expect myths to be myths, profit from them .

Your position is that the following verse (Gen 3:19) is a lie. That belief conforms very well with your god of lies, allah.

In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

Friends do not cause wounds, but I get your point.

I'm alarmed that satan (allah) has done such a masterful job of blinding all Muslims like you to the Truth of the Cross.

 

[mikesw]

Your position is that the following verse (Gen 3:19) is a lie. That belief conforms very well with your god of lies, allah.

In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

I'm alarmed that satan (allah) has done such a masterful job of blinding all Muslims like you to the Truth of the Cross.

@Pancho Frijoles is weird and inconsistent. He stated that he was Seventh Day Adventist and then became Baha'i but then he tends to hold to Islam beliefs while denying who Christ obviously is. You have to guess which one of these views he speaks from. Except, he never seems to speak from anything truly Christian. He cannot be speaking from a misguided Christian view since he is too far off Christian beliefs.

 

[synergy]

@Pancho Frijoles is weird and inconsistent. He stated that he was Seventh Day Adventist and then became Baha'i but then he tends to hold to Islam beliefs while denying who Christ obviously is. You have to guess which one of these views he speaks from. Except, he never seems to speak from anything truly Christian. He cannot be speaking from a misguided Christian view since he is too far off Christian beliefs.

He makes a thousand excuses for that god of death, allah. He loathes the Cross, desecrates Genesis, and befriends death. It is truly weird, as you say.

 

[mikesw]

I don't feel like searching where Pancho Frijoles last said that all religions get people to the same god by virtue of repenting to their god. Anyhow, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob requires more than that -- and thus is outside the realm of the gods Pancho Frijoles represents.
I found this insightful detail about Deut 30:6

God himself will carry out the inward renewal of Israel (circumcise your heart), so that Israel will love Yahweh with all their heart. By his own gracious activity he will reconstitute Israel. Repentance in itself will not suffice. Perhaps, indeed, the origin of repentance itself lies in the divine activity. Certainly, the origin of heart-love for Yahweh lies in Yahweh himself.

J. A. Thompson, Deuteronomy: An Introduction and Commentary, vol. 5, Tyndale Old Testament Commentaries (InterVarsity Press, 1974), 311.

 

[DavidTree]

Allah has power over your life and death. That is why He is Creator, and Sustainer, and Destroyer of everything that exists.
Next time you take a shower, take a long, contemplative look to your body (well… shut off the water first to avoid wasting too much).
That body is not the one you had last year! The one you had last year is now the body of bacteria, fungi, grass, trees, mice and cows.
About 98% of the atoms that constitute your body are replaced every year. In some sense You are already dead, man!. It is your conscious, rational soul which gives you the perception of personal continuity.
So stop clinging to physicality. Thank God for it, use it wisely, enjoy it, and then, when the time comes, let it go.
The Kingdom of God is reflected in this world, but it is not of this world.

Allah has power over your life and death. That is why He is Creator, and Sustainer, and Destroyer of everything that exists.

Allah is a false god = no one can be saved or forgiven this way


And God spoke all these words, saying,
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. - Exodus 20:1-3

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Allah is a false god = no one can be saved or forgiven this way


And God spoke all these words, saying,
I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. - Exodus 20:1-3

Is the God of the Jews a false God?
Is the God of Calvinists a false God?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I'm alarmed that satan (allah) has done such a masterful job of blinding all Muslims like you to the Truth of the Cross.

I’m not a Muslim and I believe in the power of the cross.
What I don’t believe is that God demands blood in exchange of mercy.

 

[synergy]

I’m not a Muslim and I believe in the power of the cross.

Do you really? Without the Cross there is no Resurrection for any of us.

What I don’t believe is that God demands blood in exchange of mercy.

In all our discussions about the Cross, you've always taken the side of Allah. You continue to follow Allah not Jesus. Thus, you are a fundamentally a Muslim.

 

[DavidTree]

Is the God of the Jews a false God?
Is the God of Calvinists a false God?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already,
because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.
For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.
But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

When you share this verse with a Jew, with the intention of preaching Christ to him or her, you assume that when the verse says "For God so loved the world", the Jew knows what God you are talking about. He does not think you are talking about Zeus or Hermes, but about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, right?

So, regardless on whether the Jew is persuaded that Jesus was the Messiah or not, at least you can assume that his God is the Only and True God. Otherwise, you wouldn't be talking about God with him in the first place. Do you agree?

Same with a Muslim. If you share this verse with him, you don't need to explain to him what the word "God" in John 3:16 means. He understands that you are referring to Allah. In fact, he can argue that certainly Allah sent Jesus to the world as a Messenger (and then debate his disagreements with the title "only begotten son").

By the same token, if you are debating with a Calvinist and show him John 3:16, you may debate on the meaning of "whoever believes in Him", but you won't debate on the term "God".

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Do you really? Without the Cross there is no Resurrection for any of us.

The power of the cross, to me, is the power to inspire us to kill the old man, and submit our lives to God in obedience and love as Jesus did.
This is why Jesus, in the only mentioning he made to the cross in the gospels, he asked us to take our own cross and follow him.
If we follow the meaning of the cross, we will be resurrected into a new life.

So, to me it is not the events of Jesus crucifixion and resurrection what matter, but their meaning to my life.
If they happened as you believe, good.
If Jesus atoned for my sins, excellent.
If Jesus resurrected physically, praise God.

I don't need to believe those things to profit from the cross and resurrection.

In all our discussions about the Cross, you've always taken the side of Allah. You continue to follow Allah not Jesus. Thus, you are a fundamentally a Muslim.

I have taken the side of Paul, who stresses the spiritual significance of the cross and resurrection.
If in addition to this, you want to give it a literal meaning of a substitutionary atonement and physicality of resurrected bodies, I don't have any problem with that... as long as you don't demand people to believe as you do in order to be forgiven and transformed.

 

[mikesw]

When you share this verse with a Jew, with the intention of preaching Christ to him or her, you assume that when the verse says "For God so loved the world", the Jew knows what God you are talking about. He does not think you are talking about Zeus or Hermes, but about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, right?

So, regardless on whether the Jew is persuaded that Jesus was the Messiah or not, at least you can assume that his God is the Only and True God. Otherwise, you wouldn't be talking about God with him in the first place. Do you agree?

Same with a Muslim. If you share this verse with him, you don't need to explain to him what the word "God" in John 3:16 means. He understands that you are referring to Allah. In fact, he can argue that certainly Allah sent Jesus to the world as a Messenger (and then debate his disagreements with the title "only begotten son").

By the same token, if you are debating with a Calvinist and show him John 3:16, you may debate on the meaning of "whoever believes in Him", but you won't debate on the term "God".

That would be appropriation of Jewish/Christian writing of who God is. The Allah god is not a concept accepted with Judaism or Christianity and has different characteristics from the true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. the disagreement with "only begotten son" certainly indicates they do not accept the message of the verse. It is utter nonsense to take John 3:16-17 out of its context and meaning and unique identities. To take it out of context is a very desperate act to deny the truth of Christ. If a Muslim uses this verse to apply outside of the identity of the true God and of who Christ is, that is a perversion and deception. God even is reportedly leading people out of the Islam religion to Christ through dreams and miracles -- even though we hear in some places where people ignorantly choose to become Muslims.

 

[DavidTree]

When you share this verse with a Jew, with the intention of preaching Christ to him or her, you assume that when the verse says "For God so loved the world", the Jew knows what God you are talking about. He does not think you are talking about Zeus or Hermes, but about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, right?

So, regardless on whether the Jew is persuaded that Jesus was the Messiah or not, at least you can assume that his God is the Only and True God. Otherwise, you wouldn't be talking about God with him in the first place. Do you agree?

Same with a Muslim. If you share this verse with him, you don't need to explain to him what the word "God" in John 3:16 means. He understands that you are referring to Allah. In fact, he can argue that certainly Allah sent Jesus to the world as a Messenger (and then debate his disagreements with the title "only begotten son").

By the same token, if you are debating with a Calvinist and show him John 3:16, you may debate on the meaning of "whoever believes in Him", but you won't debate on the term "God".

Have you read Genesis? - all of it?