God's grace to forgive and transform is not conditioned to recognizing Jesus' deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection

[Pancho Frijoles]

5. Salvific Forgiveness (Salvation and Eternal Forgiveness):

Definition: Salvific forgiveness refers to the ultimate, eternal forgiveness that leads to salvation or reconciliation with God in many religious traditions.

Characteristics: This is seen as the highest form of forgiveness, where God's mercy transcends human understanding. It is often linked to salvation, wherein the forgiven individual is restored to a state of grace and eternal life. This level involves not just forgiveness of sins but a transformation of the individual's soul or spirit.

I agree that salvific forgiveness implies a transformation of the individual's soul of spirit.
That's what salvation is all about: to go from condition A (hell, sin, slavery, death) to condition B (heaven, holiness, freedom, life).
So, if I asked forgiveness for having stolen from you 1000 but I still behave with dishonesty, my repentance is not sincere, I am not forgiven, I am not changed, I am not saved.

So, we shouldn't think that I can trick God into forgiving me while I have no intention to be transformed.
Since God cannot be tricked, because He knows my heart and future, what is the relevance of a distinction between "divine forgiveness" and "salvific forgiveness"? Do you think that God is interested in forgiving a person without transforming his soul?

As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! (Ezekiel 33:11)
When God saw their actions, that they turned from their evil ways, He changed His mind about the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it. (Jonah 3:10)

Example: In Christianity, this is seen in the forgiveness granted through faith in Jesus Christ, where believers are absolved from their sins and promised eternal life through the Cross.

If we will talk about transformation of lives, I come again with the same question:
How do you explain that people whose religious convictions DO NOT include Jesus deity, substitutionary atonement and physical resurrection are transformed before your eyes? There are two possible answers:

1. The right answer: God can transform those people. Perhaps the theology I adhere to cannot explain how, but I will never deny the works of the Holy Spirit.
2. The evil and stupid answer: God cannot transform those people: what they exhibit is hypocrisy / the result of psychological and cultural factors / just outward morality / an illusion caused by the devil in disguise / their transformation is good, but not good enough to escape the torment of hell / God does not save transformed people, because that is salvation based on works / You are just appealing to emotions, Pancho/ Who wanna hear real-life scenarios in this Forum?

 

[Studyman]

You, as a Bahá’í, are referencing my Scriptures but interpreting them through the lens of Bahá’u’lláh’s teachings. Why should I take your perspective on how a person is to be born again, especially when you haven't provided a direct answer to the question?

Here are writings and gleanings from your faith that, while touching on themes of spiritual transformation, do not directly address the biblical imperative of how a person must be born again.

Instead, they seem to sidestep the clear and specific instructions found in Scripture on this critical matter.

You interpret Scriptures through the Lens of the Berean Bible Society, teaching, copying and pasting their sermons to justify and promote your specific religious philosophy all the time. Perhaps Pancho interprets Scriptures through to lens of the Bahi' religion, same as you. While I don't always agree with his interpretation, it does seem to be his own. I haven't seen him copy and paste a Bahi' teaching to justify his understanding of Scriptures of the Holy Bible. He seems to come to his own conclusions. While you, on the other hand, are always posting the sermons of others.

Calvinists, Catholics, SDA, JW, LDS, Berean Bible Society, etc., their writings and sermons all promote a theme of spiritual transformation, and yet they all disagree on "how" this transformation takes place. Each one promoting and believing their adopted "Lens", as you told me, as "superior in knowledge" than the other.

This chaos, or as it is called in the Holy Scriptures, "Babylon" is the resulting religious system these traditions of men create. This is why Jesus said, in my view, "Be therefore not like unto them", and Paul said;

2 Cor. 6: 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

How does a man come to know what God defines as "unclean" that we might know not to partake of such? Jesus said to "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and "HIS" Righteousness", and all these things shall be added unto you. There is only one source that shows what the God of Abraham esteems as clean and Unclean. Holy and Unholy, righteous and unrighteous. Paul taught from and believed all that was written therein, calling it the "Gospel of Christ" long before his letters were even known.

I advocate that men turn away from this world's religious system with its religious businesses and sects in worship of the same One True God Jesus worshiped, and walk the "Good Works" foreordained by this same God, that Jesus walked in, in the same obedience to God Jesus lived by, all in worship of the same God of Abraham that HE worshiped, and pray to the same God HE prayed to, and follow the instruction HE provides to the Faithful concerning whose Word's to Live By and whose words to "Take Heed of".

In this way the Church of God, AKA the Body of Christ is united as is taught throughout the Holy Scriptures which is confirmed by the teaching of Jesus, and His servant Paul.

Eph. 4: 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk "worthy" of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father "of all", who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

In this way we can "be renewed in the spirit of your mind" And that we can put on the new man, "which after God" ( not after the religious opinions of Baháʼu'lláh, or Cornelious Stam, or John Calvin, or the Pope, or any of a number of men who Profess to know God, or call Jesus Lord, Lord.) is created in righteousness and true holiness. (As defined by the One God and Father of us all, in the Holy Scriptures)

In this way we press towards the mark of the high Prize which Jesus Commanded us to press towards. "Be ye perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect", the same perfection that was in Christ Jesus.

This understanding is not popular with this world's religions because to exist, they need contributing members so they are in constant competition with other religions to convert as many as possible to their specific religious sect, because without contributing members, their religious business could not survive.

This would be true for both the religious sect of the Bahi', as well as the religious sect of the Berean Bible Society, The religious sect of the Catholic, the religious sect of the Methodist, the JW, the SDA, the LDS, and on and on who are all under pressure to grow membership. I think they forget sometimes that it is God who "ADDs to His Church".

Acts 2: 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

[Johann]

I agree that salvific forgiveness implies a transformation of the individual's soul of spirit.
That's what salvation is all about: to go from condition A (hell, sin, guilt, death) to condition B (heaven, holiness, peace, life).
So, if I asked forgiveness for having stolen from you 1000 but I still behave with dishonesty, my repentance is not sincere, I am not forgiven, I am not changed, I am not saved.

So, we shouldn't think that I can trick God into forgiving me while I have no intention to be transformed.
Since God cannot be tricked, because He knows my heart and future, what is the relevance of a distinction between "divine forgiveness" and "salvific forgiveness"? Do you think that God is interested in forgiving a person without transforming his soul?

Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked, says the Lord God, but rather that he should turn from his ways and live? (Ezekiel 18:23)



If we will talk about transformation of lives, I come again with the same question:
How do you explain that people whose religious convictions DO NOT include Jesus deity, substitutionary atonement and physical resurrection are transformed before your eyes? There are two possible answers:

1. The right answer: God can transform those people. Perhaps the theology I adhere to cannot explain how or why, but I will never deny the works of the Holy Spirit.
2. The evil and stupid answer: God cannot transform those people: what they exhibit is hypocrisy / the result of psychological and cultural factors / just outward morality / an illusion caused by the devil in disguise / their transformation is good, but not good enough to escape the torment of hell / God does not save transformed people, because that is salvation based on works / You are just appealing to emotions, Pancho. Be more serious and stick to theorizing about salvation.

In engaging with other religions, particularly the Bahá'í faith, it is essential to focus on the non-negotiable truths revealed in Scripture. The Pauline epistles make the gospel's foundation clear: salvation comes through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:3-4).

These truths are not symbolic or spiritualized but literal and historical, forming the basis of Christian faith.

In contrast, the Bahá'í writings, such as those of Bahá'u'lláh in The Kitáb-i-Íqán, often reinterpret key Christian doctrines. For example, the resurrection of Christ is treated as symbolic rather than a physical event. Bahá'u'lláh writes:

"The significance of the resurrection of Christ is spiritual rather than physical. It represents the revival of His Cause and the triumph of His teachings."

This perspective diverges sharply from passages like Romans 10:9, where Paul emphasizes belief in the literal resurrection as essential for salvation:


"Because if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved”

Furthermore, the Bahá'í writings tend to generalize the cross, death, and resurrection as metaphors for the renewal of religion or moral enlightenment. For example, Abdu’l-Bahá in Some Answered Questions states:

"The death of Jesus Christ signifies the sacrifice of His own identity for the sake of the unity of humankind."

While noble in sentiment, this interpretation falls short of the substitutionary atonement described in Scriptures like 1 Peter 2:24:

"He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we may die to sins and live to righteousness; by his wounds you were healed.”

In conclusion, while the Bahá'í writings offer interpretations that may appeal to universalism, they lack the scriptural foundation for the core gospel truths. Christians are called to stand firm in these non-negotiable doctrines, as Paul exhorts in Galatians 1:8:

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should proclaim a gospel to you contrary to what we proclaimed to you, let him be accursed."

Thanks.

J.

 

[Johann]

You interpret Scriptures through the Lens of the Berean Bible Society, teaching, copying and pasting their sermons to justify and promote your specific religious philosophy all the time. Perhaps Pancho interprets Scriptures through to lens of the Bahi' religion, same as you. While I don't always agree with his interpretation, it does seem to be his own. I haven't seen him copy and paste a Bahi' teaching to justify his understanding of Scriptures of the Holy Bible. He seems to come to his own conclusions. While you, on the other hand, are always posting the sermons of others.

Calvinists, Catholics, SDA, JW, LDS, Berean Bible Society, etc., their writings and sermons all promote a theme of spiritual transformation, and yet they all disagree on "how" this transformation takes place. Each one promoting and believing their adopted "Lens", as you told me, as "superior in knowledge" than the other.

This chaos, or as it is called in the Holy Scriptures, "Babylon" is the resulting religious system these traditions of men create. This is why Jesus said, in my view, "Be therefore not like unto them", and Paul said;

2 Cor. 6: 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

How does a man come to know what God defines as "unclean" that we might know not to partake of such? Jesus said to "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and "HIS" Righteousness", and all these things shall be added unto you. There is only one source that shows what the God of Abraham esteems as clean and Unclean. Holy and Unholy, righteous and unrighteous. Paul taught from and believed all that was written therein, calling it the "Gospel of Christ" long before his letters were even known.

I advocate that men turn away from this world's religious system with its religious businesses and sects in worship of the same One True God Jesus worshiped, and walk the "Good Works" foreordained by this same God, that Jesus walked in, in the same obedience to God Jesus lived by, all in worship of the same God of Abraham that HE worshiped, and pray to the same God HE prayed to, and follow the instruction HE provides to the Faithful concerning whose Word's to Live By and whose words to "Take Heed of".

In this way the Church of God, AKA the Body of Christ is united as is taught throughout the Holy Scriptures which is confirmed by the teaching of Jesus, and His servant Paul.

Eph. 4: 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk "worthy" of the vocation wherewith ye are called, 2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father "of all", who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

In this way we can "be renewed in the spirit of your mind" And that we can put on the new man, "which after God" ( not after the religious opinions of Baháʼu'lláh, or Cornelious Stam, or John Calvin, or the Pope, or any of a number of men who Profess to know God, or call Jesus Lord, Lord.) is created in righteousness and true holiness. (As defined by the One God and Father of us all, in the Holy Scriptures)

In this way we press towards the mark of the high Prize which Jesus Commanded us to press towards. "Be ye perfect, as your Father in Heaven is perfect", the same perfection that was in Christ Jesus.

This understanding is not popular with this world's religions because to exist, they need contributing members so they are in constant competition with other religions to convert as many as possible to their specific religious sect, because without contributing members, their religious business could not survive.

This would be true for both the religious sect of the Bahi', as well as the religious sect of the Berean Bible Society, The religious sect of the Catholic, the religious sect of the Methodist, the JW, the SDA, the LDS, and on and on who are all under pressure to grow membership. I think they forget sometimes that it is God who "ADDs to His Church".

Acts 2: 44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

When I'm good and ready, I will concentrate on you and show you where you are in error.

J.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You interpret Scriptures through the Lens of the Berean Bible Society, teaching, copying and pasting their sermons to justify and promote your specific religious philosophy all the time. Perhaps Pancho interprets Scriptures through to lens of the Bahi' religion, same as you. While I don't always agree with his interpretation, it does seem to be his own. I haven't seen him copy and paste a Bahi' teaching to justify his understanding of Scriptures of the Holy Bible. He seems to come to his own conclusions. While you, on the other hand, are always posting the sermons of others.

Calvinists, Catholics, SDA, JW, LDS, Berean Bible Society, etc., their writings and sermons all promote a theme of spiritual transformation, and yet they all disagree on "how" this transformation takes place. Each one promoting and believing their adopted "Lens", as you told me, as "superior in knowledge" than the other.

Amen, my brother.

And then, once we all recognize that we interpret Scriptures according to different lenses, I ask the question, which I think is relevant:
Which interpretation inspires us to be as God wants us to be? Which interpretation gets us closer to love to God and our neighbors?

That's where we come to some interesting realities:

There are Trinitarian Christians, Protestant and Catholic, who believe that God can forgive and transform the life of Muslims, Jews, or people who do not share all their religious beliefs.

They believe in the Trinity, but not force that belief that as a condition to be saved.
They believe in the substitutionary blood atonement of Christ, but not force that belief that as a condition to be saved.
They believe in the physical body of resurrected Christ, but not force that belief that as a condition to be saved.

These Christians know that sending billions of humans loved by God to hell for an eternal torment, based on their religious affiliation or creed, is an unspeakable evil.

So, what I am begging @civic, @synergy and @Johann to accept is that God can forgive and transform those billions of people, if they repent and allow to be transformed, including me as a Baha'i, my wife as an atheist, my daughters as new age, my sister as agnostic, and my mother as an ex-JW.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

When I'm good and ready, I will concentrate on you and show you where you are in error.

J.

You will never be good and ready until you behave with kindness towards @Studyman.
I will put on hold our interaction so that you find the time to address his important contributions.
This means I will hover over your name and click "Ignore" as of now.
Then, after 7 days or so, I will deactivate the "Ignore" function to check whether you have addressed Studyman.

 

[Johann]

You will never be good and ready until you behave with kindness towards @Studyman.
I will put on hold our interaction so that you find the time to address his important contributions.
This means I will hover over your name and click "Ignore" as of now.
Then, after 7 days or so, I will deactivate the "Ignore" function to check whether you have addressed Studyman.

Your tactics of evasion and reinterpretation of Scripture are evident, as is the disconnect between Bahá'í teachings and the Word of God. The Bible is explicit in its declarations, and we are called to remain steadfast in its truths.

Scripture reminds us that we are not to align with the world’s philosophies or ideologies. Jesus Himself declared, “Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives” (John 14:27, LEB).

The peace that Christ offers is spiritual reconciliation with God, not the worldly concept of universal harmony often emphasized in Bahá'í writings.

Furthermore, James 4:4 warns, “Do you not know that friendship with the world means enmity with God? Therefore, whoever wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.”

God’s wrath abides on unbelievers is directly supported by Scripture:

"The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him” (John 3:36, LEB).

Attempts to spiritualize or reinterpret this truth cannot diminish its reality.

Isaiah 48:22 further affirms that “There is no peace,” says Yahweh, “for the wicked.”

Peace with God comes only through the finished work of Christ, not through human philosophies or reinterpretations. Paul emphasizes this in Romans 5:1: “Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

The refusal to directly answer biblical questions while relying on vague reinterpretations or philosophical arguments is telling.

As 2 Timothy 2:15 exhorts us, “Make every effort to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, correctly teaching the message of truth.”

We are called to evaluate teachings in light of Scripture and hold fast to sound doctrine.

As for this forum, the promotion of sound biblical teaching such as that from Got Questions and other sources aligns with the Berean spirit of searching the Scriptures daily to discern truth (Acts 17:11).

And BBS and Grace Ambassadors. Should @Studyman have a problem with BBS I'm sure the Administrator will correct this little "problem"

Correct @civic?

J.

 

[Johann]

Amen, my brother.

And then, once we all recognize that we interpret Scriptures according to different lenses, I ask the question, which I think is relevant:
Which interpretation inspires us to be as God wants us to be? Which interpretation gets us closer to love to God and our neighbors?

That's where we come to some interesting realities:

There are Trinitarian Christians, Protestant and Catholic, who believe that God can forgive and transform the life of Muslims, Jews, or people who do not share all their religious beliefs.

They believe in the Trinity, but not force that belief that as a condition to be saved.
They believe in the substitutionary blood atonement of Christ, but not force that belief that as a condition to be saved.
They believe in the physical body of resurrected Christ, but not force that belief that as a condition to be saved.

These Christians know that sending billions of humans loved by God to hell for an eternal torment, based on their religious affiliation or creed, is an unspeakable evil.

So, what I am begging @civic, @synergy and @Johann to accept is that God can forgive and transform those billions of people, if they repent and allow to be transformed, including me as a Baha'i, my wife as an atheist, my daughters as new age, my sister as agnostic, and my mother as an ex-JW.

You teach a form of "Universalism" foreign to Scripture and the "conditions" are the Imperatives of Christ Jesus.

Can you explain what you mean by being "transformed?"

@synergy is still waiting for your answer.

J.

 

[civic]

You teach a form of "Universalism" foreign to Scripture and the "conditions" are the Imperatives of Christ Jesus.

Can you explain what you mean by being "transformed?"

@synergy is still waiting for your answer.

J.

yes it sounds like everyone is forgiven and saved in his world view regardless of who or what they believe in. all dogs go to heaven

 

[Johann]

yes it sounds like everyone is forgiven and saved in his world view regardless of who or what they believe in. all dogs go to heaven

Am I correct that this Forum also welcome teachings from BBS and Grace Ambassadors, Got Questions?

@Pancho Frijoles is about to put me on ignore, which I welcome and as you rightly pointed out: "All dogs go to heaven"

Thanks-now I can concentrate on @Studyman.

J.

 

[civic]

Am I correct that this Forum also welcome teachings from BBS and Grace Ambassadors, Got Questions?

@Pancho Frijoles is about to put me on ignore, which I welcome and as you rightly pointed out: "All dogs go to heaven"

Thanks-now I can concentrate on @Studyman.

J.

We welcome all faiths, people and recommended sites as references.

Personally although I often use got? I don't agree with them on everything.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

yes it sounds like everyone is forgiven and saved in his world view regardless of who or what they believe in. all dogs go to heaven

But people are not forgiven or saved regardless of what they do. What they do reflects who is their Lord, and which gospel they follow.
So, the door is narrow.

Religious beliefs matter in several circumstances... when they lead to a life opposed to the life that Christ taught us to live.

Take these examples:

• A kind of Gnostic believes that, once the person gets the right knowledge, that person cannot sin anymore, so he engages in sexual orgies.
• A Gnostic believes that the material world is evil, so he quits his jobs, abandon his family, and start living an ascetic life in a cave, despising those who remain in the city.
• A Nazi believes that Jews deserve to be sent to concentration camps and acts accordingly
• A person believes that his religious leader can abuse the ladies sexually because he is pure from sin, and helps that leader to commit these atrocities
• A religious leader deceives others to believe that, since Jesus is coming next month, everyone should quit jobs and college, and bring to him their money as a sign of detachment
• A Muslim leader asks others to kill a person who has insulted Allah in his publications, because that's a moral duty of every Muslim.
• Christian Science leaders deceive their brethren into thinking that asking medical treatment means distrust in God
• Jehovah Witness leaders deceive their brethren into thinking that blood transfusions should be rejected even if there are no other alternatives available.

 

[Johann]

We welcome all faiths, people and recommended sites as references.

Personally although I often use got? I don't agree with them on everything.

Of course not! But BBS and Bible Hub is listed on this Forum.

Correct?

J.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Calvinists, Catholics, SDA, JW, LDS, Berean Bible Society, etc., their writings and sermons all promote a theme of spiritual transformation, and yet they all disagree on "how" this transformation takes place. Each one promoting and believing their adopted "Lens", as you told me, as "superior in knowledge" than the other.

I agree, Studyman.
Actually, there is no single "how" on how this transformation is made
Each one of us could narrate our individual story of how we are being spiritually transformed, and each story would be different.
So, perhaps we would learn more from listening to each story, and contemplating our own story, than resorting to a theory.

How God performs the transformation of a soul? We don't know! If we don't understand how digestion or star formation really happens, how can we expect to understand an infinitely more complex (and miraculous) spiritual process?
What we can say is that we digest food and keep alive... that stars are finally there... and that we are not the same we used to be.

God bless you and your family always, Studyman, and thanks for your precious insights.

 

[synergy]

I agree, Studyman.
Actually, there is no single "how" on how this transformation is made
Each one of us could narrate our individual story of how we are being spiritually transformed, and each story would be different.
So, perhaps we would learn more from listening to each story, and contemplating our own story, than resorting to a theory.

How God performs the transformation of a soul? We don't know! If we don't understand how digestion or star formation really happens, how can we expect to understand an infinitely more complex (and miraculous) spiritual process?
What we can say is that we digest food and keep alive... that stars are finally there... and that we are not the same we used to be.

God bless you and your family always, Studyman, and thanks for your precious insights.

So there you go. Your question contained the word "transform" for which there are a gazillion definitions. Your refusal to nail its definition down reflects your Baha'i view of allegorizing and mythologizing both reality and spirituality.

Either define your terms (for the 4th time now) or I will conclude that you're here to just gather information in preparation for the Baha'i goal of guting us and absorbing us into its collective.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I advocate that men turn away from this world's religious system with its religious businesses and sects in worship of the same One True God Jesus worshiped, and walk the "Good Works" foreordained by this same God, that Jesus walked in, in the same obedience to God Jesus lived by, all in worship of the same God of Abraham that HE worshiped, and pray to the same God HE prayed to, and follow the instruction HE provides to the Faithful concerning whose Word's to Live By and whose words to "Take Heed of".

It is commonly quoted among our Evangelical friends the text of Romans 10:9 " If you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved"

So, when the evangelical pastor asks: What should we do to be saved? the evangelical brother answers "Confessing with my mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe sincerely that God raised Him from dead".

However, Jesus got this same question and his answer was: "Keep the commandments". (Mathew 19:17)
So, what should we answer? Is it about confessing that Jesus is Lord and resurrected, or about keeping the commandments?
How to reconcile the two things?

We should read the apostles in the light of what Jesus said directly and not the other way around.

Paul have also said: "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters" (1 Cor 7:19)
The author of 1 John said: "This we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments." (1 John 2:3) and "he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him" (1 John 3:24)
Furthermore, in the Book of Revelation, we have "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city."
Jesus, in his last words revealed in the Bible, warns: "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work."

The apparent discrepancy is solved when we understand that there is no repentance without fruit of repentance, there is no faith without works, and there is no true confession but that pronounced with the mouth of our behavior.

 

[Johann]

So there you go. Your question contained the word "transform" for which there are a gazillion definitions. Your refusal to nail its definition down reflects your Baha'i view of allegorizing and mythologizing reality and spirituality.

A hit and miss, perhaps? Not studying the Pauline epistles?

J.

 

[Complete]

We welcome all faiths, people and recommended sites as references.

Hello @civic,

I wish this were not so: as for me it marks the point where I say, 'Goodbye'. Though I have thought it to be so previously, to have you confirm it closes the door to me. For I believe that there is only one God, the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ: and only one means of access to Him, and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ His only Begotten Son. Who died, was buried and rose again, and has ascended to God's right hand, where He now intercedes for us before the Father. Until the day dawn when He returns to judge the world in righteousness, and reign until all his enemies are placed beneath His feet.

There is only one faith (Eph.4)
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Johann]

Hello @civic,

I wish this were not so: as for me it marks the point where I say, 'Goodbye'. Though I have thought it to be so previously, to have you confirm it closes the door to me. For I believe that there is only one God, the God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ: and only one means of access to Him, and that is through the Lord Jesus Christ His only Begotten Son. Who died, was buried and rose again, and has ascended to God's right hand, where He now intercedes for us before the Father. Until the day dawn when He returns to judge the world in righteousness, and reign until all his enemies are placed beneath His feet.

There is only one faith (Eph.4)
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Let me know where you go, if you go @Complete.

In Christ Jesus.

Johann.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

So there you go. Your question contained the word "transform" for which there are a gazillion definitions. Your refusal to nail its definition down reflects your Baha'i view of allegorizing and mythologizing reality and spirituality.

"Transform" means to replace the old mindset by a new mindset, so that the old behavior is replaced by new behavior.

My best teacher at High School was "El Volka", in the class of Chemistry. That was the nickname everyone used to refer to him, because he had played in the local soccer team "Los Volkas".
After having been a good soccer player, he fell into the vice of alcohol, which damaged his family, his job, economy and self-esteem. Some people maliciously changed his nickname from "El Volka" to "El Vodka", referring to his affection for alcohol.

Then He met Christ. He repented. He started a new life. He quit alcohol and became a loving head of his family and an excellent, passionate teacher. He irradiated joy and energy, kindness and justice. He demanded a lot from all of us. Chemistry was a delight.
He attended his church regularly and he invited me and my family to his church one time. There he told us: "The center of the church is Jesus Christ". I could tell Jesus was the center of his life.
He died several years ago, and I hope to find him in the afterlife to thank him and tell him I loved him.

Was El Volka transformed? Yes. He had gone from one kind of mindset, the mind of the flesh, to another mindset, the mind of Christ. As a result, his old behavior was replaced by a new behavior.