Johann
Well-known member
True-some are wolves in sheep's clothing openly-for all to see, others covertly, like snakes going for the Achilles heel.
J.
God's grace to forgive and transform is not conditioned to recognizing Jesus' deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection
- Thread starter Pancho Frijoles
- Start date
J.
civic
Well-known member
Ditto and you are discerning enough to know the difference my friend
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
May God keep blessing you and your family with all that He has in store for you, my brother.
I take advantage of this opportunity to remind every one
I want you all to remain Christians.
I want you all to embrace each other as brothers, even if your brother is doctrinally wrong.
I want you all to recognize that God will not despise a broken-heart, even if the sinner is wrong in doctrine.
I want you all to understand that, before the eyes of God "believing in Christ" and "living the life of Christ" are one and the same thing.
That is my battle.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
That "full detail" didn't include any reference to the need to believe in a substitutionary blood atonement as a condition to be forgiven.
The text I posted is eloquent. Zero blood atonement.
So, it seems that, if Christ really wanted to teach that, for some reason he MISSED the best opportunity to have taught their disciples... since they were talking about the crucifixion!
The Road of Emmaus proves Christ was not interested in teaching that doctrine.
Well, it seems Jesus didn't explain it after the victory of the cross anyway.
Conclusion: Salvific Forgiveness does not require, as a condition, belief in Jesus deity, substitutionary atonement and physical resurrection.
Any god that needs blood in exchange for mercy is an imposter.
Any god that sends Sikhs to hell for being Sikhs is a genocidal imposter. Reject it!
Johann
Well-known member
We've managed to talk past each other for the past day or two because of semantics. That's everyone's fault including myself. We all need to be clear on definitions.
You have been talking about Foregiveness Level #4. We have been talking about Foregiveness Level #5. We are talking past each other.
- Interpersonal forgiveness heals individual relationships.
- Social forgiveness addresses collective or societal wrongs.
- Psychological forgiveness focuses on personal emotional healing.
- Divine forgiveness is granted by God, often requiring repentance.
- Salvific forgiveness represents the ultimate forgiveness, bringing the individual to eternal peace and spiritual salvation through the Cross.
In the ancient world, believing and doing were one and the same. Only in the last millenia or so has belief and activity been separated from each other.
Are we talking about the same verses? Luke 24:25-31. They talk about what Christ had to suffer (the Cross) and Christ expounded to them everything concerning Himself.
And that's not all. He took bread, blessed it, broke it, they ate it and their eyes were opened! That's the Lord's Supper! The Lords Supper is a direct link to the Cross. Of course you're going to scoff at this because you follow the Allah Imposter and the Baha'u'llah Usurper.
25 Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26 Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?”
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
28 Then they drew near to the village where they were going, and He [h]indicated that He would have gone farther.
29 But they constrained Him, saying, “Abide with us, for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent.” And He went in to stay with them.
30 Now it came to pass, as He sat at the table with them, that He took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them.
31 Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.
Johann
Well-known member
Incorrect-
Faith in Jesus' Deity is Essential for Salvation
John 8:24: "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins. For unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins."
Jesus explicitly states that belief in His divine identity ("I am he," a reference to Yahweh) is required for salvation. Rejecting His deity means remaining in sin.
That I am he (hoti egō eimi). Indirect discourse, but with no word in the predicate after the copula eimi. Jesus can mean either “that I am from above” (Joh_8:23), “that I am the one sent from the Father or the Messiah” (Joh_7:18, Joh_7:28), “that I am the Light of the World” (Joh_8:12), “that I am the Deliverer from the bondage of sin” (Joh_8:28, Joh_8:31., and Joh_8:36), “that I am” without supplying a predicate in the absolute sense as the Jews (Deu_32:39) used the language of Jehovah (cf. Isa_43:10 where the very words occur hina pisteusēte-hoti egō eimi). The phrase egō eimi occurs three times here (Joh_8:24, Joh_8:28, Joh_8:58) and also in Joh_13:19. Jesus seems to claim absolute divine being as in Joh_8:58.
Romans 10:9: "If you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
that if you confess -- Confessing the Lord Jesus is the righteousness of faith (v.6 Rom_10:6) described.
confess -- The word here rendered “confess” ὁμολογέω homologeō is often rendered “profess”; Mat_7:23, Tit_1:16; Tit_3:14; Rom_1:22; 1Ti_2:10; 1Ti_6:12-13, 1Ti_6:21; Heb_3:1, etc. It properly means to "say the same thing"; to “speak what agrees with something which others speak or maintain."
Lord Jesus -- That is, "Jesus to be Lord" Act_2:36; Act_10:36; 1Co_12:3; 2Co_4:5; Php_2:11; Col_2:6; (1Jn_4:15
The use of "Lord" related to the rabbinical substitution of YHWH with Adon when reading Scripture. - Utley [Hence it means confessing the deity of Jesus Christ.]
with you mouth -- That in spite of all persecution and danger you own up to your faith (trust) in Jesus as your Savior, the sacrifice for your sins, your mediator before the Father.
To openly confess Christ in those days of persecution was a trial of faith of the severest kind.
and believe in your heart -- A genuine faith that is not pretending, but a belief that brings the whole man into loving trust and obedience to Christ. Such a faith is referred to in Rom_1:5, where the "obedience of faith" is described. (See the note there and also Rom_16:26)
that God has raised Him from the dead, -- This article is put for all the rest, the incarnation, the sinless life, the sacrificial death, the resurrection and ascension back into heaven to be seated on the right hand of God making intercession for the saints. Rom_4:25
In a skeptical world this was then and now the heart of gospel preaching. (Proclaimed in every sermon recorded in Acts.)
you will be saved -- Forgiven of sins, and stand justified before God, and an inheritor of heaven.
Confessing Jesus as Lord (a title denoting divine authority) is non-negotiable for salvation. It is a direct acknowledgment of His deity.
2. The Blood Atonement is the Basis of Forgiveness
Ephesians 1:7: "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace."
Forgiveness is explicitly tied to the atoning blood of Jesus. Grace is dispensed through His sacrificial death, not apart from it.
In whom -- "The Beloved" that ends Eph_1:6, is described as the One "in whom we have redemption.
we have -- εχομεν we have, G2192 V-PAI-1P "in whom we are having redemption".
we have redemption -- (G629, N-ASF) The verb is a present participle, so it is durative in action, thus, "in whom we are having redemption." The redemption G629 N-ASF is an abiding fact from the past, through the present, and into the future.
redemption -- The word "redemption" is apolutrôsis which Thayer defines as follows; the verb, "to redeem one by paying the price, to let one go free on receiving the price"; the noun, "a releasing effected by payment of ransom, deliverance, liberation procured by the payment of a ransom."
The story of redemption can be told in three Greek words; agorazô, "to buy in the slave market" (1Co_6:20, 1Co_7:23, 1Co_7:30, 2Pe_2:1, Rev_5:9).
The Lord Jesus bought us in the slave market of sin, the ransom price, His blood; we are his bondslaves; exagorazô, "to buy out of the slave market, to buy off, to buy for one's self" (Gal_3:13, Gal_4:5).
The redeemed are the possession of the Lord Jesus forever, and will never be put up for sale in any slave market again; lutroô "to liberate by payment of ransom" (Tit_2:14, 1Pe_1:18); the redeemed are set free from the guilt and power of sin now, to be finally set free from the presence of sin...
The particular aspect of redemption spoken of here is redemption from the guilt and condemnation of sin, for the qualifying phrase, "the forgiveness of sins" is added. - Wuest
redemption -- Involves 5 basic matters:
1) Those in need of redemption - the lost
2) Someone to do the redeeming - the redeemer
3) The price for redemption - the ransom
4) The actual paying of the price - redemption
5) Those who receive the benefit - the redeemed
through his blood -- The preposition "through" is dia, the preposition of intermediate agency.
blood -- the price paid for our redemption - Act_20:28; 1Pe_1:18-19. The out-poured blood of the Son of God at the Cross is the lutron, "the price for redeeming, the ransom," used of the act of buying slaves, of paying the ransom for a life or of captives.
The "blood" of Christ sums up the whole process of giving up his life. We should not simply think of the red liquid substance of blood, but the entire whole of a life-sacrifice freely surrendered out of love. - WG
forgiveness -- αφεσιν G859, The noun aphesis, used in relation to "sins," means "a release, the letting them go as if they had not been committed, thus, forgiveness, a remission of their penalty" (Thayer). Trench says that the image underlying the verb is that of releasing a prisoner (Isa_61:1), or letting go, as of a debt (Deu_15:3).
of sins [our trespasses] -- Heb_9:22; Mat_26:28. παραπτωματων G3900 ; The particular word for "sins" here is paraptôma, and means, "a fall beside or near something; a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness, a sin, a misdeed, a trespass."
(This is a different word from the usual "sin" ἁμαρτία, hamartia; = to miss the mark. And better translated "trespasses" here, Mat_6:14.)
our -- Notice the plural pronoun article, "our" sins.
Hebrews 9:22: "And almost all things are purified with blood according to the law, and apart from the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness."
Without the shedding of Jesus’ blood, forgiveness of sins is impossible. This directly contradicts any claim that grace operates independently of the atonement.
1 Peter 1:18-19: "You know that you were redeemed from your futile way of life inherited from your ancestors, not with perishable things like silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of an unblemished and spotless lamb."
Transformation and redemption are only possible through the blood of Jesus.
3. The Resurrection is Central to Salvation
1 Corinthians 15:17: "And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is empty; you are still in your sins."
Paul unequivocally ties the efficacy of salvation to Jesus' resurrection. Without it, faith is meaningless, and sin remains unforgiven.
Romans 4:25: "Who was handed over because of our trespasses and was raised up for the sake of our justification."
Jesus’ resurrection is essential for our justification. Without believing in His resurrection, one cannot experience the transformation that comes through salvation.
4. The Exclusive Path to God is Through Christ
John 14:6: "Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’"
Grace cannot bypass Jesus or His work. Any attempt to access God apart from Christ is invalid according to Scripture.
Acts 4:12: "And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved."
Salvation is exclusively through Jesus Christ, including recognition of His person and work.
5. Faith Must Be Placed in the Full Gospel
1 Corinthians 15:3-4: "For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures."
The gospel, which is the power of God for salvation (Romans 1:16), includes Jesus’ death for sins, His burial, and His resurrection. Denying or neglecting any part of this message renders faith incomplete and ineffective.
Conclusion
God’s grace is not some vague or arbitrary favor. It is specifically mediated through Jesus Christ, His deity, His atoning death, and His resurrection. To deny or dismiss these truths is to reject the very means by which God extends forgiveness and transformation. Galatians 1:6-9 warns against any gospel that deviates from this foundational message, declaring such distortions as accursed.
@Pancho Frijoles claim in question is therefore biblically indefensible. He knows it, so do I.
J.
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Johann
Well-known member
Is that so? Maybe he’s hesitant to share Babulah’s teachings here-but let’s leave him aside for now.
Are you a Unitarian?
Unitarians typically reject the doctrine of the Trinity, holding that God is one singular person rather than three distinct persons in one essence. They often see Jesus as a prophet, moral teacher, or uniquely inspired individual but not as God in the flesh. Their theology emphasizes reason, free will, and a personal interpretation of Scripture or spiritual truth.
Summary: Unitarians deny the Trinity, view God as one person, and see Jesus as non-divine, focusing on reason and individual interpretation of faith.
Yes?
What's YOUR theme of spiritual transformation?
Hence my question-are you Unitarian?
No, the BBS don't deny that it is God adding to His ekklesia.
Regurgitating scripture can make you-or anyone for that matter- sound very "spiritual" and demons can quote scripture. What should we "look" for?
Again, are you Unitarian and give me your definition of being "spiritually transformed?"
Thanks.
J.
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Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Good morning, @civic and @synergy
We are talking about the same verses.
There is no hint whatsoever in those verses that Christ had explained the need to believe in a substitutionary atonement in order to get forgiveness from God.
So, either you are not reading the verses, or you are making things up to suit your theology.
The Christ had to suffer so that what prophets have predicted in Scriptures could be fulfilled: that the true Messiah "had to suffer to enter his glory". Scriptures NEVER EVER predicted that God would change the terms of his mercy, demanding people to believe in a Messiah who would pay a debt to God with his own blood. Jesus NEVER EVER preached to be prepared for a change in requirements. All the contrary, every single time he preached about forgiveness, he stressed that God's forgiveness is FOR FREE, to anyone who comes to Him sincerely repented.
In regard to the Lord Supper, there is no hint whatsoever that Jesus used this to teach the need to believe in a blood substitutionary atonement to obtain forgiveness. When Jesus mentioned the wine as symbol of his blood for forgiveness, He did it in the context of the Passover, when people sacrificed and ate a lamb. Salvation was not based on the sacrifice of animals, but on the sacrifice of our lives, as He was showing. It is up to each one of us to take our cross and follow him (Matthew 10:38, Mark 10:21, Luke 9:23). We are called to get crucified with Him, die to our old ways and be resurrected with Him to a new life. That's the only way to "eat his flesh" and "drink his blood". That's the way to be forgiven and transformed.
All humans have to go through the same process: get the old man crucified, and be resurrected to the new man.
And this is not the result of adhering to a theological statement. Otherwise even demons would be saints.
****
The God who Jesus worshiped is the Only and True God.
Any god that demands blood in exchange of mercy is an impostor.
Any god that plans to torture or destroy groups of people for their religious convictions is a genocidal impostor.
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civic
Well-known member
Jesus did it when He instituted the Lords supper for all believers with the wine and the bread representing His blood and His body which was given for the forgiveness of sins. He called it the New Covenant through His own blood.
Also for something to be true God only has to say it once. But we have many passages that teach Jesus blood is tied to the forgiveness of our sins.
Matthew 26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Dear @civic and @synergy
In the eyes of God, and for all salvific purposes, believing and doing are the same thing.
Jesus taught that hearing to his words and acting accordingly was the same process of building a house that resist destruction.
Jesus taught that calling him "Lord" had no inherent importance, but to do the will of His Father.
James emphasized that faith without works is not faith.
John emphasized that only those who keep God's commandments are in Christ and know God.
So, everytime the Scriptures say that we are saved by faith, it MEANS we are saved by keeping God's commandments.
This is salvation by grace, as only God's grace enable us to do that.
In contrast, a salvation based on confessing a creed, is a doctrine of demons. Demons can also confess a creed... any creed whatsoever.
civic
Well-known member
no we are saved by faith which results in good works- see Ephesians 2:8-10. Works are the evidence we are saved- the fruit of the Spirit at work in the believer.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Hi, @civic
What is the new covenant that the blood Christ was representing? What were its terms?
Please read with me in Jeremiah 31:31-34
Surely, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
It will not be according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, because they broke My covenant, although I was a husband to them, says the Lord.
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord:
I will put My law within them and write it in their hearts;
and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
They shall teach no more every man his neighbor and every man his brother, saying, “Know the Lord,” for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord,
for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
The new covenant is based on an inner change that makes us keep God's Law out of love.
The first covenant implied rituals, such as animal sacrifices. The new covenant would make that unnecessary.
Please notice in the last verse how having God's Law embedded in our hearts is linked to God's forvigeness: "for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."
Under the new covenant, forgiveness of iniquities is understood as a matter of spiritual change of the heart, not the result of rituals.
So, Jesus sacrifice and blood shedding closed the first covenant and open the new covenant, in which the sacrifice is the sacrifice of our hearts, our lives. It is a spiritual sacrifice. Please remember what the Samaritan woman was concerned about, and what Jesus responded.
The Samaritan woman was worried about whether animal sacrifices should be performed in Mount Gerizim or at the Temple of Jerusalem
Jesus predicted: Yet the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. For the Father seeks such to worship Him (John 4:23)
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
In conclusion, based on the post above, my dear brother @civic
If we take Jesus sacrifice as a matter of payment in exchange of mercy, we are indeed still living in the old covenant: the old way of thinking about sacrifices and blood, in which, as the Torah said, "without shedding of blood there is no remission of sins".
In contrast, if we take Jesus sacrifice as a call to perform a spiritual sacrifice of our own lives, we live under the new covenant, in which we have "crucified" the old man and we have "been born again" (or resurrected) into a new man.
This is well supported by Scripture. Please read in Romans 12:1:
Please compare Romans 12:1 with what Jesus said in John 4:23.
The "living sacrifice" that Paul presents is our "reasonable service of worship". This is what Jesus presented as "worship the Father in spirit and truth".
Therefore, the true value of the crucifixion of Christ in our personal salvation is that it moves us to crucify our past life. The true value of the resurrection of Christ in our personal salvation is that it moves us to live a new life.
This is not Pancho's Frijoles interpretation. This is Scripture:
So, instead of asking the repented Sikh who stole 1000 USD: "Do you believe that Jesus paid for your sins on the cross? Do you believe that Jesus was resurrected with a physical body?" The real questions are "Have you died to your old way of living? Are you living now as an honest man?"
If the answer is positive, we can be sure that the Sikh has profited from the death and resurrection of Christ.
If we take Jesus sacrifice as a matter of payment in exchange of mercy, we are indeed still living in the old covenant: the old way of thinking about sacrifices and blood, in which, as the Torah said, "without shedding of blood there is no remission of sins".
In contrast, if we take Jesus sacrifice as a call to perform a spiritual sacrifice of our own lives, we live under the new covenant, in which we have "crucified" the old man and we have "been born again" (or resurrected) into a new man.
This is well supported by Scripture. Please read in Romans 12:1:
"I urge you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy, and acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service of worship."
Please compare Romans 12:1 with what Jesus said in John 4:23.
The "living sacrifice" that Paul presents is our "reasonable service of worship". This is what Jesus presented as "worship the Father in spirit and truth".
Therefore, the true value of the crucifixion of Christ in our personal salvation is that it moves us to crucify our past life. The true value of the resurrection of Christ in our personal salvation is that it moves us to live a new life.
This is not Pancho's Frijoles interpretation. This is Scripture:
For if we have been united with Him in the likeness of His death, so shall we also be united with Him in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with Him, so that the body of sin might be destroyed, and we should no longer be slaves to sin. For the one who has died is freed from sin. (Roman 6:5-7)
So, instead of asking the repented Sikh who stole 1000 USD: "Do you believe that Jesus paid for your sins on the cross? Do you believe that Jesus was resurrected with a physical body?" The real questions are "Have you died to your old way of living? Are you living now as an honest man?"
If the answer is positive, we can be sure that the Sikh has profited from the death and resurrection of Christ.
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Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
I agree. There is no merit in us.
What I say is that, "saved by faith" means "saved by genuine faith" and genuine faith is always manifested by works.
So, faith and its manifestation are inseparable, in terms of what God expects from us.
It is like the tree and the fruits. We plant apple trees with the hope of harvesting apples. Even the name "apple tree" implies that the identity of the tree is the identity of the fruit it is supposed to bear. An apple tree that does not bear apples is not treated as an apple tree. It is chopped and thrown to the fire. Well, we are not saved from hunger by planting apple trees... but by planting apple trees that bear apples.
God, the owner of our loom, did not plant beliefs for the sake of the beliefs, but for the sake of the fruit He would obtain.
Remember that when Paul made the attack against a salvation based on works, he did it in the context of arrogant Judaizers who believed they were granted salvation by God by keeping the Law of Moses, that Greek converts did not follow.
Paul was attacking Judaizer's merit-based arrogance. Paul was not proposing a faith based on intellectual assents to doctrines, which is what some Evangelical pastors seem to do.
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civic
Well-known member
Jesus is the Authority on the Atonement since He is the One who made the sacrifice/atonement for sin and provided forgiveness of sins thought His sacrifice. He said its the New Covenant by/through His own blood.
We have no need to try and explain thats not what He meant when He said those words to His disciples. He meant what He said and said what He meant.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
That's not the way to approach the study of the Bible, civic. If we value Jesus, we will dig into his words.Jesus is the Authority on the Atonement since He is the One who made the sacrifice/atonement for sin and provided forgiveness of sins thought His sacrifice. He said its the New Covenant by/through His own blood.
We have no need to try and explain thats not what He meant when He said those words to His disciples. He meant what He said and said what He meant.
When Jesus says "new covenant" He meant something. So, why wouldn't we want to know what he meant?
We don't have to engage in long speculations. We have the Scriptures:
God explains through Jeremiah what the new covenant is all about. So, why shouldn't we pay attention?
God explains through Jesus how worship would change, from sacrifice-based to spirit-based. So, why shouldn't we pay attention?
God explains through Paul what kind of sacrifice and resurrection God expects from us. So, why shouldn't we pay attention?
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civic
Well-known member
the New Covenant is in His blood just like He said it was. no blood means no forgiveness of sins. without the shedding of blood the bible emphatically states there is no forgiveness.
Is the blood mentioned 15 times below enough proof ? Do you need more proof ?
Facts- There are 86 verses in the New Testament that mentions the word “blood.” There are 25 verses in the New Testament that mention Jesus's blood
Matthew 26:26-29
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Hebrews 9:22
Because all things are purged by blood in The Written Law, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Leviticus 4:20,26,35
And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them
Leviticus 6:7
And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.
Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for your souls upon the altar; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.
A Walk through Hebrews
Hebrews 9
Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2 A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4 which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5 Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now.
6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.
The Blood of Christ
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining[b] eternal redemption. 13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,so that we may serve the living God!15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
16 In the case of a will,[d] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.”[e] 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
23 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Hebrews 10
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.
19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.
Hebrews 12
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
Hebrews 13
The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.
Conclusion: The forgiveness of sins is found only in the blood of Christ- His life which He gave as a sacrifice for sin. That is the heart of the Atonement. It is what the New Covenant is found upon His blood/life which was given for our sins. Forgiveness is only found in His blood/life that He gave on our behalf. That is how are sins are removed and taken away. That is what the Law required for sin was the blood of the animal/sacrifice.
hope this helps !!!
Last edited:
civic
Well-known member
Today, most people don’t raise or butcher the animals they eat. We pay someone else to do those things and buy our groceries at the store. In the ancient world, and in many places on the earth today, people lived on farms where they ate the crops they grew and animals they raised for food. As a result, they were a lot more familiar with blood and death.
In fact, one scholar suggests blood is mentioned 362 times in the Old Testament and around 92 times in the New Testament, even more often than the cross or death of Jesus. Thus, the idea of blood is the most common means by which the Scriptures refer to the death of Jesus.
Throughout Scripture, blood is inextricably connected with sin for two primary reasons. First, shed blood reminds us that sin results in death. Second, God is sickened by sin, which causes death, a connection first made in Genesis 2:17 and repeated throughout the Bible. The Old Testament often used the theme of blood to prepare people for the coming of Jesus to die for our sins. In fact, it was God who shed the first blood in human history in response to sin, slaughtering an animal to make clothes to cover Adam and Eve after the original human sin in Genesis 3.
One of the major functions of the Old Testament temple was the slaughtering of animals, as seen by the stream of blood that often flowed out of the temple. Blood is, in fact, a major aspect of Old Testament religion. There were some eleven different sacrifices that fit into one of the four groupings (burnt, peace, sin, or guilt) and sacrifices were made both in the morning and evening, all of which involved blood.
Despite all this bloodshed, the Old Testament sacrificial system was never meant to be something sufficient in itself. When Israel misunderstood the purpose of the sacrifices, putting their faith in the sacrifices themselves, there were three major problems:
hope this helps !!!
In fact, one scholar suggests blood is mentioned 362 times in the Old Testament and around 92 times in the New Testament, even more often than the cross or death of Jesus. Thus, the idea of blood is the most common means by which the Scriptures refer to the death of Jesus.
Throughout Scripture, blood is inextricably connected with sin for two primary reasons. First, shed blood reminds us that sin results in death. Second, God is sickened by sin, which causes death, a connection first made in Genesis 2:17 and repeated throughout the Bible. The Old Testament often used the theme of blood to prepare people for the coming of Jesus to die for our sins. In fact, it was God who shed the first blood in human history in response to sin, slaughtering an animal to make clothes to cover Adam and Eve after the original human sin in Genesis 3.
One of the major functions of the Old Testament temple was the slaughtering of animals, as seen by the stream of blood that often flowed out of the temple. Blood is, in fact, a major aspect of Old Testament religion. There were some eleven different sacrifices that fit into one of the four groupings (burnt, peace, sin, or guilt) and sacrifices were made both in the morning and evening, all of which involved blood.
Despite all this bloodshed, the Old Testament sacrificial system was never meant to be something sufficient in itself. When Israel misunderstood the purpose of the sacrifices, putting their faith in the sacrifices themselves, there were three major problems:
- Bloodshed of a substituted animal did not forgive human sin (Ps. 51:16; Mic. 6:6-8; Heb. 10:4).
- It enabled hypocrisy; people could undergo external rituals such as offering a sacrifice without having truly repented of sin and trusted in God internally (1 Sam. 15:22; Prov. 15:8; Hos. 6:6).
- It was only preparatory, prophesying the death of God’s promised Messiah, and therefore incomplete until the coming of Jesus, who made the better new covenant possible (Heb. 7:22, 8:5-7,13).
hope this helps !!!
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