I was raised in a good Christian home. I have been a disciple of Jesus Christ for all of my life. I am 86 years old. I have three degrees. I also know how to study. And the revelation that I receive tells me to ignore people like you who think you receive revelation like Saul because it is the thinking of delusional people.
God loves you - Anyone who is telling you he doesn't is lying to you
- Thread starter GallagherM
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jeremiah1five
Active Member
You rely too much on textbook theology. I know because I can recognize those positions as I used to believe in them myself. You need to do independent study. But what I am more astounded by is your lack of actually looking at Scripture and not recognizing how many textbook theologies is contradicted by Scripture.
And as far as the revelation Saul received? The man was a rabbi and Pharisee, and he remained a rabbi and Pharisee throughout his life. Saul states himself he believes in the Law and the prophets and is obedient to the Law and the prophets. As a rabbi and Pharisee Saul studied the Old Testament Scripture in light of his anointing and as witness to the things taking place in Israel as a result of the presence of the Holy Spirit of Promise given to Israel by God as prophesied by Joel. Joel's prophecy was to and for Israel. God promised His Spirit TO Israel and to Israel He came, as prophesied by Jesus in John 14-16, His talk about the Comforter.
Yes, I can claim the same revelation that Saul received because I know Saul studied the Hebrew Scripture in order to understand the New Covenant era Israel found herself in from Pentecost going forward. I have the Holy Spirit, I have a good translation (KJV), and I have a good linguist (Strong.) Saul had the Scripture (Old Testament) and he had books and scrolls, most likely written by rabbi's and other Hebrew theologians in the past.
13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments. 2 Timothy 4:13.
Fact: Jesus the man ascended to heaven to His Father.
Fact: Jesus promised to return.
Fact: Jesus' return will occur in the end times.
Fact: Jesus did not return a second, third, ninth, twentieth time to personally teach Saul anything.
Fact: Jesus promised the Comforter who would be with the believers forever.
Fact: The Holy Spirit that anointed Saul, Peter, James, John, and the others is the same Holy Spirit that anointed and remains with me.
Fact: The promise Jesus gave to the twelve is the same promise given to me:
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 16:12–14.
Why do you attach to me an inability with the same ability you attach to Saul of the same Spirit that is given equally to each and every believer as something "extra-biblical" or something impossible? Saul studied under the anointing and the Lord gave him understanding of the Old Testament prophecies and promises. His understanding was directly tied to his calling and his spiritual gifts. I know my calling, and I know my spiritual gifts, and because I claim an equal anointing as Saul I am "thinking more highly (of myself) than I ought" and in your limited mind and understanding my claim to the same Holy Spirit I am in your mind doing something or saying something that does not match Saul? That it cannot match Saul, because you assign some extra-spiritual abilities to Saul that are not limited to Scripture.
You need to bring Saul back down from the pedestal you've made for him that elevates him above all other believers in Christ. You hold to the same attitude that will eventually contribute to the killing of the Lord's two witnesses in Revelation 11. These two witnesses are prophesied to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, and your attitude and false belief will join others of ignorant means and seek to kill the Lord's prophets thinking they do God service!
You are guilty as charged.
And I am astounded by your lack of understanding of most of the New Testament. Perhaps you need to look into some of that textbook theology; what you are espousing is sometimes just plain silly.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Plain silly?
Saul states he continues to obey the Law and the Prophets.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: Acts 24:13–14.
Do you deny this?
Answer:
Others state Saul's obedience to the Law (and the Prophets):
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:23–24.
Do you deny this?
Answer:
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Very good.
So, if Saul obeyed the Law of Moses and the Prophets then it is reasonable to say that he also taught the same to born-again Christians - who were Jews.
Yea or nay?
Additionally, since Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee his rabbinical training and education reveals itself in his letters, yes? No?
The NT does not teach that we are not to obey the Law. In fact Jesus took the Law a couple of steps beyond that given. It teaches that the Law is incapable of salvation.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
I answered you.
@jeremiah1five, I must say that you are about the most racist person I have come across in a very long time. Shame on you..
jeremiah1five
Active Member
jeremiah1five
Active Member
#1. So, if Saul obeyed the Law of Moses and the Prophets then it is reasonable to say that he also taught the same to born-again Christians - who were Jews.
Yea or nay?
#2. Additionally, since Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee his rabbinical training and education reveals itself in his letters, yes? No?
Answer me.
As I said, Paul never said that anyone should ignore the Law of Moses. He just said that the Law was incapable of bringing salvation.
When you identify born-again Christians as Jews, it is pretty obvious that you are indeed very racist.
When you interpret Jew and Greek to mean Jew and Hellenistic Jew it is pretty obvious that you are indeed very racist.
You interpretation of the NT as God's word to the Jew and not to the non-Jew, it is pretty obvious that you are indeed very racist.
You are it seems to me to be very bigoted against the non-Jew theologically which is quite antagonistic against God's NT revelation.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
That's not entirely true. Look at what Saul said in his Philippian letter:
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Philippians 3:4–6.
By claiming to be "blameless" where the Law is concerned, Saul is saying that he is 'justified.'
"As touching the Law, a Pharisee."
"[as] touching the righteousness which is in the Law, blameless."
What an extraordinary thing to say. "Righteousness [which] is in the Law, blameless?" According to Scripture anyone who is "justified" is saved. God has declared the person, "Not Guilty!" of transgressing the Law. This is salvation.
But Saul says the opposite in Galatians:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Galatians 2:16.
Clearly, we see Saul's double mindedness. Which is it, Saul?
Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee. He, and Jesus, also a rabbi, both taught the people from out of the Law and the Prophets. He taught nothing else for the Law and the Prophets was his ministry. Soon after his conversion on the road to Damascus Saul disappeared for about 14-17 years, until Barnabas went and brought him to Antioch (Syria) where he pastored the sheep in that city. In Acts 13:1-4 we see Saul and Barnabas were in this church when the spirit of prophecy came upon one of the prophets there and the Holy Spirit - through prophecy - said to "separate Saul and Barnabas for the work I have called them to. After some days, even weeks, of further prayer and fasting the church fellowship in Antioch sent them away. What was Saul doing for those 14-17 years? He was separated and studying the Old Testament under the anointing and as the great thinker he was, was able to see through the Old Testament the New Covenant era upon Israel and was able to discuss, teach, argue, in his letters how the New Covenant was directly tied to the Law of Moses, specifically, the Ceremonial Law.
Jeremiah's prophecy of a New Covenant is brief but to the point. Israel was to be forgiven of her sins - past, present, and future - and everything that we find in his letters can be found in the Law of Moses. When Jesus began His Ministry to Israel the religious leaders of the time were in constant conflict with Jesus, but the underlying problem between Jesus and them was that Jesus taught the "spirit of the Law" and the religious leaders only understood the "letter of the Law." Without the Holy Spirit that's all they could understand, and this was a problem also with Saul, until he became born-again and through study under the anointing could see the "spirit of the Law" and this is what he taught in person, and through his letters.
Yeah it is. You continue to interpret everything through the eyes of the false Judaizers much like those that Paul had to contend with.
There is nothing where the law is concerned wherein anyone could be justified. To be justified is to be saved. That is not available from the law except through having obeyed the law perfectly. And Paul said than none had done that.
Undergraduate degree in Mechanical Engineering. MS and PhD in Engineering Mechanics which is basically Classical Physics.
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