praise_yeshua
Active Member
Psa 119:165 Great peace have those who love your law;
If you have peace in the law, then why do you need Christ?
If you have peace in the law, then why do you need Christ?
Did Christ bring peace or did the law bring peace?
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
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That's like asking if you have peace in God's word, then why do you need God's word made flesh? We don't just need instructions for how to have peace, but we also need to embody them.
God's law was given to teach us how to embody aspects of His nature, such as holiness, righteousness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, and so forth. The Son is the personification of these invisible aspects of God's nature in the form of a body that we can see (John 1:14), which he embodied through living in sinless obedience to God's law, and this is how he showed us the Father. In Colossians 1:15, the Son is the image of the invisible God, and in Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of His nature. While it is a gift to have instructions for how to embody God's nature, we also need to gift of the one who is the embodiment of God's nature to show us how us how to embody those instructions (John 1:16-17), which is what Jesus spent his ministry teaching in accordance with being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).
praise_yeshua
Active Member
No.It is not like that.
If you already had peace in the law, why send Christ. You are treating the law and Christ the same when they are not. If you had the law already that gave you peace, then you wouldn't need Christ. You keep refusing to deal with this. You are conflating Christ and the law. Sending Christ indicate a needed change.
God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so I'm not treating the law and Christ the same, but rather I am saying that Christ is the embodiment of God's law, which is evident by the fact that he lived in sinless obedience to it. We don't just need instructions for how to act in accordance with God's nature, but we also need to embody them, which is why we need Christ. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, so He does not change.
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
Chuckle!!! Because as a TRANSGRESSOR of the Law, you DON'T have "peace with it". It condemns you to HELL.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
If what you say is true, then why are you not destined for hell?
Dizerner
Active Member
Abundant peace have those loving Thy law, And they have no stumbling-block. (Ps. 119:165 YLT)
A respect for the Law always does two things:
1. Tutors us for Christ, showing our sinfulness and God's holiness.
2. Brings humility to accept offensive doctrines because we no longer trust ourselves.
Because we see how holy the Law is we recognize our own unholiness.
Then we don't set up our own "law," our own way we want God to atone for us.
Now the abundant peace is through God's vicarious redemption, and we will not be offended at grace.
A respect for the Law always does two things:
1. Tutors us for Christ, showing our sinfulness and God's holiness.
2. Brings humility to accept offensive doctrines because we no longer trust ourselves.
Because we see how holy the Law is we recognize our own unholiness.
Then we don't set up our own "law," our own way we want God to atone for us.
Now the abundant peace is through God's vicarious redemption, and we will not be offended at grace.
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
I was for 20 some odd years. And then I was Born Again, and having DIED to the Law, It couldn't condemn me any longer. It's called "the Gospel".
praise_yeshua
Active Member
1. True Holiness is only revealed by the Spirit of God. Every man does what is right in their own eyes. That includes recrafting the law of God after their own imaginations so as to pretend they can obtain what is necessary solely by keeping what they do not keep. While this should impart a sense of guilt, it often just creates prancing puppets. While the law is called a schoolmaster, no one is listening to the teacher.
2. Not sure if I agree or not.... I would still insist that such knowledge is the job of the Spirit of God. Knowledge of the law does assist but it often does so in a bad way. By the law is the knowledge of sin. That imparts knowledge of possible actions of sin to those who would not consider such otherwise. "Don't do that" often leads to "do that".
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Then the Gospel benefited you.
We need to die to the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of God, not the other way around. While there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ (Romans 8:1), those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so the fact that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ does not remove our obligation to walk in obedience to God's law, but just the opposite. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ because Christ gave himself to pay the penalty for our sin, which should make us want to go and sin no more, not consider ourselves free to do what God has revealed to be sin through His law. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to is a central part of the Gospel that Christ taught, which is the opposite of what you call "the Gospel".
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
SO how are YOU doing with you "Walk of Perfection"??
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
BIG TIME - everything changed, and I was "new". And as frosting on the cake, after burning 3 packs a day for YEARS, I woke up the next morning, and wasn't a smoker any more. No withdrawal, no craving, NOTHING. Just as if i'd never smoked in my life.
(more to that story)
Dizerner
Active Member
I apologize if I gave the impression we don't need the Holy Spirit.
I certainly did not mean to convey that.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Didn't think you did. I've been pointing out the need.of the Spirit contrasted against the supposed need of the law of Moses. The Spirit is not lawless. People believe I'm arguing for lawlessness. I'm not. The law of standards from God are much deeper and profound than any written law can express in the language of men. The Spirit of God works in us beyond the barriers of language and thought. It is an extremely emotional connection to God. Love is an emotion. Love is more than words. Of it is confined to words then we are devaluing Love.
How I am doing is independent of the issue of whether followers of God should follow what God has commanded in accordance with the example that Jesus set for us to follow. However, God's law came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so there has never been a need for us to have perfect obedience, there is nothing that I would earn as a wage if I managed to do that, and there is nothing that I do not earn as a wage if I do not manage to do that. Repentance doesn't change the fact that we have not had perfect obedience, so the fact that repentance has value demonstrate that we don't need to have perfect obedience. Our obedience to God's law is about God giving a gift to us, not about us earning a wage from God.
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
I've never claimed to have perfect obedience, nor is there any particular reason why I would need to have it. That is a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of the law.
Brakelite
Active Member
I find in scripture 3 basic laws that govern life.
Law One: ……….The law of God.
after the inward man”…..(Romans 7:22)
Paul has nothing but love and respect for God’s law. He considers it ‘holy, just and good’. It is Paul’s earnest and deepest desire to honour that law, and to keep all the commandments,
” but I see another law in my members, warring against the law (of God) of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to….” (v23cont.)
Law Two:………..“The law of sin…
…which is in my members."
Paul delights in obedience, but finds that in the carnal nature resides a law which makes it impossible, the law of sin. Paul confesses his wretchedness and guilt....
“Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” he cries.
“I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin.” (vs 25)
But if Paul is bound by the law of sin, despite his best intentions to obey the law of God, how then can he overcome? The answer is just 2 verses later.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For…
Law Three:……….the law of the Spirit of life…
in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” Romans 8:1,2.
Three laws. The law of God which is holy, just, and good.
The law of sin which binds the carnal man making it impossible to obey the law of God.
The law of the Spirit of life which through the grace and power of God makes it possible for the reborn child of God to obey the law of God, if he relies on and walks after the Spirit and not after the flesh.
The law of sin has no power over them who are completely surrendered to Christ. That is why elsewhere Paul can assert that to those who walk in the Spirit they are transformed by the renewing of their minds, and are recreated into the image of the character of Christ. A character that is obedient and a mind (like Christ’s) which delights in the law of God and rejoices that by faith in the power and grace of God he may be obedient to all the commandments.
“For I delight inLaw One: ……….The law of God.
after the inward man”…..(Romans 7:22)
Paul has nothing but love and respect for God’s law. He considers it ‘holy, just and good’. It is Paul’s earnest and deepest desire to honour that law, and to keep all the commandments,
” but I see another law in my members, warring against the law (of God) of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to….” (v23cont.)
Law Two:………..“The law of sin…
…which is in my members."
Paul delights in obedience, but finds that in the carnal nature resides a law which makes it impossible, the law of sin. Paul confesses his wretchedness and guilt....
“Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?” he cries.
“I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh, the law of sin.” (vs 25)
But if Paul is bound by the law of sin, despite his best intentions to obey the law of God, how then can he overcome? The answer is just 2 verses later.
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For…
Law Three:……….the law of the Spirit of life…
in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.” Romans 8:1,2.
Three laws. The law of God which is holy, just, and good.
The law of sin which binds the carnal man making it impossible to obey the law of God.
The law of the Spirit of life which through the grace and power of God makes it possible for the reborn child of God to obey the law of God, if he relies on and walks after the Spirit and not after the flesh.
The law of sin has no power over them who are completely surrendered to Christ. That is why elsewhere Paul can assert that to those who walk in the Spirit they are transformed by the renewing of their minds, and are recreated into the image of the character of Christ. A character that is obedient and a mind (like Christ’s) which delights in the law of God and rejoices that by faith in the power and grace of God he may be obedient to all the commandments.
