praise_yeshua
Active Member
It is always about THEM.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
Foreknowledge and Predistination
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
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It is always about THEM.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar:
Before that one is the Father's
brightfame52
Active Member
The Father did the choosing, election duh ?
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he[The Father] hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Why is the "in him" even there if this is a reference to a choice in "us".
My rebellious children tried to use this same logic on me when they wanted to do evil things. They'd take the words I said and try to twist them to their advantage.
So go for it. If it means what you say it means, then why is "in Him" even there?
Before they were given to Christ they were the Father's
Hello
John 17:1–9 (ESV) — 1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
civic
Active Member
Yes they overlook in Christ , in Him written several times throughout Ephesians 1.
Ephesians 1:3–14 (KJV 1900) — 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; 8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
In Calvinism, Christ is subservient to the "Father's" choice in THEM.
civic
Active Member
Yes and to their individual election over the Elect One who is Christ.
Salvation by works void of personal faith.
brightfame52
Active Member
The Father did the choosing, election duh ?
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he[The Father] hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
brightfame52
Active Member
The Father did the choosing, election duh ?
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he[The Father] hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
The Father choosing them is how they get into Christ, by Him duh 1 Cor 1:30
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
So they are called the elect according to God the Father 1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
As always, you're not answering anything you're asked. Why is "in him" in the verse at all.
Here let me "spell it out for you".... IF WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE......
Verse #4 would read "According as He, has chosen us before the foundation of the world".
It does not. "in Him" is clearly stated. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world
The requirement of including "in Him" is necessary. "in Him" clearly established God's choice in Christ.
As always, you're so self centered that YOU replace Jesus Christ.
civic
Active Member
Yes it’s an anthropocentric systematic
Believe
Active Member
Say that three times real fast.
Before they were given to Christ they were the Father's
Hello
John 17:1–9 (ESV) — 1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.
BTW election according to foreknowledge is not unconditional election
Are you trying to refute yourself?
Yes and that makes Calvinism christologically deficient and unbiblical
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Recently I tried to pronounce a very long German proper name that contained "Schmidt"...... I completely embarrassed myself.
Believe
Active Member
Yeah I can see how that could be a problem.
brightfame52
Active Member
The Father did the choosing, election duh ?
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he[The Father] hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
The Father in election put the elect in Christ 1 Cor 1:30
30 But of him[The Father] are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
Now the word chosen in Eph 1:4 is the greek word eklegomai and means:
o pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self
Now its the same word in 1 Cor 1 when writing to the Corinthians
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
So Eph 1:4 shows how the Corinthian chosen were put in Christ by the Father Election before the foundation,
And they are the foreknown of the Father 1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect/chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
brightfame52
Active Member
The Father did the choosing, election duh ?
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he[The Father] hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
The Father choosing them is how they get into Christ, by Him duh 1 Cor 1:30
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
So they are called the elect according to God the Father 1 Pet 1:2
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
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