Faith to Faith

[praise_yeshua]

I didn't claim that he invented the concept, but that he coined the phrase. So I was curious, do you think that that Luther's position that an idle faith is not a justifying faith is in accordance with or in rejection of Sola Fide?

That is how you "treated" the phrase in your comments. You can't judge actual history

Luther started out well but bowed to peer pressure. Much like you're doing now. My faith doesn't stand in your approval of me. Luther lost that later in his life. He had significant pressure from many Calvinists during his time to embrace what they believed about the writing of James. He folded.

Others consider it canonical, which is why it is included in Catholic and Protestant Bibles. In any case, the Bible does not directly state that we are justified by faith alone.

I don't care what Catholics ultimately choose to do. I make my own choices. I'll answer to God for those choices but I will not answer to YOU. It is small thing for me to be judged by you.... Do you remember those words? Did James tell you those words. James didn't understand those words.

I'll be glad to discuss the canon with you. I started a thread hoping that several would join the discussion. You didn't. I know the details. I've debated it for years. I rejected James as a young man. I'm much older now and nothing has changed my mind. Feel free to try.

Repentance is inherently an act of faith and it is by that faith that God is pleased. The Jews who sought to murder Jesus also ate food and breathed air, so you might want to be careful with doing that. The issue of whether we should repent from our sins is not the same as believing whether Jesus is the Messiah.

You have not denied that you believe repentance is embracing your potential. You're blatantly ignoring what I said. What a silly comparison. I dealt with what they believed. Not what they are or breathed. What are you going to use next in defense? The sky blue and the grass is green?

You're dead wrong. Repentance can not happen until a person expresses faith. Your mind can not see yourself for what you truly are without the Spirit of God. Repentance is granted. You don't earn repentance. Repentance is not embracing your potential to keep the law... you can't keep the law. None of your ancestors have. You're not any better than them.

You are blatantly taking that of out context. The fact that he said that the people he was speaking to have not obeyed the law does not mean that he was saying that no one has kept it. Moreover, notice that he connected those who have uncircumcised hearts and who resist the Spirit with not keeping God's law.

If someone has keep the law, then Christ died in vain. Your own requirement dictates this. You believe that man is capable of keeping the law. Contrary to you OWN ACTIONS IN BREAKING THE LAW, you believe you are capable of keeping the law. Which is being divorced from reality.

Pray tell. Who has keep the law? Till you produce someone that has, all you have is an opinion. A hypothesis rooted in an unidentified anomaly.

God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey His law (Psalms 119:29-30, Exodus 33:13, Genesis 6:8-9, Romans 1:5, Titus 2:11-14), yet you resist His grace while telling me that I need it.

And here once again... on full display... is you dishonoring Jesus Christ.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Thank God for the Scriptures. Through the Scriptures we can recognize your mistake. You dishonor Christ by destroying His rightful place and actions of bring Grace to humanity.

 

[Soyeong]

Like I haven't answered you many times now.

Indeed, you have not and it is dishonest to act like you have.

If being "saved from sin" means you MUST be obedient and not sin...... THEN WHY do YOU sin? YOU.... I said ..... YOU fail your own theological requirement.

Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to live in sin, so we our salvation from sin must also include being saved from continuing to live in sin, which is an ongoing process that will not be completed until he who began a good work in us is faithful to compete it on the day of Christ Jesus (Philippians 1:6). There is a difference between someone who does not have the goal of living in obedience to God's law and someone who has that goal through faith, who repents if they sin and returns to obedience through faith.

Then why do you do ungodly things? A righteous man FALLS and gets up. However, HE FALLS. Over and OVER and OVER again. Just like you do.

Apart for faith that brings Grace and Mercy. You have no hope. You're not obedient. You're pretending you are.

Whenever we sin we have a choice between continuing to sin or repenting and returning to obedience. The fact that I don't have perfect obedience does not negate the fact that I have obeyed God's law.

 

[Soyeong]

That is how you "treated" the phrase in your comments. You can't judge actual history

Luther started out well but bowed to peer pressure. Much like you're doing now. My faith doesn't stand in your approval of me. Luther lost that later in his life. He had significant pressure from many Calvinists during his time to embrace what they believed about the writing of James. He folded.

You used a phrase that Luther coined, so I wanted to know whether you thought that what he believed was in accordance or against Sola Fide. You're still avoiding answering my question.

I don't care what Catholics ultimately choose to do. I make my own choices. I'll answer to God for those choices but I will not answer to YOU. It is small thing for me to be judged by you.... Do you remember those words? Did James tell you those words. James didn't understand those words.

I'll be glad to discuss the canon with you. I started a thread hoping that several would join the discussion. You didn't. I know the details. I've debated it for years. I rejected James as a young man. I'm much older now and nothing has changed my mind. Feel free to try.

I didn't judge you. That is your loss.

You have not denied that you believe repentance is embracing your potential. You're blatantly ignoring what I said. What a silly comparison. I dealt with what they believed. Not what they are or breathed. What are you going to use next in defense? The sky blue and the grass is green?

You're dead wrong. Repentance can not happen until a person expresses faith. Your mind can not see yourself for what you truly are without the Spirit of God. Repentance is granted. You don't earn repentance. Repentance is not embracing your potential to keep the law... you can't keep the law. None of your ancestors have. You're not any better than them.

I stated what I think what repentance is. You make up random things about what I believe that I have no need to defend and and don't care whether I deny them. Repentance is turning away from learning on our own understanding of right and wrong and trusting in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through what he has instructed, so again it is inherently an act of faith or a way to express faith. I have suggested nothing like that we need to earn repentance. God's word says that His law is not too difficult to keep, so believing that I can is a matter of putting my faith in God, not about thinking that I am better than anyone else. Countless people have kept it because as God's word states it is not too difficult to keep. Do you have faith in God's word when it says that it is not too difficult to keep? It will be of no surprise when you refuse to answer that question.

If someone has keep the law, then Christ died in vain.

That is your own made up doctrine.

Your own requirement dictates this.

That is being detached from reality.

You believe that man is capable of keeping the law.

Because that's what God's word states and there are example in the Bible of people who kept it.

Contrary to you OWN ACTIONS IN BREAKING THE LAW, you believe you are capable of keeping the law. Which is being divorced from reality.

The fact that I have broken the law does not mean that I have not kept it. The fact that there has been times when I have not honored my parents does not mean that I have never honored them, and for you to think that is indeed to be divorced from reality.

Pray tell. Who has keep the law? Till you produce someone that has, all you have is an opinion. A hypothesis rooted in an unidentified anomaly.

For example, those in Joshua 22:1-3, Luke 1:5-6, Revelation 14:12, and Revelation 22:14.

And here once again... on full display... is you dishonoring Jesus Christ.

Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Thank God for the Scriptures. Through the Scriptures we can recognize your mistake. You dishonor Christ by destroying His rightful place and actions of bring Grace to humanity.

I'm not dishonoring Jesus by citing verses from the Bible that you disagree with. In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so grace and truth came through Jesus because he spent his ministry teaching us to obey God's law by word and by example.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You used a phrase that Luther coined, so I wanted to know whether you thought that what he believed was in accordance or against Sola Fide. You're still avoiding answering my question.

I answered you. I don't care if Luther did or didn't. He is not my authority. Your appeal does not apply to me. I give you valid answers and you reject them.

I didn't judge you. That is your loss.

You're demanding that I adhere to your law to be in fellowship with God. That is judging me. That is why you're following me around the forum when I've told you we've said enough to one another. Haven't I said that? None of what you've said in this thread, has anything to do with what I wrote in the OP. You're off topic. You're endlessly off topic throughout this forum. As I have said and I will say once again. Have it your way. I'm not judging you. I leave you to God.

I stated what I think what repentance is. You make up random things about what I believe that I have no need to defend and and don't care whether I deny them. Repentance is turning away from learning on our own understanding of right and wrong and trusting in God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through what he has instructed, so again it is inherently an act of faith or a way to express faith. I have suggested nothing like that we need to earn repentance. God's word says that His law is not too difficult to keep, so believing that I can is a matter of putting my faith in God, not about thinking that I am better than anyone else. Countless people have kept it because as God's word states it is not too difficult to keep. Do you have faith in God's word when it says that it is not too difficult to keep? It will be of no surprise when you refuse to answer that question.

You're denying the reasoned result of your words. I know what your words equal. I have upset you. I've disarmed your arguments. Casting down imaginations and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. That is what I do. That is my calling.

The fact that I have broken the law does not mean that I have not kept it. The fact that there has been times when I have not honored my parents does not mean that I have never honored them, and for you to think that is indeed to be divorced from reality.

Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

I love the Scriptures. The Scriptures say that you are wrong. The fact that you only SOMETIMES keep the law is a witness to your failures and inabilities. You can not cease from sin. You break the law over and over again. You're not alone. Everyone does. Which why I keep telling you that you are not self aware. Maybe one day when you're old and you are literally incapable of helping yourself.... maybe then you will realize that trusting the work of another actually means. I not wishing anything bad upon you. Just making the point. Make your boast of the law now. Things soon change......

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is the Gift of God, its not found in the natural man. When Paul wrote to the Romans He Thanked God for their Faith, he knew it is the Gift of God Rom 1:7-8

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Again in Rom 6:17
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Paul Thanks God for their Gospel obedience from the heart.

 

[brightfame52]

Believing on Christ for Salvation is not a natural thing to do, in fact its one of the Mysteries of Godliness 1 Tim 3:16

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Faith is the Gift of God, its not found in the natural man. When Paul wrote to the Romans He Thanked God for their Faith, he knew it is the Gift of God Rom 1:7-8

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
Again in Rom 6:17
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Paul Thanks God for their Gospel obedience from the heart.

Everything is a gift from God. Every good and perfect gift comes from above. Your appeal to gifts doesn't establish your conclusion.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Believing on Christ for Salvation is not a natural thing to do, in fact its one of the Mysteries of Godliness 1 Tim 3:16

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Must be nice to be so "special".

I thought Christ was the one that is "Special". Why do you seek to take His place? Christ is the only chosen One.

 

[brightfame52]

Everything is a gift from God. Every good and perfect gift comes from above. Your appeal to gifts doesn't establish your conclusion.

Faith is a spiritual gift from Gods Grace.

 

[brightfame52]

Must be nice to be so "special".

I thought Christ was the one that is "Special". Why do you seek to take His place? Christ is the only chosen One.

Believing on Christ is special, its a Mystery of Godliness.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Faith is a spiritual gift from Gods Grace.

So just how many gifts are you going to claim for yourself while denying them to others just like you?

You really believe that man doesn't already have faith in himself?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Believing on Christ is special, its a Mystery of Godliness.

It is not a mystery in that is NOT KNOWN. It is a mystery in that is not often believed. I can tell you something a thousands times and it will profit you nothing if you refuse to believe it.

However, there are natural forces in this world that are designed to destroy our faith in ourselves. Such natural forces weaken our trust in ourselves. There is nothing that you can exclusively claim in that process. It happens to us all.

 

[brightfame52]

So just how many gifts are you going to claim for yourself while denying them to others just like you?

You really believe that man doesn't already have faith in himself?

Not here to discuss myself

 

[brightfame52]

So just how many gifts are you going to claim for yourself while denying them to others just like you?

You really believe that man doesn't already have faith in himself?

Not here to discuss myself

It is not a mystery in that is NOT KNOWN. It is a mystery in that is not often believed. I can tell you something a thousands times and it will profit you nothing if you refuse to believe it.

However, there are natural forces in this world that are designed to destroy our faith in ourselves. Such natural forces weaken our trust in ourselves. There is nothing that you can exclusively claim in that process. It happens to us all.

Believing on Christ is one of the Mysteries of Godliness.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not here to discuss myself

You need to have "skin in the game". Everything I say I apply to myself. That is honest dialogue.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not here to discuss myself

Believing on Christ is one of the Mysteries of Godliness.

Through the plain preaching of the Gospel it is no longer a mystery. Do you refuse to press the Gospel to everyone?

Have they not heard? Their voice has travelled to the ends of the earth. Your appeal to a mystery is misdirected.