God's grace to forgive and transform is not conditioned to recognizing Jesus' deity, blood atonement or physical resurrection
- Thread starter Pancho Frijoles
- Start date
Johann
Well-known member
Johann
Well-known member
Here's the "initiation process"
there is an initiation process in the Bahá'í Faith, though it is relatively simple and straightforward compared to initiation rites in some other religions. Becoming a Bahá'í involves an individual decision to accept the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh and a formal declaration of faith. Below is an overview of this process:
1. Personal Investigation of Truth
The Bahá'í Faith emphasizes independent investigation of truth, meaning individuals are encouraged to study the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh for themselves before making a decision. There is no coercion or pressure to join, as faith is considered a deeply personal matter.
Bahá'u'lláh writes:
"No man should follow blindly his ancestors and forefathers. Each must see with his own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and must know of his own knowledge and not through the knowledge of his neighbor or his kindred." (Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh, p. 29)
2. Declaration of Faith
The formal step to become a Bahá'í involves signing a declaration card or submitting an equivalent statement of faith. This declaration affirms that the individual:
Believes in Bahá'u'lláh as the Manifestation of God for this age.
Accepts the teachings of the Bahá'í Faith.
Is committed to striving to live according to Bahá'í principles, including unity, service, and moral conduct.
3. Acceptance into the Bahá'í Community
Once the declaration is made, the individual becomes part of the worldwide Bahá'í community. This acceptance does not involve rituals, baptism, or any symbolic acts but is a matter of being welcomed into a global community of believers. Participation in Bahá'í activities, such as community gatherings, Feasts (regular meetings for worship and consultation), and Holy Day celebrations, is encouraged.
4. Continued Spiritual Growth
Becoming a Bahá'í is viewed as the beginning of a lifelong process of spiritual growth and service. This includes daily prayer, reading the writings of Bahá'u'lláh, striving to live according to Bahá'í principles, and contributing to the unity and well-being of humanity. There are no clergy, so personal responsibility for spiritual development is emphasized.
Bahá'u'lláh states:
"O Son of Spirit! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting." (The Hidden Words, Arabic No. 1)
5. Community Participation
Initiation into the Bahá'í Faith also involves participating in the administrative structure of the Faith. New believers can vote in local Bahá'í elections, attend Nineteen-Day Feasts, and engage in service projects. This participation helps integrate individuals into the communal aspects of the Faith while fostering a sense of unity and purpose.
Differences from Other Faiths
Unlike many religions, the Bahá'í Faith does not have sacraments, rituals, or clergy, so the initiation process is more of a conscious, intellectual, and spiritual commitment rather than a formalized ceremonial act. It reflects the faith’s focus on unity, simplicity, and personal responsibility.
J.
there is an initiation process in the Bahá'í Faith, though it is relatively simple and straightforward compared to initiation rites in some other religions. Becoming a Bahá'í involves an individual decision to accept the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh and a formal declaration of faith. Below is an overview of this process:
1. Personal Investigation of Truth
The Bahá'í Faith emphasizes independent investigation of truth, meaning individuals are encouraged to study the teachings of Bahá'u'lláh for themselves before making a decision. There is no coercion or pressure to join, as faith is considered a deeply personal matter.
Bahá'u'lláh writes:
"No man should follow blindly his ancestors and forefathers. Each must see with his own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and must know of his own knowledge and not through the knowledge of his neighbor or his kindred." (Tablets of Bahá'u'lláh, p. 29)
2. Declaration of Faith
The formal step to become a Bahá'í involves signing a declaration card or submitting an equivalent statement of faith. This declaration affirms that the individual:
Believes in Bahá'u'lláh as the Manifestation of God for this age.
Accepts the teachings of the Bahá'í Faith.
Is committed to striving to live according to Bahá'í principles, including unity, service, and moral conduct.
3. Acceptance into the Bahá'í Community
Once the declaration is made, the individual becomes part of the worldwide Bahá'í community. This acceptance does not involve rituals, baptism, or any symbolic acts but is a matter of being welcomed into a global community of believers. Participation in Bahá'í activities, such as community gatherings, Feasts (regular meetings for worship and consultation), and Holy Day celebrations, is encouraged.
4. Continued Spiritual Growth
Becoming a Bahá'í is viewed as the beginning of a lifelong process of spiritual growth and service. This includes daily prayer, reading the writings of Bahá'u'lláh, striving to live according to Bahá'í principles, and contributing to the unity and well-being of humanity. There are no clergy, so personal responsibility for spiritual development is emphasized.
Bahá'u'lláh states:
"O Son of Spirit! My first counsel is this: Possess a pure, kindly and radiant heart, that thine may be a sovereignty ancient, imperishable and everlasting." (The Hidden Words, Arabic No. 1)
5. Community Participation
Initiation into the Bahá'í Faith also involves participating in the administrative structure of the Faith. New believers can vote in local Bahá'í elections, attend Nineteen-Day Feasts, and engage in service projects. This participation helps integrate individuals into the communal aspects of the Faith while fostering a sense of unity and purpose.
Differences from Other Faiths
Unlike many religions, the Bahá'í Faith does not have sacraments, rituals, or clergy, so the initiation process is more of a conscious, intellectual, and spiritual commitment rather than a formalized ceremonial act. It reflects the faith’s focus on unity, simplicity, and personal responsibility.
J.
Some points become obvious from that short description plus the participation of Pancho Frijoles.
The first problem here is that on one hand they give the pretense of accepting that all these different religions share the way to be "right" with God while they have a distinct religious cult that they follow along with acceptance of its doctrines. Why even follow the Baha'i doctrines if the others are fully acceptable?
Another issue is that they have to accept doctrine of the Baha'i faith while, at the same time, they deny that Christians have to accept doctrines of Christ's nature. (Of course I acknowledge that a person is not saved by doctrine. However, they are only justified within that doctrinal context. Merely having a misconception about doctrine is not in itself detrimental.)
Then, if Pancho Frijoles' approach is common, they have to tear down Christianity in order to establish their big concept of unity of people of different religions. This means that Christianity has to be remolded into a form of Baha'i doctrines in order to be acceptable to them. As such, they actually deny Christianity within their goals of unity.
The Baha'i faith is sort of like the choice I had just before I became a Christian. In the summer leading to that moment, I was reading a biography of a false prophet Edgar Cayce. It said he read the bible once for every year of his life. At the same time, I got a Gideon's NT. I basically thought do I want to read this guy inspired (though falsely so) by scripture or go directly to scripture. The Bahai' faith is like following Cayce.
Credit is also given to Synergy's earlier post on the Borg.
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That's what I meant when I said it's the mission of the Baha'i to gut out Christianity/Islam/Hinduism in order to absorb it into its collective.
We're all (Johann, Mikesw, Civic) doing a superb job of exposing the man-made religion of the Baha'i including the outrageous attempt by Baha'u'llah to usurp the Divine Offices of the Holy Spirit as the Paraklete and of Christ in His 2nd Coming.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
The Gospel centers on repentance and the establishment of the Kingdom of God.
Those are the good news that Jesus preached.
Please read with me the oldest presentation of what Jesus preached:
“After John was put in prison, Jesus came to Galilee preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe the gospel.” Mark 1:14
Count the number of verses in which Jesus talks about his death and resurrection. They make up less than 5%.
Now count the number of verses in which Jesus talks about how we should repent, live, love, pray, fast, treat others, speak, rule over the flesh, forgive, work, endure…they make up more than 90%
So, what is the gospel that Jesus preached, Johann?
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
This is a very good exposition of the Bahai Faith. Perhaps God is using you to promote it in the Forum.
However, it is my duty to remind you once again that this is not the topic under discussion, Johann.
There is a thread to discuss the Bahai Faith, open by the @Administrator.
I am kindly asking you AGAIN to focus on the topic of the thread.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
No. I’m seeking to tear down the walls some people have built to separate believers.
****
Torturing Sikhs for being Sikhs is evil, either in this life or in the afterlife.
If your theology leads you to justify the eternal torture of these brothers and sisters, then it is Wrong and evil.
There are millions of Christians who do not adhere to that madness. Be one of them.
This shows a total lack of understanding of the gospels. The gospels are primarily sharing how Christ came as the prophet mentioned by Moses. He was largely quiet about being Messiah and quieter about the death and resurrection because that was a surprise element that fulfills prophecy in a fashion that even the Apostles. That lack of understanding is why people have to be cautious about making doctrines on stuff they don't really know. Even Christians have to be careful if propounding novel doctrines.
You are creating new barriers by distorting the gospel for your own misguided and even evil intent. Is that your only complaint?
This topic is up for discussion since your denial of Christian doctrine is built upon your framework of the Baha'i religion. It is important for others who might read this thread to recognize that the issue is not one of uncertainty in Christianity but is doctrine espoused by an outsider not interested in the accurate testimony of scripture or, alternatively, not able to interpret in the proper context.
Johann
Well-known member
very simple-
FROM THAT TIME
Compare and contrast
“FROM THAT TIME Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17.
“FROM THAT TIME forth began Jesus to shew unto His disciples, how that He must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.” Matthew 16:21.
“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” Matthew 21:43.
Note how Matthew is divided by the two statements, “from that time”. In Matthew 4:17 the King announced His kingdom at hand. In Matthew 16:21, the King announced His rejection and death at hand Note how He stated it in Matthew 26:45—“Behold the hour is at hand’, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.”
Then note the Messiah’s solemn words to His “kingdom” nation, in Matthew 21:43, “the kingdom of God shall be taken from you.” Note how this is stated in Matthew 8:12—“But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Now compare Matthew 8:12 with Colossians 1:13 and 14. [which you don't do]
“But the children of the kingdom shall be out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
“Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son; In Whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.”
Members of Christ’s Body are children of a different kingdom, and shall never be cast into outer darkness.
Let us compare Luke 16:16 and Luke 13:24 with I Corinthians 12:13—Romans 4:5 and Romans 14:17. Shall we?
“The law and the prophets were until John; since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
“Strive to enter in at the strait gate; for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.”
“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. “
“For the kingdom of God is not. meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.”
What a difference between the proclamation of Matthew 10:5 to 8, “the kingdom at hand” for Israel, (go not into the way of the Gentiles), and Titus 2:11, “the grace of God” at hand for all men, including the Gentiles. Healing, miracles and signs accompanied the proclamation of the kingdom of heaven; but these signs had ceased when Paul wrote to Titus. The two programs were quite different.
No member of the Body of Christ has Divine authority to carry on the kingdom program of Matthew 10:5 to 8 in this day of grace.
The Lord Jesus on earth did not say “the Body of Christ is at hand.” Neither did He preach the gospel message of Romans 10:12 and Ephesians 3:6 and Ephesians 2:13.
“There is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him.”
“That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the Joint-Body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel.”
“But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.”
We should study the Book of Matthew in the light of Romans and Ephesians. But as we study the Book of Matthew, let us not forget that the truth of Romans and Ephesians was not made known by Christ and His apostles until some years after His death and resurrection; and that “the kingdom at hand” when Jesus Christ was on earth, differs in many respects from the “kingdom of God” mentioned: in Colossians 4:11. “And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellow workers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.”
The “kingdom” of Matthew was a prophesied kingdom. The “kingdom” of Ephesians and Colossians was an unprophesied kingdom, the Body of Christ.
Compare the kingdom gospel and healing program of Matthew 10:5 to 8 with I Timothy 1:11 and I Timothy 5:23.
“According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.” “Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” I Timothy 1:11 and I Timothy 5:23.
The Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ which He announced “at hand”, when on earth, will surely be “at hand” again.
But during this present economy God is accomplishing a different purpose while the “kingdom of heaven” is in abeyance.
“Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth” (II Tim. 2:15).
“But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter (for He that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
And when James, Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the Gentiles and they unto the circumcision” (Gal. 2:7-9).Paul was recognized by the twelve apostles as God’s man to carry this new message of grace to the Gentiles. Clearly two different gospels are mentioned. Paul in Galatians 1:11 and 12 tells us how he received his gospel.
“But I certify you brethren that the gospel which was preached by me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ” (Gal. 1:11,12).
It has been said by some that Paul’s gospel was the same as Peter’s. Others claim that Peter was out of God’s will, narrow minded, and because of his refusal to go to the Gentiles, God had to raise up the Apostle Paul. I take exception to these views. For Galatians 2:8 tells us something else.
“For He that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles.”
There are several more reasons.
If it were the same there would have been no need for a special revelation.
Paul speaks of the gospel he preached as “my gospel” in Romans 16:25, 2:16.
Those who would find fault with Peter’s or Paul’s work are really finding fault with Christ’s work, for it is He who is working through both men as the Scripture states in Galatians 2:8.
The “my gospel” Paul spoke of is referred to as being kept secret since the world began (Rom. 16:25; I Cor. 2:7,8; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:26). The gospel Peter spoke of is referred to as being known since the world began (Matt. 25:34; Luke 1:67-70; Acts 3:21,24).
Indeed, Israel from Jacob on has been looking for their Messiah, who was to come and set up their kingdom as the most favored nation. When as a nation they accept their Messiah, God will have all people come through Israel. We, of course, know that Israel rejected Christ and they were then set aside until the dispensation of Grace, for which Paul was called to be its apostle, has run its course. Notice Paul’s words are spoken of as commandments, which is not a take it or leave it word.
“If any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord” (I Cor. 14:37).
When I was in the service, we learned a principle that is crucial to being a good soldier in the military or in God’s work. That principle is this: You obey the last lawful order given by the one in charge. I know that in past dispensations other orders were given, which were valid at the time given, but by examining the Scriptures of past dispensations, one can see major differences in the requirements that are in addition to faith.
There are many people who believe that the Bible words printed in red are the most important for they were spoken by Christ.
They are the words of Christ and very important indeed, as all God’s Word is, which we are to study. But they were especially important to the Jewish people to whom they were written regarding the coming kingdom. When we, who are of the dispensation of Grace, study the Gospels, we must interpret them in light of the epistles written by Paul.
They are Christ’s final marching orders for the Church today. They have the correct interpretation for the day we live in. Yes, we can take our stand and rest assured. We have the correct interpretation for today when we follow Christ’s words given through Paul.
In Ephesians 1:3 the Word tells us that we are looking for a heavenly home, not an earthly kingdom.
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” (Eph. 1:3).
“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ” (Phil. 3:20).
Yes, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have God’s Word for all people to study, but they are written to the people of the kingdom dispensation. We know Christ was addressing those for whom the kingdom was coming to earth. How? Because the Bible tells us so.
J.
Johann
Well-known member
I have asked the @Administrator for permission to question you and your new faith-a so-called faith that is entirely foreign to the Scriptures. Here you are, attempting to redefine everything we as believers in Christ hold dear-denying the death, burial, and resurrection of the Messiah, as well as the virgin birth!
Why should I allow you to impose an eisegesis on my Bible when it’s clear your beliefs are contrary to the truth?
J.
Johann
Well-known member
And I'm here to--
"and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ" (Lexham Bible).
This verse speaks to the believer’s responsibility to discern truth from error and align every thought, belief, and argument with the teachings and authority of Jesus Christ.
Paul is addressing the spiritual battle against false ideologies, philosophies, and human reasoning that exalt themselves against God's truth. The "captivity" here symbolizes submission, where every mental and spiritual aspect is brought under the lordship and truth of Christ.
Context of 2 Corinthians 10:1-6: Paul is defending his ministry against accusations and challenges from those promoting a distorted gospel. He contrasts the meekness and humility of Christ (verse 1) with the spiritual power believers possess in their warfare (verses 3-4). The weapons of their warfare are not physical but spiritual, empowered by God to demolish arguments and pretensions raised against His knowledge.
Taking thoughts captive: To "take every thought captive" means identifying and rejecting anything that contradicts God's Word. It calls believers to test every idea, belief, or teaching against Scripture and ensure it aligns with the gospel of Christ. Any concept, such as denying the resurrection, the virgin birth, or any fundamental doctrine, would fall under the category of a "high thing" or "lofty opinion" set against the knowledge of God.
Practical application: This passage encourages believers to maintain a mindset grounded in Scripture. It challenges us to confront false teachings and reject anything contrary to biblical doctrine, ensuring our thoughts and beliefs are obedient to Christ's truth. For you, this means standing firm on the foundational truths of the faith, like the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:3-4), and the virgin birth (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
This verse equips us to handle challenges by appealing to the authority of God’s Word rather than personal opinions or external influences. It calls for a commitment to truth and a readiness to refute error with Scripture, as Paul himself modeled throughout his ministry.
2Co_10:4 "the weapons of our warfare" Paul has alluded to this spiritual warfare earlier in 2Co_6:7. The book of Romans was written from Corinth about this same time. He also mentions this warfare in Rom_6:13; Rom_13:12. Peter uses the verb form in 1Pe_4:1, where he encourages believers to arm themselves in their fleshly struggles.
A good resource book in this area is Three Crucial Questions About Spiritual Warfare by Clinton E. Arnold, published by Baker.
"for the destruction of fortresses" This may be an allusion to Pro_21:22 (larger context 2Co_10:13-18). There has been much discussion about the meaning of this phrase among commentators, but it is obvious that 2Co_10:5 is a description of what spiritual fortresses Paul is referring to. It appears he is addressing the false theology of the false teachers.
2Co_10:5
NASB "destroying speculations"
NKJV "casting down arguments"
NRSV "destroy arguments"
TEV "pull down"
NJB "It is ideas that we demolish"
See note at 2Co_3:5.
NASB "and every lofty thing"
NKJV "and every high thing"
NRSV "and every proud obstacle"
TEV "every proud obstacle"
NJB "every presumptuous notion"
This is the word for "height" used in the sense of lofty, human thinking. This reflects the false teachers' over-emphasis on
1. knowledge and human reasoning (cf. 1Co_1:18-25; Col_2:8)
2. legalism (cf. Col_2:16-23)
"taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ" The verb is a compound of "spear" and "to capture in battle." These false teachers were capturing the thought and minds of the Corinthian believers. Paul would have us "renew our minds" (cf. Rom_12:2; Eph_4:23); protect our minds (cf. Php_4:7). Salvation is free, but the Christian life is characterized by obedience, service, worship, and perseverance. These are covenant responsibilities. There is an ongoing spiritual conflict!
Paul uses the word "thought" (noçma) often in 2 Corinthians (cf. 2Co_2:11; 2Co_3:14; 2Co_4:4; 2Co_11:3), but only one other time, in Php_4:7.
The Corinthian over-emphasis on knowledge may have been the reason for his recurrent use of the term. The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, Harold K. Moulton, ed., lists several connotations (p. 280).
1. the mind, the understanding, intellect - 2Co_3:14; 2Co_4:4
2. the heart, soul, affections, feelings, disposition - 2Co_11:3
3. a conception of the mind, thought, purpose, device - 2Co_2:11; 2Co_10:5
2Co_10:6 Paul warns the false teachers and their followers that their day of reckoning is coming. They accused him of being weak, but they simply misunderstood his patience with them (1) for Christ's sake and (2) for the corporate health of this church. Paul is warning this church to deal with its problems before he arrives or else he will deal with them (cf. 1Co_5:3-5).
J.
Johann
Well-known member
And I'm here to--
"and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ" (Lexham Bible).
This verse speaks to the believer’s responsibility to discern truth from error and align every thought, belief, and argument with the teachings and authority of Jesus Christ.
Paul is addressing the spiritual battle against false ideologies, philosophies, and human reasoning that exalt themselves against God's truth. The "captivity" here symbolizes submission, where every mental and spiritual aspect is brought under the lordship and truth of Christ.
Context of 2 Corinthians 10:1-6: Paul is defending his ministry against accusations and challenges from those promoting a distorted gospel. He contrasts the meekness and humility of Christ (verse 1) with the spiritual power believers possess in their warfare (verses 3-4). The weapons of their warfare are not physical but spiritual, empowered by God to demolish arguments and pretensions raised against His knowledge.
Taking thoughts captive: To "take every thought captive" means identifying and rejecting anything that contradicts God's Word. It calls believers to test every idea, belief, or teaching against Scripture and ensure it aligns with the gospel of Christ. Any concept, such as denying the resurrection, the virgin birth, or any fundamental doctrine, would fall under the category of a "high thing" or "lofty opinion" set against the knowledge of God.
Practical application: This passage encourages believers to maintain a mindset grounded in Scripture. It challenges us to confront false teachings and reject anything contrary to biblical doctrine, ensuring our thoughts and beliefs are obedient to Christ's truth. For you, this means standing firm on the foundational truths of the faith, like the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:3-4), and the virgin birth (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
This verse equips us to handle challenges by appealing to the authority of God’s Word rather than personal opinions or external influences. It calls for a commitment to truth and a readiness to refute error with Scripture, as Paul himself modeled throughout his ministry.
2Co_10:4 "the weapons of our warfare" Paul has alluded to this spiritual warfare earlier in 2Co_6:7. The book of Romans was written from Corinth about this same time. He also mentions this warfare in Rom_6:13; Rom_13:12. Peter uses the verb form in 1Pe_4:1, where he encourages believers to arm themselves in their fleshly struggles.
A good resource book in this area is Three Crucial Questions About Spiritual Warfare by Clinton E. Arnold, published by Baker.
"for the destruction of fortresses" This may be an allusion to Pro_21:22 (larger context 2Co_10:13-18). There has been much discussion about the meaning of this phrase among commentators, but it is obvious that 2Co_10:5 is a description of what spiritual fortresses Paul is referring to. It appears he is addressing the false theology of the false teachers.
2Co_10:5
NASB "destroying speculations"
NKJV "casting down arguments"
NRSV "destroy arguments"
TEV "pull down"
NJB "It is ideas that we demolish"
See note at 2Co_3:5.
NASB "and every lofty thing"
NKJV "and every high thing"
NRSV "and every proud obstacle"
TEV "every proud obstacle"
NJB "every presumptuous notion"
This is the word for "height" used in the sense of lofty, human thinking. This reflects the false teachers' over-emphasis on
1. knowledge and human reasoning (cf. 1Co_1:18-25; Col_2:8)
2. legalism (cf. Col_2:16-23)
"taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ" The verb is a compound of "spear" and "to capture in battle." These false teachers were capturing the thought and minds of the Corinthian believers. Paul would have us "renew our minds" (cf. Rom_12:2; Eph_4:23); protect our minds (cf. Php_4:7). Salvation is free, but the Christian life is characterized by obedience, service, worship, and perseverance. These are covenant responsibilities. There is an ongoing spiritual conflict!
Paul uses the word "thought" (noçma) often in 2 Corinthians (cf. 2Co_2:11; 2Co_3:14; 2Co_4:4; 2Co_11:3), but only one other time, in Php_4:7.
The Corinthian over-emphasis on knowledge may have been the reason for his recurrent use of the term. The Analytical Greek Lexicon Revised, Harold K. Moulton, ed., lists several connotations (p. 280).
1. the mind, the understanding, intellect - 2Co_3:14; 2Co_4:4
2. the heart, soul, affections, feelings, disposition - 2Co_11:3
3. a conception of the mind, thought, purpose, device - 2Co_2:11; 2Co_10:5
2Co_10:6 Paul warns the false teachers and their followers that their day of reckoning is coming. They accused him of being weak, but they simply misunderstood his patience with them (1) for Christ's sake and (2) for the corporate health of this church. Paul is warning this church to deal with its problems before he arrives or else he will deal with them (cf. 1Co_5:3-5).
J.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Any religious doctrine that justifies the massacre of 25 million Sikhs in the afterlife is a false ideology and philosophy which must be condemned and fought.
All men should raise against such doctrine, but particularly those who claim to believe in God’s mercy and justice.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
My faith is not foreign to the Scriptures, but solidly rooted in them.
The view of 25 million Sikhs being tortured forever in hell for being Sikhs is foreign to the Scriptures.
Do believers in Christ hold dear the eternal happiness of a Jew who consciously decides to die as a Jew?
This is far more important that holding dear any doctrine about the Messiah. Otherwise, those doctrines would be devoid of meaning.
Put your priorities in the right place, please.
Mercy is more important than theology. An atheist who shows mercy will get mercy from God. But a theologian who shows no mercy will not.
Because it is not an eisegesis, and it is not contrary to the truth.
What I am presenting here is based on Scriptures, reason and the basic notion of goodness.
If a religious belief is good, it cannot be false. If it is evil, it cannot be true.
A soteriology that justifies the torture of Muslims is evil. So, it cannot be true.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
Could you please summarize your post in simple statements?very simple-
FROM THAT TIME
Compare and contrast
“FROM THAT TIME Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent; for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Matthew 4:17.
“FROM THAT TIME forth began Jesus to shew unto His disciples, how that He must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.” Matthew 16:21.
“Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” Matthew 21:43.
Note how Matthew is divided by the two statements, “from that time”. In Matthew 4:17 the King announced His kingdom at hand. In Matthew 16:21, the King announced His rejection and death at hand Note how He stated it in Matthew 26:45—“Behold the hour is at hand’, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.”
Then note the Messiah’s solemn words to His “kingdom” nation, in Matthew 21:43, “the kingdom of God shall be taken from you.” Note how this is stated in Matthew 8:12—“But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Now compare Matthew 8:12 with Colossians 1:13 and 14. [which you don't do]
“But the children of the kingdom shall be out into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
“Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son; In Whom we have redemption through His blood, even the forgiveness of sins.”
Members of Christ’s Body are children of a different kingdom, and shall never be cast into outer darkness.
Let us compare Luke 16:16 and Luke 13:24 with I Corinthians 12:13—Romans 4:5 and Romans 14:17. Shall we?
“The law and the prophets were until John; since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
“Strive to enter in at the strait gate; for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.”
“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”
“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. “
“For the kingdom of God is not. meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.”
What a difference between the proclamation of Matthew 10:5 to 8, “the kingdom at hand” for Israel, (go not into the way of the Gentiles), and Titus 2:11, “the grace of God” at hand for all men, including the Gentiles. Healing, miracles and signs accompanied the proclamation of the kingdom of heaven; but these signs had ceased when Paul wrote to Titus. The two programs were quite different.
No member of the Body of Christ has Divine authority to carry on the kingdom program of Matthew 10:5 to 8 in this day of grace.
The Lord Jesus on earth did not say “the Body of Christ is at hand.” Neither did He preach the gospel message of Romans 10:12 and Ephesians 3:6 and Ephesians 2:13.
“There is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him.”
“That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the Joint-Body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel.”
“But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.”
We should study the Book of Matthew in the light of Romans and Ephesians. But as we study the Book of Matthew, let us not forget that the truth of Romans and Ephesians was not made known by Christ and His apostles until some years after His death and resurrection; and that “the kingdom at hand” when Jesus Christ was on earth, differs in many respects from the “kingdom of God” mentioned: in Colossians 4:11. “And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellow workers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.”
The “kingdom” of Matthew was a prophesied kingdom. The “kingdom” of Ephesians and Colossians was an unprophesied kingdom, the Body of Christ.
Compare the kingdom gospel and healing program of Matthew 10:5 to 8 with I Timothy 1:11 and I Timothy 5:23.
“According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.” “Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” I Timothy 1:11 and I Timothy 5:23.
The Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ which He announced “at hand”, when on earth, will surely be “at hand” again.
But during this present economy God is accomplishing a different purpose while the “kingdom of heaven” is in abeyance.
“Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth” (II Tim. 2:15).
“But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter (for He that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles
Paul was recognized by the twelve apostles as God’s man to carry this new message of grace to the Gentiles. Clearly two different gospels are mentioned. Paul in Galatians 1:11 and 12 tells us how he received his gospel.
“But I certify you brethren that the gospel which was preached by me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ” (Gal. 1:11,12).
It has been said by some that Paul’s gospel was the same as Peter’s. Others claim that Peter was out of God’s will, narrow minded, and because of his refusal to go to the Gentiles, God had to raise up the Apostle Paul. I take exception to these views. For Galatians 2:8 tells us something else.
“For He that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles.”
There are several more reasons.
If it were the same there would have been no need for a special revelation.
Paul speaks of the gospel he preached as “my gospel” in Romans 16:25, 2:16.
Those who would find fault with Peter’s or Paul’s work are really finding fault with Christ’s work, for it is He who is working through both men as the Scripture states in Galatians 2:8.
The “my gospel” Paul spoke of is referred to as being kept secret since the world began (Rom. 16:25; I Cor. 2:7,8; Eph. 3:9; Col. 1:26). The gospel Peter spoke of is referred to as being known since the world began (Matt. 25:34; Luke 1:67-70; Acts 3:21,24).
Indeed, Israel from Jacob on has been looking for their Messiah, who was to come and set up their kingdom as the most favored nation. When as a nation they accept their Messiah, God will have all people come through Israel. We, of course, know that Israel rejected Christ and they were then set aside until the dispensation of Grace, for which Paul was called to be its apostle, has run its course. Notice Paul’s words are spoken of as commandments, which is not a take it or leave it word.
“If any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord” (I Cor. 14:37).
When I was in the service, we learned a principle that is crucial to being a good soldier in the military or in God’s work. That principle is this: You obey the last lawful order given by the one in charge. I know that in past dispensations other orders were given, which were valid at the time given, but by examining the Scriptures of past dispensations, one can see major differences in the requirements that are in addition to faith.
There are many people who believe that the Bible words printed in red are the most important for they were spoken by Christ.
They are the words of Christ and very important indeed, as all God’s Word is, which we are to study. But they were especially important to the Jewish people to whom they were written regarding the coming kingdom. When we, who are of the dispensation of Grace, study the Gospels, we must interpret them in light of the epistles written by Paul.
They are Christ’s final marching orders for the Church today. They have the correct interpretation for the day we live in. Yes, we can take our stand and rest assured. We have the correct interpretation for today when we follow Christ’s words given through Paul.
In Ephesians 1:3 the Word tells us that we are looking for a heavenly home, not an earthly kingdom.
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ” (Eph. 1:3).
“For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ” (Phil. 3:20).
Yes, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have God’s Word for all people to study, but they are written to the people of the kingdom dispensation. We know Christ was addressing those for whom the kingdom was coming to earth. How? Because the Bible tells us so.
J.
I find it too long and hard to understand.
Pancho Frijoles
Well-known member
The purpose of this thread is not to talk about the Bahai Faith. Please refer to the title of the thread and focus on the topic.
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