Do Catholics Pray to Mary?

[DavidTree]

"we don't call each other a liar" on this Forum

We can, however, call a lie = a lie, when God said it it is a lie

But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers,
and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel
of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

"theotokos" is not in Scripture = to make the claim that it is, is a error/falsehood/lie for it is contrary to sound doctrine

'meter' is the word used in Scripture to denote Mary as mother

 

[synergy]

"theotokos" is not in Scripture = to make the claim that it is, is a error/falsehood/lie for it is contrary to sound doctrine

'meter' is the word used in Scripture to denote Mary as mother

Do you believe Jesus is God?
If yes then Mary is the mother of God.

 

[Administrator]

We can, however, call a lie = a lie, when God said it it is a lie

But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers,
and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel
of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

"theotokos" is not in Scripture = to make the claim that it is, is a error/falsehood/lie for it is contrary to sound doctrine

'meter' is the word used in Scripture to denote Mary as mother

Yes This explains it, but any circumventing, like using bible verses to call someone a Liar is not going to fly.

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2a. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.

2b. No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Berean Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. Do not call anyone a heretic, false teacher, a cultist , satanic or any other such term.

 

[JLB]

The Book of Revelation has accounts of saints in heaven who are cognizant of activities here on earth.

If you choose to promote idolatry and sorcery then that’s on you.

 

[synergy]

If you choose to promote idolatry and sorcery then that’s on you.

The Bible is not idoltarous when it comes to intercessory prayer. Here's some of the biblical evidence that is commonly used to support intercessory prayer:

1. Saints Offering Prayers to God (Rev 5:8)

“...the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb... and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”

These verses show heavenly figures as representing the saints in heaven interceding on behalf of those on earth. This shows that there is intercessions by saints in heaven for our prayers.

2. Heavenly Awareness and Concern (Rev 6:9–10)

“They cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood...?’”

The souls of martyrs are aware of what is happening on earth and are calling out to God—this shows the conscious activity and intercession of saints in heaven.

3. The Communion of Saints (Heb 12:1)

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses...”

This “cloud of witnesses” (the faithful who have gone before us) is spiritually present and aware of our journey, suggesting solidarity and support, which underlies the idea of their intercession.

4. Angelic and Human Intercession (Jer 15:1 and Job 33:23–24)

These OT verses show angels or holy persons on earth interceding on behalf of others. So if holy people on earth have that much intercessory capabilities, think about how much more intercessory ability saints in heaven have where they're closer to God as mentioned in my first example.

 

[JLB]

The Bible is not idoltarous when it comes to intercessory prayer.

I never mentioned the Bible as idolatrous.


Those who pray to other people and not God are operating in idolatry.

 

[GodsGrace]

The word "Trinity" is also not found in the Bible. Does that make it "a man-made, man-centered lie"?

Please answer these 2 questions:

Do you believe Isaiah 7:14 speaks of Mary?
Do you believe Jesus is God?

If yes to both then Mary is the God-bearer.

Just reading through.
Stating that Mary is NOT the Mother of God creates many theological difficulties.

Here's what I believe is the problem:
When we say GOD,,,we tend to think of God Father.
God Father cannot have a mother.

But, of course, if Jesus is God,,,and Mary birthed Him,,,
then Mary MUST necessarily be the Mother of God.

Seems simple, but it's much contested by Protestants.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Bible is not idoltarous when it comes to intercessory prayer. Here's some of the biblical evidence that is commonly used to support intercessory prayer:

1. Saints Offering Prayers to God (Rev 5:8)

“...the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb... and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”

These verses show heavenly figures as representing the saints in heaven interceding on behalf of those on earth. This shows that there is intercessions by saints in heaven for our prayers.

2. Heavenly Awareness and Concern (Rev 6:9–10)

“They cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood...?’”

The souls of martyrs are aware of what is happening on earth and are calling out to God—this shows the conscious activity and intercession of saints in heaven.

3. The Communion of Saints (Heb 12:1)

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses...”

This “cloud of witnesses” (the faithful who have gone before us) is spiritually present and aware of our journey, suggesting solidarity and support, which underlies the idea of their intercession.

4. Angelic and Human Intercession (Jer 15:1 and Job 33:23–24)

These OT verses show angels or holy persons on earth interceding on behalf of others. So if holy people on earth have that much intercessory capabilities, think about how much more intercessory ability saints in heaven have where they're closer to God as mentioned in my first example.

You have correctly stated why the CC teaches that we can ask for intercession from saints.

I shudder to think that my husband can see what's going on down here.

Also, I'd like to get an answer on this:
IF saints (everyone in heaven, the Church Triumphant) can hear all our petitions, would this not make them
omni-present? Isn't only God omni-present?

 

[synergy]

You have correctly stated why the CC teaches that we can ask for intercession from saints.

I shudder to think that my husband can see what's going on down here.

Also, I'd like to get an answer on this:
IF saints (everyone in heaven, the Church Triumphant) can hear all our petitions, would this not make them
omni-present? Isn't only God omni-present?

Saints are given gifts of this capability only as far as God determines. Saints are certainly not omnipresent. Sam Shamoun has an excellent YouTube presentation on this. I'll try to send it your way once I get some time to do so.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes This explains it, but any circumventing, like using bible verses to call someone a Liar is not going to fly.

Rules List:

1a. No vulgarity, profanity, name calling, or slang expression(s) that could be interpreted as a suggestion of impropriety or generally regarded as demeaning in nature. (Ephesians 5:3-5) Address members by their screen names and do not mock or make fun of their names.

1b.No abusive, insulting, or derogatory language. (Colossians 3:5, 8)

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender.

1d. No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.

2. No Flaming, Goading, Gaslighting or Harassment.

2a. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.

2b. No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Berean Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. Do not call anyone a heretic, false teacher, a cultist , satanic or any other such term.

This is all acceptable and GOOD but let us understand 1c

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender. = BLUE is GOOD and of GOD

Religious beliefs are not protected for God has concluded that only His Word is Truth and acceptable.

To say, religious beliefs are protected is to agree with Satan = "Did God really say?"

No attacks = GOOD, ACCEPTABLE, PEACEABLE, GODLY

Bringing forth Gospel Truth that can SAVE a soul from religious beliefs that can damn a soul forever.

The Bible is not idoltarous when it comes to intercessory prayer. Here's some of the biblical evidence that is commonly used to support intercessory prayer:

1. Saints Offering Prayers to God (Rev 5:8)

“...the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb... and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.”

These verses show heavenly figures as representing the saints in heaven interceding on behalf of those on earth. This shows that there is intercessions by saints in heaven for our prayers.

2. Heavenly Awareness and Concern (Rev 6:9–10)

“They cried out with a loud voice, ‘O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood...?’”

The souls of martyrs are aware of what is happening on earth and are calling out to God—this shows the conscious activity and intercession of saints in heaven.

3. The Communion of Saints (Heb 12:1)

“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses...”

This “cloud of witnesses” (the faithful who have gone before us) is spiritually present and aware of our journey, suggesting solidarity and support, which underlies the idea of their intercession.

4. Angelic and Human Intercession (Jer 15:1 and Job 33:23–24)

These OT verses show angels or holy persons on earth interceding on behalf of others. So if holy people on earth have that much intercessory capabilities, think about how much more intercessory ability saints in heaven have where they're closer to God as mentioned in my first example.

No one is allowed to pray to deceased saints, relatives or other = SEE King Saul seeking the dead prophet Samuel

We can only ask living/breathing(on this earth) saints to pray with/for us.

Praying to Mary or any of the Apostles is not permitted by God and is an act of unbelief and sin.

Jeremiah 15:1 - Then the LORD said to me: “Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out to this people.
Send them away from my Presence! Let them go!

Surrounded by faithful witness and NEVER once are we to call upon them or pray to them = Hebrews 12:1-2

Hebrews 12:1-2
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us,
and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith,
who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame,
He has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[GodsGrace]

Saints are given gifts of this capability only as far as God determines. Saints are certainly not omnipresent. Sam Shamoun has an excellent YouTube presentation on this. I'll try to send it your way once I get some time to do so.

Sam S has become some kind of Catholic...can't remember which rite.
Please send it along...
He seems to know everything!

 

[DavidTree]

Just reading through.
Stating that Mary is NOT the Mother of God creates many theological difficulties.

Here's what I believe is the problem:
When we say GOD,,,we tend to think of God Father.
God Father cannot have a mother.

But, of course, if Jesus is God,,,and Mary birthed Him,,,
then Mary MUST necessarily be the Mother of God.

Seems simple, but it's much contested by Protestants.

Mary did not birth God
A Body was prepared inside Mary's womb for the Word = John 1:1-18 , Hebrews 10:5 and Luke ch1

Please review Post #201 = the Truth found in the Holy Scriptures and remember = God never lies, you can trust His words.

 

[GodsGrace]

This is all acceptable and GOOD but let us understand 1c

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender. = BLUE is GOOD and of GOD

Religious beliefs are not protected for God has concluded that only His Word is Truth and acceptable.

To say, religious beliefs are protected is to agree with Satan = "Did God really say?"

No attacks = GOOD, ACCEPTABLE, PEACEABLE, GODLY

Bringing forth Gospel Truth that can SAVE a soul from religious beliefs that can damn a soul forever.

No one is allowed to pray to deceased saints, relatives or other.

We can only ask living/breathing(on this earth) saints to pray with/for us.

Praying to Mary or any of the Apostles is not permitted by God and is an act of unbelief and sin.

Jeremiah 15:1 - Then the LORD said to me: “Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out to this people.
Send them away from my Presence! Let them go!

Hebrews 12:1-2 Surrounded by faithful witness and NEVER once are we to call upon them or pray to them.

Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us,
and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith,
who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame,
He has sat down at the right hand of the throne of

This is all acceptable and GOOD but let us understand 1c

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender. = BLUE is GOOD and of GOD

Religious beliefs are not protected for God has concluded that only His Word is Truth and acceptable.

To say, religious beliefs are protected is to agree with Satan = "Did God really say?"

No attacks = GOOD, ACCEPTABLE, PEACEABLE, GODLY

Bringing forth Gospel Truth that can SAVE a soul from religious beliefs that can damn a soul forever.

No one is allowed to pray to deceased saints, relatives or other.

What do you mean by No one is ALLOWED to pray to deceased saints, relatives, or other?
If my church teaches me that I can do this....
then I will do this.
YOU could not agree with it...but you cannot say that I cannot do it.
I'm not Catholic BTW,,,,but if we take THEIR freedom to teach as they will away....
then which denomination will be next?

We can only ask living/breathing(on this earth) saints to pray with/for us.

Praying to Mary or any of the Apostles is not permitted by God and is an act of unbelief and sin.

Jeremiah 15:1 - Then the LORD said to me: “Even if Moses and Samuel were to stand before me, my heart would not go out to this people.
Send them away from my Presence! Let them go!

Hebrews 12:1-2 Surrounded by faithful witness and NEVER once are we to call upon them or pray to them.

Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us,
and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith,
who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame,
He has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Perhaps even YOUR church is getting something wrong!

John 13:35
35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

 

[GodsGrace]

Mary did not birth God
A Body was prepared inside Mary's womb for the Word = John 1:1-18 , Hebrews 10:5 and Luke ch1

Please review Post #201 = the Truth found in the Holy Scriptures and remember = God never lies, you can trust His words.

I'm not reading post 201.
I'm speaking to you right now.

Was Jesus God?
Who was His mother?

 

[DavidTree]

What do you mean by No one is ALLOWED to pray to deceased saints, relatives, or other?
If my church teaches me that I can do this....
then I will do this.
YOU could not agree with it...but you cannot say that I cannot do it.
I'm not Catholic BTW,,,,but if we take THEIR freedom to teach as they will away....
then which denomination will be next?



Perhaps even YOUR church is getting something wrong!

John 13:35
35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

If my church teaches me that I can do this....

Your church is not God
You can do whatever you want to do but there are eternal consequences for disobeying God and praying to idols.

 

[DavidTree]

I'm not reading post 201.
I'm speaking to you right now.

Was Jesus God?
Who was His mother?

Answer in the Holy Word of God and also in Post 201

 

[DavidTree]

I'm not reading post 201.
I'm speaking to you right now.

Was Jesus God?
Who was His mother?

Infallible Truth & Logic & FACT = Holy Scriptures in Post 201

 

[GodsGrace]

Your church is not God
You can do whatever you want to do but there are eternal consequences for disobeying God and praying to idols.

Do you realize how many on these Forums are getting doctrine incorrect?
Do you really think that doctrine is going to save you
or
Do you think that Jesus is going to save you?

Praying to a saint is wrong.
But if I grow up in a place that does this..
or in a denomination that teaches this...
how is God going to hold me responsible for obeying those HE put in charge?

I've said this many times now and I'm tiring of posting it, but here it is.

There are only 2 necessary rules for being saved:

1. Believe in God.
2. Obey God. (by obey, I mean to live your life in a way pleasing to God).

Not everyone has read the bible.
Not everyone can understand it.
Not everyone is theologically inclined.

Are they lost??

 

[GodsGrace]

Infallible Truth & Logic & FACT = Post 201

Your post 201 has heresy in it.

You're stating that Jesus was only a body.
Jesus was a human PERSON.
A PERSON.
Please find out what a person is.

You didn't reply to my questions:

1. Is Jesus God?
2. Who is His mother?
Who birthed Him?
Was He an empty shell?
Who raised Him?
WHAT is a mother?

 

[DavidTree]

What do you mean by No one is ALLOWED to pray to deceased saints, relatives, or other?
If my church teaches me that I can do this....
then I will do this.
YOU could not agree with it...but you cannot say that I cannot do it.
I'm not Catholic BTW,,,,but if we take THEIR freedom to teach as they will away....
then which denomination will be next?



Perhaps even YOUR church is getting something wrong!

John 13:35
35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

John 13:35
35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."
God has given me great love for you = therefore the Holy Spirit is in me to direct you to the Holy Scriptures and Salavtion in Christ and Christ alone.

For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—
I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying - 1 Timothy 2:5