Foreknowledge and Predistination

[brightfame52]

You still refute yourself

election based on foreknowledge is contrary to unconditional election

Concerning those given to Christ

Before they were given to Christ they were the Father's

Hello

John 17:1–9 (ESV) — 1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

The Father did the choosing, election duh ?

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he[The Father] hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Father choosing them is how they get into Christ, by Him duh 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

So they are called the elect according to God the Father 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[TomL]

The Father did the choosing, election duh ?

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he[The Father] hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Father choosing them is how they get into Christ, by Him duh 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

So they are called the elect according to God the Father 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

You still refute yourself

election based on foreknowledge is contrary to unconditional election

Concerning those given to Christ

Before they were given to Christ they were the Father's

Hello

John 17:1–9 (ESV) — 1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

 

[brightfame52]

You still refute yourself

election based on foreknowledge is contrary to unconditional election

Concerning those given to Christ

Before they were given to Christ they were the Father's

Hello

John 17:1–9 (ESV) — 1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed. 6 “I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they know that everything that you have given me is from you. 8 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me. 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.

The Father did the choosing, election duh ?

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he[The Father] hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Father choosing them is how they get into Christ, by Him duh 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him[The Father] are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

So they are called the elect according to God the Father 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

 

[TomL]

The Father did the choosing, election duh ?

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he[The Father] hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

The Father choosing them is how they get into Christ, by Him duh 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him[The Father] are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

So they are called the elect according to God the Father 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

According to foreknowledge not unconditionality

Hello

 

[brightfame52]

According to foreknowledge not unconditionality

Hello

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/doctrine-of-unconditional-election.1384/page-43#post-79529

 

[TomL]

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/doctrine-of-unconditional-election.1384/page-43#post-79529

you refuted yourself

affirming election according to foreknowledge

 

[brightfame52]

There is a certain group of people that God had selected to be recipients of the everlasting kingdom of Glory, a Kingdom prepared specifically for them from the foundation of the world Matt 25:33-34

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 ;Then shall the King say unto them[Sheep] on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you[Sheep] from the foundation of the world:

Prepared for them b4 they were ever born !

 

[civic]

All Gentiles. All Jews. That covers everyone.

yep !

 

[Joe]

The often missed persons that God our Father foreknew is mentioned in the preceding verse, 28.

Verse 28 was never intended to be separated from 29.

Rom 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. (29) For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

When read correctly, the ones who are foreknown in verse 29 are the ones in verse 28 who love God, having conformed to God's purpose.

Yes, God foreknew those who would love Him, having conformed to His saving purpose. The Lord invites us by His Spirit upon hearing the Gospel. He convicts us, showing us our sinfulness. And He invites us into living a life that is pleasing to Him and to us. We receive this great salvation by trusting God, conforming to His saving purpose.

There is no misunderstanding that we who believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ are foreknown to love God and predestined by Him to salvation. He invited us. He justified us in the death of His own Son for our sins. And He is glorifying us right now inwardly by His indwelling Spirit, who will always be in us forever! And on the resurrection day to come when God reveals us to creation, we will be in a glorified immortal body, being completely conformed into the image of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God foreknew those who love Him, having conformed to His purpose.


God Bless

 

[Complete]

The often missed persons that God our Father foreknew is mentioned in the preceding verse, 28.

Verse 28 was never intended to be separated from 29.

Rom 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. (29) For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

When read correctly, the ones who are foreknown in verse 29 are the ones in verse 28 who love God, having conformed to God's purpose.

Yes, God foreknew those who would love Him, having conformed to His saving purpose. The Lord invites us by His Spirit upon hearing the Gospel. He convicts us, showing us our sinfulness. And He invites us into living a life that is pleasing to Him and to us. We receive this great salvation by trusting God, conforming to His saving purpose.

There is no misunderstanding that we who believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ are foreknown to love God and predestined by Him to salvation. He invited us. He justified us in the death of His own Son for our sins. And He is glorifying us right now inwardly by His indwelling Spirit, who will always be in us forever! And on the resurrection day to come when God reveals us to creation, we will be in a glorified immortal body, being completely conformed into the image of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God foreknew those who love Him, having conformed to His purpose.


God Bless

Subject Heading:- 'Foreknowledge and Predestination'

'And we know that all things work together for good
to them that love God,
to them who are the called
according to His purpose.
For whom He did foreknow,
He also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called:
and whom He called, them He also justified:
and whom He justified, them He also glorified.'
(Rom 8:28-30)

Hello @Joe,

Thank you for your entry.

Into my mind comes the knowledge that those so 'chosen' during the period of the ministries of John the baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and, 'Them that heard Him' (Heb. 2:3): Which takes us to the end of the Acts period; would be the believing remnant of Israel, and those of the Gentiles who were grafted into Israel's Olive Tree in order to make Israel jealous, as they partook of the root and fatness of Israel's Olive Tree, and received the blessings of Abraham (Rom. 11:11); Romans 11 explains this perfectly.

God's choice at that time, was for a reason, as Romans 11 reveals: Though ultimately all Israel shall be saved.

The Letters that were written following that of Roman's by Paul, reveal a new creation in Christ Jesus, made known Divinely to him, and written from his imprisonment in Rome, as circular letters, to Eph. Phil. Col. 2Tim. Titus and Phile. These should be considered separately, in relation to this subject I believe.

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
To the praise of the glory of Hs grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in The Beloved.
In Whom we have redemption through His blood,
the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace;
Wherein He hath abounded toward us ...... '
(Eph 1:3-8a)

Praise God!

Just thoughts,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[praise_yeshua]

The often missed persons that God our Father foreknew is mentioned in the preceding verse, 28.

Verse 28 was never intended to be separated from 29.

Rom 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. (29) For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (30) Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

When read correctly, the ones who are foreknown in verse 29 are the ones in verse 28 who love God, having conformed to God's purpose.

Yes, God foreknew those who would love Him, having conformed to His saving purpose. The Lord invites us by His Spirit upon hearing the Gospel. He convicts us, showing us our sinfulness. And He invites us into living a life that is pleasing to Him and to us. We receive this great salvation by trusting God, conforming to His saving purpose.

There is no misunderstanding that we who believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ are foreknown to love God and predestined by Him to salvation. He invited us. He justified us in the death of His own Son for our sins. And He is glorifying us right now inwardly by His indwelling Spirit, who will always be in us forever! And on the resurrection day to come when God reveals us to creation, we will be in a glorified immortal body, being completely conformed into the image of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God foreknew those who love Him, having conformed to His purpose.


God Bless

God hasn't changed His mind about what pleases Him. He has always known what pleases Him. If that were to change, then He certainly wouldn't be worthy of all acceptance and worship.

Foreknowledge is the unchanging nature of His Character. The immutability of His Character. Individuals are beneficiaries of such benevolence and consistency of Character.

It really has nothing to do with individuals. Individuals change. God doesn't.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Subject Heading:- 'Foreknowledge and Predestination'

'And we know that all things work together for good
to them that love God,
to them who are the called
according to His purpose.
For whom He did foreknow,
He also did predestinate
to be conformed to the image of His Son,
that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called:
and whom He called, them He also justified:
and whom He justified, them He also glorified.'
(Rom 8:28-30)

Hello @Joe,

Thank you for your entry.

Into my mind comes the knowledge that those so 'chosen' during the period of the ministries of John the baptist, the Lord Jesus Christ, and, 'Them that heard Him' (Heb. 2:3): Which takes us to the end of the Acts period; would be the believing remnant of Israel, and those of the Gentiles who were grafted into Israel's Olive Tree in order to make Israel jealous, as they partook of the root and fatness of Israel's Olive Tree, and received the blessings of Abraham (Rom. 11:11); Romans 11 explains this perfectly.

God's choice at that time, was for a reason, as Romans 11 reveals: Though ultimately all Israel shall be saved.

The Letters that were written following that of Roman's by Paul, reveal a new creation in Christ Jesus, made known Divinely to him, and written from his imprisonment in Rome, as circular letters, to Eph. Phil. Col. 2Tim. Titus and Phile. These should be considered separately, in relation to this subject I believe.

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
To the praise of the glory of Hs grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in The Beloved.
In Whom we have redemption through His blood,
the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace;
Wherein He hath abounded toward us ...... '
(Eph 1:3-8a)

Praise God!

Just thoughts,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Being exacting.....

The "new creature" wasn't unique to Paul's writing. It is found throughout the OT in the change of faithful through history.

Example, Moses tried his way and failed. When Moses meet the "Great I AM" at the burning bush, we know what happened afterward.

Change. It is all about change. It is more than the will of the mind. It is an empowerment that comes from being "born of God".

 

[Complete]

Being exacting.....

The "new creature" wasn't unique to Paul's writing. It is found throughout the OT in the change of faithful through history.

Example, Moses tried his way and failed. When Moses meet the "Great I AM" at the burning bush, we know what happened afterward.

Change. It is all about change. It is more than the will of the mind. It is an empowerment that comes from being "born of God".

Hello @praise_yeshua,

The new creation that I am referring to, is not that of a new creature, but of a new company created in the light of the failure of Israel to come to repentance and receive their Messiah and King, going instead into the darkness of unbelief in Acts 28, and salvation being 'sent to the Gentiles' (Acts 28:28), which was prior to this 'of the Jews'(John 4:22). This new company is made of believing Jew and Gentile, in which there is equality (prior to this, Israel had a prior place) and total unity, in Christ Jesus their Lord and Head. This is the Church which is the Body of Christ. Christ is now among the nations, their 'hope of glory' (Col. 1:27).

This knowledge had been, 'hid in God' (Eph.3:9), until it's revelation to Paul, and therefore 'unsearchable' (Eph.3:8) Hidden in God from generations past (Col. 1:26). Therefore a Mystery.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[praise_yeshua]

Hello @praise_yeshua,

The new creation that I am referring to, is not that of a new creature, but of a new company created in the light of the failure of Israel to come to repentance and receive their Messiah and King, going instead into the darkness of unbelief in Acts 28, and salvation being 'sent to the Gentiles' (Acts 28:28), which was prior to this 'of the Jews'(John 4:22). This new company is made of believing Jew and Gentile, in which there is equality (prior to this, Israel had a prior place) and total unity, in Christ Jesus their Lord and Head. This is the Church which is the Body of Christ. Christ is now among the nations, their 'hope of glory' (Col. 1:27).

This knowledge had been, 'hid in God' (Eph.3:9), until it's revelation to Paul, and therefore 'unsearchable' (Eph.3:8) Hidden in God from generations past (Col. 1:26). Therefore a Mystery.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

What you're reference wasn't "hidden" in the fact it wasn't known. It was hidden in the fact that it wasn't believed. I realize there are many that try to say this. You don't have to do this yourself.

For example, the same words are used in reference to the "God of this world".

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

Unbelief blinds. Unbelief often creates innocence of God's ways.

God never purposed the nonsense you see in Judaism where they isolated themselves from this world and began to claim exclusive rights to God.

Ezekiel appeals this fact when he writes of Israel sin being like those of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Eze 16:48 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Abraham foreknew that all the nations of the earth would be blessed in his faithfulness to believe the message of Messiah.

 

[Complete]

What you're reference wasn't "hidden" in the fact it wasn't known. It was hidden in the fact that it wasn't believed. I realize there are many that try to say this. You don't have to do this yourself.

Hello @praise_yeshua,

It was indeed hidden, for in Ephesians 3:9 we are told that it was, 'hid in God'. It was not the subject of the Old Testament Prophets, of the gospel records or the earlier works of Paul. It was revealed to him alone, and made known by him in the epistles written from prison (Eph. Phil. Col. 2 Tim. Titus and Phile.).

For example, the same words are used in reference to the "God of this world".

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
ielief blinds. Unbelief often creates innocence of God's ways.

I acknowledge what you are saying, but it does not relate to the truth concerning the mystery made known to Paul. For Colossians 1:26 and Ephesians 3:9 are emphatic that it was hid in God. There can be no safer hiding place.

God never purposed the nonsense you see in Judaism where they isolated themselves from this world and began to claim exclusive rights to God.

Ezekiel appeals this fact when he writes of Israel sin being like those of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Eze 16:48 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Abraham foreknew that all the nations of the earth would be blessed in his faithfulness to believe the message of Messiah.

* None the less Israel was not to be counted among the nations, they were a nation born of promise, and were very much The People of God, and will be again.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[praise_yeshua]

Hello @praise_yeshua,

It was indeed hidden, for in Ephesians 3:9 we are told that it was, 'hid in God'. It was not the subject of the Old Testament Prophets, of the gospel records or the earlier works of Paul. It was revealed to him alone, and made known by him in the epistles written from prison (Eph. Phil. Col. 2 Tim. Titus and Phile.).

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

It is still hidden in the sense you're referencing. It is hidden in Christ, In God.

I acknowledge what you are saying, but it does not relate to the truth concerning the mystery made known to Paul. For Colossians 1:26 and Ephesians 3:9 are emphatic that it was hid in God. There can be no safer hiding place.

Who hath known the mind of God that they might be His instructor?

We have the mind of God in Christ. As such, we gradually learn of the very things through experience and revelation.

Again. It doesn't mean that it was completely unknown. It was foretold and lived by the faithful. A person seeking God, could know it. (faithful) The wise do not seek God. The weak things of this life are made to confound the wise.

In our humility and broken spirits, we begin seeing what was always there.

* None the less Israel was not to be counted among the nations, they were a nation born of promise, and were very much The People of God, and will be again.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

There were promises to Adam and Eve long before promises made to Abraham. God made a covenant with Himself before this world was ever formed.

Heb 6:13 For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

Same thing is referenced in Genesis 1:26

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Adam was the beginning. Not the purpose.

We have so much better things than how things started.....

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Adam and Eve were pilgrims. Always pilgrims from the beginning.

 

[Complete]

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

It is still hidden in the sense you're referencing. It is hidden in Christ, In God.

' Wherefore I also,
after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory,
may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;
that ye may know what is the hope of His calling,
and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe,
according to the working of His mighty power,
Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead,
and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named,
not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under His feet,
and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.'
(Eph 1:15)

Hello @praise_yeshua,

Paul prays here for the saints and faithful who would receive this circular letter that they would receive the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him. For the mystery that was to be revealed within it's pages was not observable by any other means.

Thank you for your responses.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[praise_yeshua]

' Wherefore I also,
after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory,
may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him:
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened;
that ye may know what is the hope of His calling,
and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe,
according to the working of His mighty power,
Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead,
and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named,
not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under His feet,
and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church,
Which is His body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.'
(Eph 1:15)

Hello @praise_yeshua,

Paul prays here for the saints and faithful who would receive this circular letter that they would receive the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him. For the mystery that was to be revealed within it's pages was not observable by any other means.

Thank you for your responses.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Sure. There is more to know. Do you know all of that "mystery" yourself? I don't. I know some of it. Many have. Paul even spoke of glory in a man that was caught into the third heaven and saw things it was unlawful for him to speak of.

We look through a "dark glass" that often just shows our reflection. When Paul was close to his death he wrote these words.... the very same man you're referencing....

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[brightfame52]

@Joe

God foreknew those who love Him, having conformed to His purpose.

Thats salvation by your goodness.

 

[Complete]

Sure. There is more to know. Do you know all of that "mystery" yourself? I don't. I know some of it. Many have. Paul even spoke of glory in a man that was caught into the third heaven and saw things it was unlawful for him to speak of.

We look through a "dark glass" that often just shows our reflection. When Paul was close to his death he wrote these words.... the very same man you're referencing....

Php 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Hello @praise_yeshua,

I do pray that prayer in Ephesians 1:17-23: I am seeing a little, by the grace of God, but I know that I am only seeing the tip of the iceberg. there is so much yet to be seen, for which I praise God.

Yes, Paul desired to have part in that resurrection out from among dead ones, but was aware that it was necessary that he be faithful, and endure unto the end, hence his words that you have quoted:-

'Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss
for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:
for whom I have suffered the loss of all things,
and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
And be found in Him,
not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,
but that which is through the faith of Christ,
the righteousness which is of God by faith:
That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection,
and the fellowship of His sufferings,
being made conformable unto His death;
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection (exanastasis) of the dead.'
(Php 3:8-11)

As a Jew, Paul believed in the resurrection of the just and the unjust, didn't he? He also knew that should Israel obey the call to repentance, that Peter called for in Acts 3:19-21, then the hope of 1 Thess. 4:13-18 would take place: because God would send Jesus as promise;. They did not repent: but Paul has since been shown another resurrection, one that he desired to have part in. He also desired to receive the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus; which is what he strove to attain, by enduring unto the end and remaining faithful unto death. Which praise God! He did, being martyred for his faith in Christ.

'When Christ, Who is our life, shall appear,
then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.'
(Col 3:4)

There are another two resurrections referred to in the book of Revelation. isn't there? The first being for those who love not their lives unto death, during the tribulation: and who lose theirs in defence of the testimony of Christ; They are the Overcomers of the book of revelation, which is one of two spoken of, as the first and the second resurrection, which has 1,000 years between them. Those who overcome will reign with Christ during that time (Rev.20:5-6).

Sorry getting a little off topic here.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris