Did God, forsake Jesus on the cross?

[civic]

Synergy, I am sure civic has plenty.


Okay.


You will start to express Gods love by and through the Lord Yeshua, and by God abiding in and through you. I disagree with you about worshiping Jesus as God. That is not true, Jesus never once stated that in his earthly ministry, he said this...



You are misappropiating the positions of the Father, and His Begotten Son, whos is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings. It's Yahavah, whom was the Father of the Lord Yeshua, whom we pray and call out to, in the name of the Lord Yeshua, that is what biblical narrative entails, however you can suggest that I am wrong. I am not against, what you shared which concerns, sanctification in a believers life in which they become more like the Lord Yeshua, because they are allowing Yahavah to work with them by and through the holy spirit of Yahavah which indwells the hearts of those who are adopted into the Kingdom of the Son, translated from the darkness into the light, which starts to fade away slowly over time the one more continues to seek the light which Jesus is the light of all mankind.

Though Yeshua, is on the throne with his Father now, that never gave Yeshua any authority over him, here is why,

Then you disagree with scripture which declares He is the True God.

Scripture declares He is God and I say what scripture declares regarding the Person of Christ.

Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins. Yes, if you don't believe that I AM(YHWH), you will die in your sins."

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am.(YHWH)"

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Romans 9:5
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ who is God over all forever praised! Amen.

Titus 2:13
looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus

1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


Hebrews 1:8
But of the Son He says,
"YOUR THRONE O GOD IS FOREVER AND EVER

Hebrews 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

2 Peter 1:1
Simon Peter a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours

2 Peter 1:11
for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

We have a second person possessive pronoun "Our" modifying two different improper nouns (God and Savior) joined by "and" (Kia) to identify a proper noun (Jesus) [Granville/Sharp's]. Therefore, by basic grammar, we are identifying Jesus as God and Savior. We don't even have to know the Greek to see that Jesus is being called both God and Savior/ Lord and Savior in Peters 2nd Epistle. 2 Peter 2:20 and 2 Peter 3:18 also have the same Greek construction as 1:1 and 1:11.

But for those interested in the Greek here is the comparison of 1:1 and 1:11.

τοῦ is the same.
ἡμῶν is the same.
καὶ is the same.
Σωτῆρος is the same.
Ἰησοῦ is the same.
Χριστοῦ· is the same.

And all in the same order.

The only difference is the noun "Θεοῦ" in v.1, while "Κυρίου" is in v.11.

So if you want to deny that Jesus is "God" ("theou") in v.1, then you have to deny that Jesus is "Lord" ("kuriou") in v.11. Otherwise you are being inconsistent and dishonest with the text. To say otherwise is proof positive one has an agenda when reading scripture and using eisegesis rather than exegesis of the biblical text in question.


1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true even in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

Jesus is eternal life, He is life. We see this over and over again in the Apostle Johns writings. In Him was LIFE and that LIFE was the light of man. Life of the world, the Bread of LIFE,My words are spirit and they are LIFE, I AM the way,the truth and the LIFE,The LIFE was manifested and we proclaim to you the ETERNAL Life which was with the Father, and was manifested to us- The Prologue of 1st John. So we see that when John uses the phrase True God and Eternal Life together in 1 John 5:20 that He is referring to Christ as the closest antecedent making Him the True God and Eternal Life.

Also we see that when we search the NT that Eternal Life is never used of the Father without the Son but we see that Eternal Life is used over and over with Jesus where the Father is never mentioned. This makes a solid case for Jesus in 1 John 5:20 as the True God and Eternal Life.

1 John 5:20
20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true — even in his Son Jesus Christ. He(Jesus) is the true God and eternal life.


On behalf of seeing χριστος as the antecedent are the following arguments: (1) Although it is true that αληθινος θεος is not elsewhere referred to Christ, αληθεια is, and is so in Johannine literature (John 14:6).

29 Winer-Moulton, 195.
Further, αληθινος θεος is not a "constant.. epithet" as Winer supposes, being found only in John 17:3 and 1 John 5:20! (2) Christ is also said to be ζωη in John's writings John 11:25; 14:6; 1 John 1:1-2), an epithet nowhere else used of the Father. (3) The demonstrative pronoun, ουτος, in the Gospel and Epistles of John seems to be used in a theologically rich manner.30 Specifically, of the approximately seventy instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as forty- four of them (almost two-thirds of the instances) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that never is the Father the referent.For what it is worth, this datum increases the probability that ιησου χριστω is the antecedent in 1 John 5:20. 32 The issue cannot be decided on grammar alone. But suffice it to say here that there are no grammatical reasons for denying that αληθινος θεος is descriptive of Jesus Christ.



My top 10 biblical and exegetical reasons Jesus Christ is the True God and Eternal Life.

1st- Jesus is called God in the writings of John(1:1,20:28,1 John 5:20)

2nd- Jesus is called Eternal Life over and over again in Johns writings

3rd- John opens up his epistle with the Eternal life(Jesus) that was with the Father in the beginning and was manifest to the disciples(1 John 1:1-5)

4th- John ends his epistle with Jesus who is eternal life and only is eternal life found in Him who is the true God.

5th- never is eternal life used of the Father alone. When the Father is included the Son is always mentioned together with the Father making them equal. Equality with the Father was not something Jesus needed to grasp at as He already possessed complete Deity as God.(Phil 2, Col 2:9)

6th- John would not leave his readers with any ambiguity warning them to guard themselves from idols(5:21) So this would be clear his reference was to those who reject Jesus as the true God. They are the idoloters and antichrists John writes of in his epistles.

7th- Jesus is also the True God and the True one in 1 John. Jesus is the true light which brings light to all men (John 1:9) Jesus is the truth (John 14:6)Jesus is the true vine (John 15:1). Jesus is the true witness of God (John 18:37) He who is true (Revelation 3:7) Jesus is the faithful and true witness (Revelation 3:14)Jesus is Lord God Almighty, Just and true are your ways(Revelation 15:3) Jesus is faithful and true(Revelation 19:11).

8th- [In John's writings] Of the approximately 70 instances in which ουτος has a personal referent, as many as 44 of them (almost 2/3 . . . ) refer to the Son. Of the remainder, most imply some sort of positive connection with the Son.31 What is most significant is that NEVER is the Father the referent.FWIW, this datum increases the probability that ιησου χριστω IS the antecedent in 1 John 5:20. Wallace.

9th- Netbible- Wallace
If This one in 5:20 is understood as referring to Jesus, it forms an inclusion with the prologue, which introduced the reader to "the eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us." Thus it appears best to understand the pronoun This one in 5:20 as a reference to Jesus Christ. The christological affirmation which results is striking, but certainly not beyond the capabilities of the author (see John 1:1 and 20:28): This One [Jesus Christ] is the true God and eternal life.

10th- This/ He (autos)Jesus Christ (the last-named Person) is the true God


So the most logical conclusion is that it refers to Jesus as the true God. Not only is this Wallace's conclusion from Johns usage of outos but He is the closest antecedent (most times in the NT this principal holds true). Eternal Life is never used of the Father alone in John’s writings and only a couple of times does John include the Father with the Son regarding eternal life. John opens up his epistles describing the "eternal life" who was with the Father in the beginning and then ends his epistle with eternal life identifying Jesus as the true God and eternal life. John then says this in the last verse:

1 John 5:21-Guard yourselves from idols

Now why would he leave any ambiguity in verse 20 as to the identity of the true God and eternal life then turn around commanding them to protect themselves from idolatry? It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless John is identifying Jesus as the true God and refuting the Gnostics of his day who denied the Incarnation.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the GNT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the GNT but always to Jesus.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."


We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty

Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that liveth, was dead, but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."


We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

Conclusion: So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

Would you be shocked to know that Jesus declared himself as the God of the OT? Here is a copy of a post I sent to someone else about that subject:

Question: What is God's name?
Answer: (Exodus 3:14) God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

Question: Where did Jesus declare himself as God?
Answer: (John 8:58) Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!

Conclusion: So Jesus declared himself God by both name and by his eternal existence.

Just because Jesus says I am, does not mean he is "Yahavah."

 

[MatthewG]

@civic. Jesus is not Yahavah. Yahavah is the true God. The one whom Jesus worshipped. Yeshua, was the Word of God, friend. I believe when everything is completed and overcome then the Lord sits with his Father becoming the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. However that does not make Yeshua, the Word of God, "Yahavah" whom is his Father, whom is the God we worship and the God that Israel had worshipped.

You can claim that I do not believe or do not worship in spirit and in truth however you are wrong in your assertions.

 

[MatthewG]

The trinity thing makes it look everyone is co-equal etc.... I dont believe in all that, there is a distinct order being set, when one goes back to genesis and reads it. While the Lord Jesus, and The Father become the Lord God Almighty, Jesus still is not over his Father, and here is why.

If anyone can tell me why Jesus gives everything to the Father, and then is subjected to the Father afterwards, Jesus position is right beneath the Father, with Jesus being in subjection of him...

1Co 15:20 But in reality Christ has been raised from the dead, the first to be raised of those who have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:21 For since it was through a man that death resulted, it was also through a man that the resurrection of the dead resulted.
1Co 15:22 For just as all men die by virtue of their descent from Adam, so all such as are in union with Christ will be made to live again.
1Co 15:23 But each in his proper order; Christ first, then at His coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 After that comes the end, when He will turn the kingdom over to God His Father, when He will put an end to all other government, authority, and power;
1Co 15:25 for He must continue to be king until He puts all His enemies under His feet.
1Co 15:26 Death is the last enemy to be stopped,
1Co 15:27 for He has put everything in subjection under His feet. But when He says that everything has been put in subjection to Him, He Himself is evidently excepted who put it all in subjection to Him.
1Co 15:28 And when everything has been put in subjection to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has put everything in subjection to Him, so that God may be everything to everybody.

The trinity thing got a lot of warped minds I believe concerning the make up of God, God's Word, and God's Spirit or Yahavah, Yahavahs Word, and Yahavahs Holy Spirit.

 

[synergy]

Just because Jesus says I am, does not mean he is "Yahavah."

So you're ok defending Jesus when he says the words of Psalms 22:1 but not when he says he is "I Am"? Got it.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus may have said I am, but that does not make him, personally “Yahavah” you also have to consider that “Yahavah was with the Lord Jesus” in “Christ.” There is a distinction between the Father and the Son. Jesus prayed to Yahavah, that is the one whom is to be worship, and those who seek to worship the Father worship in spirit and in truth. Yahavah desires to find those who do these things and they are rewarded by the Holy Spirit of Yahavah that indwells you, and the Spirit of Christ that indwells you.

You can not tell me Jesus is Yahavah. He is the expression of Yahavah, but you can not tell me that he is Yahavah because he is not. Jesus is the Word of God, whom is the Son of God. Who expressed the inner heart of his Father and gave up his own life willingly for His Father and others.

Can you explain to me, how Jesus is subjected to his Father?

1Co 15:20 But in reality Christ has been raised from the dead, the first to be raised of those who have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:21 For since it was through a man that death resulted, it was also through a man that the resurrection of the dead resulted.
1Co 15:22 For just as all men die by virtue of their descent from Adam, so all such as are in union with Christ will be made to live again.
1Co 15:23 But each in his proper order; Christ first, then at His coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 After that comes the end, when He will turn the kingdom over to God His Father, when He will put an end to all other government, authority, and power;
1Co 15:25 for He must continue to be king until He puts all His enemies under His feet.
1Co 15:26 Death is the last enemy to be stopped,
1Co 15:27 for He has put everything in subjection under His feet. But when He says that everything has been put in subjection to Him, He Himself is evidently excepted who put it all in subjection to Him.
1Co 15:28 And when everything has been put in subjection to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has put everything in subjection to Him, so that God may be everything to everybody.

 

[civic]

So you're ok defending Jesus when he says the words of Psalms 22:1 but not when he says he is "I Am"? Got it.

Irony

 

[synergy]

Irony

Self-serving.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for participating in the topic that we just discussed.

I have already openly admitted, that I do not accept the trinity, as it is a tradition of man. To suggest anyone has to hold that doctrine in order to be made right with Yahavah is not telling truth in which it is faith in the raised Lord Yeshua, which we have peace with Yahavah, because of the holy spirit which he gives to you as a believer.

Rom 5:1 Since we have been given right standing with God through faith, then let us continue enjoying peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 by whom we have an introduction through faith into this state of God's favor, in which we safely stand; and let us continue exulting in the hope of enjoying the glorious presence of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only that, but this too: let us continue exulting in our sufferings, for we know that suffering produces endurance,
Rom 5:4 and endurance, tested character, and tested character, hope,
Rom 5:5 and hope never disappoints us; for through the Holy Spirit that has been given us, God's love has flooded our hearts.
Rom 5:6 For when we were still helpless, Christ at the proper time died for us ungodly men.
Rom 5:7 Now a man will scarcely ever give his life for an upright person, though once in a while a man is brave enough to die for a generous friend.
Rom 5:8 But God proves His love for us by the fact that Christ died for us while we were still sinners.
Rom 5:9 So if we have already been brought into right standing with God by Christ's death, it is much more certain that by Him we shall be saved from God's wrath.

 

[civic]

@civic. Jesus is not Yahavah. Yahavah is the true God. The one whom Jesus worshipped. Yeshua, was the Word of God, friend. I believe when everything is completed and overcome then the Lord sits with his Father becoming the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY. However that does not make Yeshua, the Word of God, "Yahavah" whom is his Father, whom is the God we worship and the God that Israel had worshipped.

You can claim that I do not believe or do not worship in spirit and in truth however you are wrong in your assertions.

You ignored all the passages declaring He is YHWH that I provided from both testaments

 

[MatthewG]

You ignored all the passages declaring He is YHWH that I provided from both testaments

Civic,

What you do not understand is that "Christ in the Lord Jesus" is Yahavah, whom is the Father which Jesus prayed too. Yahavah taught Jesus what to say and what to speak. Jesus did not know all things either, which Yahavah does. Jesus is not Yhwh, as you claim. Yeshua, is the Word of Yhwh, whom was in the beginning with Yhwh, and when Yhwh spoke, the Word of Yhwh came forth and created, in essence being the very literal wind/breathe "Yahavahs Spoken" word, which created light when Yahavah spoke it to be.

Jesus is not YHWH, that is false. Yeshua, and the Lord God, become one as the Lord God Almighty, however Yeshua's position does not overide Yahavah himselfs position.

Again, here is why, which people continue to ignore when it comes to questions, that are hard to answer for people who I guess believe in the trinity entanglement because it is ununderstandable, and when something is ununderstood like that, I rather avoid it all together and try to figure out and find out what does make sense, over common rhetoric, or bible verse scripture posts, that may be in context, or may not be in context which is unfruitful labor because it's not digging and seeking in faith, and trying to find a answer that could be understandable as Yahavah, is not a God of confusion.

I believe that Jesus, was God with us, Emmanuel. I believe that the Father, Yahavah, indwelled his son, and him and his son were in accordance to Yahavahs purpose and will, just as in the beginning being Yahavah, and Yahavahs Word before being sent down, born of flesh. Jesus, by and through his flesh was not God. But Yahavah within him, and his flesh made him the expressed image of Yahavah which is shown from the inward decision and will of the heart to put Yahavah first, and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Again, below, is a question that has continued to go unanswered.

Jesus gives the Kingdom to his Father, and then Jesus is subjected below the Father, even though they are sharing a throne together in the throne room of heaven, known as the Lord God Almighty.

-- TLDR: There are some major issues when it comes to the doctrine of the trinity, as it is ununderstandable; and I rather find something understandable to fall upon, and something that can reliably explained over confusion, however people may or may not read anything which is stated here either way. My hope is Yahavah, give the increase... and that perhaps you will start to incorparte praying the Father in his name, with the name of Jesus at the end, and give all supplications and prayers, thoughts, things which are about the spirit to the FAther in order for him to give you rest, in faith and having peace with Yahavah, by and through his death, burial, and resurrection.

1Co 15:20 But in reality Christ has been raised from the dead, the first to be raised of those who have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:21 For since it was through a man that death resulted, it was also through a man that the resurrection of the dead resulted.
1Co 15:22 For just as all men die by virtue of their descent from Adam, so all such as are in union with Christ will be made to live again.
1Co 15:23 But each in his proper order; Christ first, then at His coming those who belong to Christ.
1Co 15:24 After that comes the end, when He will turn the kingdom over to God His Father, when He will put an end to all other government, authority, and power;
1Co 15:25 for He must continue to be king until He puts all His enemies under His feet.
1Co 15:26 Death is the last enemy to be stopped,
1Co 15:27 for He has put everything in subjection under His feet. But when He says that everything has been put in subjection to Him, He Himself is evidently excepted who put it all in subjection to Him.
1Co 15:28 And when everything has been put in subjection to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has put everything in subjection to Him, so that God may be everything to everybody.

In the end people can believe the doctrine of the trinity - if they want to. While I personally believe it hinders people, in rhetoric to continue to spout what people have said over and over again, without critical thinking, is a unfruitful manner to play in. However, though people get sucked into the tradition of man which has been created a long time ago, are able to become free of the bondage of sin and traditions of man, the more they seek out, and decide to take time and add Yahavah, the Father into their life more, and fellowship with him, and his Son, Yeshua.

 

[MatthewG]

Daniel 9:24-27 Because this prophecy calculates when the Messiah would come, it has been considered "off limits" to Jewish people.
The idea as that if there is a miscalculation and the Messiah does not come, it could cause one's faith to be doubted. Thus the Rabbis
don't teach this text. Yet it includes a clear prediction of when the Messiah would come and what would happen to him.

Daniel is verifying the fulfillment of this prophecy [made by Isaiah who would deliver Isra'el-----Isaiah 44:28-45:4]....He consults the
book of Jeremiah, where he discovers that the exile was to last 70 years (Dan. 9:2).....Now sixty-eight years have elapsed since that
time, yet nothing seems to suggest the end of the exile. The Jewish people still live in Babylonian captivity, and Jerusalem is still
in ruins since 586 B.C.E.

This, of course troubles Dani'el and in anguish he prays to God. The response describes not only how the Messiah will rescue his
people but when. This is the only biblical text that explicitly refers to the coming Messiah while specifying the exact time of his
arrival! Josephus says that Dani'el "was one of the greatest of the prophets....for he did not only prophesy future events.....he also
determined the time of their accomplishment."

Daniel 9 begins and ends with the number seventy in speaking of Daniel's vision of seventy years (Dan. 9:2; 2 Chron. 36:21; Jer 25:11-12),
and in v. 24 with the conclusion of the specified seventy weeks of years (i.e.,seventy; seven-year period or four hundred ninety years).
The first seventy lead to the messiah Cyrus who saves Isra'el from the exile (Isa. 45:1), and the second seventy lead to the Messiah
who saves [Isra'el and] the world from sin" Concerning the ultimate fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy; there will be a period of 7 weeks
of years (49 years) followed by 62 weeks of years or 483 years from the decree until the coming of Messiah the Prince. the seven-week
period (49 years) pertains to the time it actually took from issuing of the decree until the restoration of Jerusalem. The total of 483
years (69 weeks) should be calculated as specific biblical/prophetic years of 360 days each. The starting point of the prophecy would
have begun on Nisan 1 (March 5) 444 B.C.E. followed by 69 weeks of 360 day years or 173,880 days, and culminated on Nisan 10
(March 30) 33 C.E., the date of [Yeshua] the Messiah's triumphal entry (Luke 19:28-40).

The second feature of the prophecy is to predict several events that would follow the 7 weeks and the 69 weeks (totally 69 weeks).
First the Messiah would be cut off, a prediction of death of the Messiah. Thus the book of Daniel, written in the 6th century B.C.E.,
contains predictions not only of the precise date of the Messiah's coming (9:25) but also of Messiah's death sometime before the
destruction of the Temple in 70 C.E.

The basic outline of the chronology is fairly clear, even though there is debate on some of the dates. A specified period of time
elapses from the decree given to restore and rebuild Yerushalayim until the Messiah comes. After his coming and death (v. 26),
the city of Yerushalayim and the Temple will be destroyed. In view of the historical context and date of Dani'el, this is a reference
to the Second Temple. Since Yerushalayim and the Second Temple were destroyed by the Romans in 70 C.E., Dani'el predicts
Messiah's coming and death must occur before 70 C.E.

Now, since the decree mentioned by Dani'el is probably that of Artach'shashta (Artaxerxes) in his seventh year (Ezra 9:9; cf. 7:7),
the chronology can be made more precise. The decree would then have been issued in 458 B.C.E. Verse 25 indicates that
four hundred eighty three years (sixty-nine "weeks") would elapse until Messiah's coming. Adjusting for the "absence" of
the year 0, Messiah's coming is expected in the year 26 C.E. This accords well with Yeshua's death in 30 C.E. after a public
ministry of three-plus years.

Thank you for the information.

 

[civic]

Civic,

What you do not understand is that "Christ in the Lord Jesus" is Yahavah, whom is the Father which Jesus prayed too. Yahavah taught Jesus what to say and what to speak. Jesus did not know all things either, which Yahavah does. Jesus is not Yhwh, as you claim. Yeshua, is the Word of Yhwh, whom was in the beginning with Yhwh, and when Yhwh spoke, the Word of Yhwh came forth and created, in essence being the very literal wind/breathe "Yahavahs Spoken" word, which created light when Yahavah spoke it to be.

Jesus is not YHWH, that is false. Yeshua, and the Lord God, become one as the Lord God Almighty, however Yeshua's position does not overide Yahavah himselfs position.

Again, here is why, which people continue to ignore when it comes to questions, that are hard to answer for people who I guess believe in the trinity entanglement because it is ununderstandable, and when something is ununderstood like that, I rather avoid it all together and try to figure out and find out what does make sense, over common rhetoric, or bible verse scripture posts, that may be in context, or may not be in context which is unfruitful labor because it's not digging and seeking in faith, and trying to find a answer that could be understandable as Yahavah, is not a God of confusion.

I believe that Jesus, was God with us, Emmanuel. I believe that the Father, Yahavah, indwelled his son, and him and his son were in accordance to Yahavahs purpose and will, just as in the beginning being Yahavah, and Yahavahs Word before being sent down, born of flesh. Jesus, by and through his flesh was not God. But Yahavah within him, and his flesh made him the expressed image of Yahavah which is shown from the inward decision and will of the heart to put Yahavah first, and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Again, below, is a question that has continued to go unanswered.

Jesus gives the Kingdom to his Father, and then Jesus is subjected below the Father, even though they are sharing a throne together in the throne room of heaven, known as the Lord God Almighty.

-- TLDR: There are some major issues when it comes to the doctrine of the trinity, as it is ununderstandable; and I rather find something understandable to fall upon, and something that can reliably explained over confusion, however people may or may not read anything which is stated here either way. My hope is Yahavah, give the increase... and that perhaps you will start to incorparte praying the Father in his name, with the name of Jesus at the end, and give all supplications and prayers, thoughts, things which are about the spirit to the FAther in order for him to give you rest, in faith and having peace with Yahavah, by and through his death, burial, and resurrection.




In the end people can believe the doctrine of the trinity - if they want to. While I personally believe it hinders people, in rhetoric to continue to spout what people have said over and over again, without critical thinking, is an unfruitful manner to play in. However, though people get sucked into the tradition of man which has been created a long time ago, are able to become free of the bondage of sin and traditions of man, the more they seek out, and decide to take time and add Yahavah, the Father into their life more, and fellowship with him, and his Son, Yeshua.

He is eternal ie the Creator who made everything in heavens and earth. See Gen 1, John 1 , Hebrews 1 and Colossians 1.

I always provide scripture for my beliefs and plenty of them to substantiate Jesus is God/ YHWH/Creator/ Eternal etc…

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.


Romans 11:33-36
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? 35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.


Acts 17:24-25He is the God who made the world and everything in it. Since He is Lord of heaven and earth, He does not live in man-made temples,
and human hands can not serve His needs--for He has no needs. He Himself gives life and breath to everything, and He satisfies every need there is.

Acts 17:26-27
From one Man He created all the nations throughout the whole earth. He decided beforehand which should rise and fall, and He determined their boundaries. His purpose in all of this was that the nations should seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward Him and find Him--though He is not far from any one of us

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Colossians 1:16-17
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Hebrews 1:10
He also says,

"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.


hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

@civic, Jesus is not YHWH. You can cite as much as you want to. You aren’t apparently understanding or you’re ignoring the information that I have shared with you. You continue to bombard with scripture as though you are proving a fact when you aren’t doing anything but making yourself look like a fool… at least to me… in no way have you allowed me to be right in my assessment or assumptions because you desire for your justification of sharing scripture to stand true when it doesn’t and contrary your own statements.

YHWH allows YHWHs Word to create… yes we see Jesus is the one whom was there creating… of course as the Word of YHWH… before becoming into flesh being born named Jesus.

 

[MatthewG]

People even continue to ignore postulating questions that remain unanswered.

So much for any body here being any authority to set either one us straight! Praise Yahavah it is him who is the Authority, and not just Willy Nillying the scripture haphazardly… may Yahavah help us by Yahavahs spirit, that indwells us.

I’m glad no one is the scripture authority or police… imagine being under that type of bondage with no freedom and liberty in Christ to think for oneself and not go along with the masses cause otherwise your deemed unfit to even be worthy of Jesus…

 

[civic]

@civic, Jesus is not YHWH. You can cite as much as you want to. You aren’t apparently understanding or you’re ignoring the information that I have shared with you. You continue to bombard with scripture as though you are proving a fact when you aren’t doing anything but making yourself look like a fool… at least to me… in no way have you allowed me to be right in my assessment or assumptions because you desire for your justification of sharing scripture to stand true when it doesn’t and contrary your own statements.

YHWH allows YHWHs Word to create… yes we see Jesus is the one whom was there creating… of course as the Word of YHWH… before becoming into flesh being born named Jesus.

I Am is YHWH the Creator who made everything that was made, who is eternal and before all things. Only God/ YHWH is the One described above

 

[MatthewG]

I Am is YHWH the Creator who made everything that was made, who is eternal and before all things. Only God/ YHWH is the One described above

Jesus is not Yhwh, man... He was the Word of God, but he is not above his own Father... Sorry, no matter how you try to explain it to me. Jesus is not Yhwh. You have Jesus say I am many times, but that is "God speaking in and through the Lord Jesus by Christ within him," that does not make Jesus his Father ...

I just outright reject it, because from what Yeshua taught me is to worship the Father, and to worship him in spirit and in truth, not worship Jesus...

@civic you can try to consititue your stand but Jesus is not Yhwh... Sorry man.

 

[civic]

Jesus is not Yhwh, man... He was the Word of God, but he is not above his own Father... Sorry, no matter how you try to explain it to me. Jesus is not Yhwh. You have Jesus say I am many times, but that is "God speaking in and through the Lord Jesus by Christ within him," that does not make Jesus his Father ...

I just outright reject it, because from what Yeshua taught me is to worship the Father, and to worship him in spirit and in truth, not worship Jesus...

@civic you can try to consititue your stand but Jesus is not Yhwh... Sorry man.

So Jesus was possessed by the Christ ?

 

[MatthewG]

So Jesus was possessed by the Christ ?

Im telling you, Jesus is not Yhwh.

 

[civic]

Im telling you, Jesus is not Yhwh.

I’m telling you I’ll bet my salvation on it I’m 100% correct.

Are you that confident ?