Determining such an action
But desire a verse that states God is responsible from those who believe such.
Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".
- Thread starter MTMattie
- Start date
But desire a verse that states God is responsible from those who believe such.
civic
Active Member
It lays off people's responsibility when God is affirmed as having responsibility.there is none.
it comes from human wisdom, the philosophies of men, not God.
Calvinist determinism, however, makes God totally responsible.
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civic
Active Member
Jeremiah 7:31
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.
Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.
Jeremiah 32:35
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.
Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.
Jeremiah 32:35
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.
TibiasDad
Active Member
atpollard
Active Member
So you are only interested in your view of my theology, not in the actual SCRIPTURE … so noted.
Noted wrongly.
Deal with what was posted instead of indulging in such avoidance tactics.
Again, you were asked to explain the patience of God in waiting for the repentance of man when your theology holds this is solely in the hands of God.
Also
How does God want any to not perish when he determined most would, as per Calvinist/reformed theology?
atpollard
Active Member
From post #112
2 Peter 3:8-9
- Here we shift, again, from addressing the scoffing of “scoffers” to speaking directly to the “beloved” … still SAVED, CHRISTIANS, part of the CHURCH.
- POINT 1: “one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day” … the first message to the “beloved” is that God does not reckon time (fast, slow, soon, later) in the same terms that we human beings do. God does not oblige what WE THINK is the correct time for God to act.
- POINT 2: Peter directly and openly denies the charge of the “scoffers” … “scoffers” charge that God is slow to return … Peter replies that the LORD is not slow to fulfill His promise.
- POINT 3: Peter explains why the Lord delays His return … the Lord is patient towards “you”.
- Who are “you”? The “beloved”! The Lord is patient towards the beloved … that is why He delays His return.
- Why does the Lord delay? To avoid unnecessary perishing of any of “you” (the beloved).
- How does this avid perishing? Delay creates more time for “you” (the beloved) to “reach repentance”.
- How can this be, if God is responsible for the salvation of the “beloved”?
- I know, this is the only part you care about and the “Arminian Gotcha” that y’all love to quote, but you really need to know what the heck Peter is talking about to understand the verse, so we had to work our way here.
- If Jesus returned in AD 100 when all the people that had first read Peter’s words were old men, God would have been faithful to everything that Peter promised. Jesus died around AD 33 and Peter wrote his letter in the AD 60’s, so by AD 100 the LORD would have delayed 70 years and many people would have heard the gospel and believed between AD 66 and AD 100 … so everything Peter said would have been true. However WE would have never been born, so God could not have “foreknown” and “predestined” and “called” and “justified” us [Romans 8:29-30].
- Thus we have the answer to your question. WE (you and I) are the “beloved” whom God is not willing that ANY of us “beloved” should perish, so Jesus delays his return (the question the “scoffers” asked) to provide time for US to ALL REACH REPENTANCE.
- God is “long suffering” of the sin and the scoffers, thus He continues to store up for a future day of judgement rather than come prematurely and loose some of the yet unborn and unrepentant “beloved”.
atpollard
Active Member
there is none.
it comes from human wisdom, the philosophies of men, not God.
From the “philosopher” Isaiah: “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these.”
From the “philosopher” David: “But our God in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”
From the “philosopher” Joseph: “But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.”
brightfame52
Active Member
Evidence of salvation.
brightfame52
Active Member
Preaching is instrumental in conversion work, thats why Jesus sent the apostle Paul to preach to the unconverted generated gentiles, to convert them Acts 26:17-18
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
I know you dont understand these things
Dizerner
Active Member
Why would ask what my point is when I already said it?
Yes, God DOES bear responsibility for creating our choices, and the possibility of sin's existence.
And he does not shy away from it, either.
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brightfame52
Active Member
Most who call themselves Christian believe that God offers salvation, and a man is saved only if he receives, or accepts, this offer. However, in stating that salvation is a gift which God gives to His people chosen before the world began, the Bible clearly teaches that salvation is not an offer, therefore, it does not require anything apart from grace for it to take effect in a man’s life. There is no decision for a spiritually dead man to make, before he can be made alive. Paul did not decide to see the Light, He was shown the Light. Man does not make a decision to be saved, man is saved by the grace of God. A spiritually dead man can make no decision for life, which is why he must be made alive if he is to see life. PAUL, THE APOSTLE NEVER, EVER SAW THE LIGHT BEFORE HE WAS SHOWN THE LIGHT! https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-13
Dizerner
Active Member
God can give supernatural grace to the spiritually dead.
With God, all things are possible.
Still he runs. Not willing to believe the word of God.
You believe the lord returned in 100 A.D?
Biblical evidence please
Regarding your point
2 Peter 3:8–13 (LEB) — 8 Now, dear friends, do not let this one thing escape your notice, that one day with the Lord is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like one day. 9 The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will disappear with a rushing noise, and the celestial bodies will be destroyed by being burned up, and the earth and the deeds done on it will be disclosed. 11 Because all these things are being destroyed in this way, what sort of people must you be in holy behavior and godliness, 12 while waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by being burned up and the celestial bodies will melt as they are consumed by heat! 13 But according to his promise, we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness resides.
You do not answer why he is being patient for them to repent when your theology holds this is solely accomplished by him having been predetermined before the foundation of the earth.
Did he forget what he determined?.
The verse quite clearly shows man with the ability to repent and God waiting on that repentance.
brightfame52
Active Member
Salvation by grace is not because of man, but despite what a man is, does and cannot do. If election, or salvation, were in any way influenced by the efforts—an act, or acts—of a man, including that of believing, then salvation could not possibly be something unmerited, or undeserved, and, therefore, by grace alone. Salvation would not be consequent to the will of God, but only to, or as well as, the will and effort of a man. Salvation, rather than being a free gift, would be God’s response to what a man has done, and so, salvation would be a cooperative effort based on the will of God and the will of man:https://www.godsonlygospel.com/by-grace-alone-13 In 13th para
Totally contrary to scripture
John 3:16
For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.
Eph 2:8–9
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; it is not from works, so that no one can boast.
Rom 10:9–10
that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.
Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”
Mark 16:16
The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
1 Peter 1:3–5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you 5 who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time,
Rom 3:22–24
that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,
Gal 2:16
but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.
John 11:25–26
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die forever. Do you believe this?”
2 Thess 2:13
But we ought to give thanks to God always concerning you, brothers dearly loved by the Lord, because God has chosen you as first fruits for salvation by the sanctification of the Spirit and faith in the truth,
Acts 13:39
by this one everyone who believes is justified!
Rom 4:5
But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness,
1 Cor 15:1–2
Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose.
Eph 1:13–14
in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
2 Tim 3:15
and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
John 20:31
but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Acts 15:11
But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.”
Gal 3:22
But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe.
Acts 13:38–39
“Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!
Acts 10:43
To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”
Acts 26:18
to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
Romans 3:23–25
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,
Rom 5:1
Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
