Determinism in Calvinism and the Reformed Confessions

[civic]

If God actually brings everything to pass by determining all things then we must conclude the following about the doctrine.

1- God has determined that I post this thread there could be no other result since it was predestined, determined, caused to happen in eternity past
2- God wants me to oppose calvinism it since He decreed it to happen
3- God intentionally causes division within the church in that I oppose calvinism
4- God determined that I leave calvinism after believing it for over 40 years
5- God desires and directs me to post daily he things that are unbiblical about calvinism and bright them to light
6- God has determined beforehand that all the calvinists and non calvinists read my posts
7- God wants the calvinists to leave calvinism just like I did since it was His will for me to leave calvinism
8- God has a purpose why He is leaving you in calvinism
9- God has a purpose why I left calvinism
10- Gods will is that you believe calvinism and I reject it.
11- God is not the God of Confusion as clearly stated in the Bible
12- Gods determinism in Calvinism as shown above cannot be true in any way, shape or form.
13- The WCF and other confessions are nothing but doubletalk as demonstrated above.

@Presby02 @The Rogue Tomato @atpollard @makesends

Lets discuss.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Any thoughts from the Calvinists ?

 

[TomL]

If God actually brings everything to pass by determining all things then we must conclude the following about the doctrine.

1- God has determined that I post this thread there could be no other result since it was predestined, determined, caused to happen in eternity past
2- God wants me to oppose calvinism it since He decreed it to happen
3- God intentionally causes division within the church in that I oppose calvinism
4- God determined that I leave calvinism after believing it for over 40 years
5- God desires and directs me to post daily he things that are unbiblical about calvinism and bright them to light
6- God has determined beforehand that all the calvinists and non calvinists read my posts
7- God wants the calvinists to leave calvinism just like I did since it was His will for me to leave calvinism
8- God has a purpose why He is leaving you in calvinism
9- God has a purpose why I left calvinism
10- Gods will is that you believe calvinism and I reject it.
11- God is not the God of Confusion as clearly stated in the Bible
12- Gods determinism in Calvinism as shown above cannot be true in any way, shape or form.
13- The WCF and other confessions are nothing but doubletalk as demonstrated above.

@Presby02 @The Rogue Tomato @atpollard @makesends

Lets discuss.

hope this helps !!!

God determined they should not answer

 

[civic]

God determined they should not answer

Yep

 

[praise_yeshua]

God determined they should not answer

Or God already knows everything everyone has done and took action where He determined to take action.

I'm going to say this and move on......I don't see much of a practical difference.

The Arminian position is different but not in a many meaningful ways. I mean you don't believe sin is past with God. You believe that God intimately knows our sins.

You would think if that were true, more of you would actually feel very guilty. Maybe guilty enough to confess some sins to others.

Eventually, I always grow tired of all these circular self serving arguments that come from everywhere.

For me, it is "none of the above".

Everything has a "sliver" of truth to it. Just enough to "sell" it to those who prefer to rely upon others for their doctrine. Faith always starts with another but it must become our own. It has little value unless it becomes our own.

 

[TomL]

Or God already knows everything everyone has done and took action where He determined to take action.

I'm going to say this and move on......I don't see much of a practical difference.

The Arminian position is different but not in a many meaningful ways. I mean you don't believe sin is past with God. You believe that God intimately knows our sins.

You would think if that were true, more of you would actually feel very guilty. Maybe guilty enough to confess some sins to others.

Eventually, I always grow tired of all these circular self serving arguments that come from everywhere.

For me, it is "none of the above".

Everything has a "sliver" of truth to it. Just enough to "sell" it to those who prefer to rely upon others for their doctrine. Faith always starts with another but it must become our own. It has little value unless it becomes our own.

Um I am not an Arminian, but I see significant differences between the Arminian and Calvinist positions

 

[TomL]

Yep

 

[Rockson]

10- Gods will is that you believe calvinism and I reject it.

Yeah guess that would mean God doesn't want one of his children to be blessed with sound knowledge. To one he would teach them to believe that 2+2 =4. To another he's delighted to have them believe 2+2 = 6. And that's what a Father would do to his children?

 

[TomL]

Yeah guess that would mean God doesn't want one of his children to be blessed with sound knowledge. To one he would teach them to believe that 2+2 =4. To another he's delighted to have them believe 2+2 = 6. And that's what a Father would do to his children?

In Calvinism God works to deceive. That makes him a deity of deception

 

[civic]

Yeah guess that would mean God doesn't want one of his children to be blessed with sound knowledge. To one he would teach them to believe that 2+2 =4. To another he's delighted to have them believe 2+2 = 6. And that's what a Father would do to his children?

thats the only conclusion possible in that theological system since their god has determined everything that comes to pass including every movement of every molecule he controls and causes to move exactly where he desires and prepared beforehand/ordained that it should.

 

[Rockson]

In Calvinism God works to deceive. That makes him a deity of deception

If one were to ask Calvinists what they think of non Calvinists many of them would claim they have embraced a selfish man centered philosophy. And yet their false doctrine teaches that God ordained that even most of his own children, saved individuals to be against the truth. Where do we read in scripture that God wants some or really most of his own children to have a mental state of error? If God ordained everything wanting them all of their lives to be selfish? If one wants selfishness that in and of itself is wanting something that out of LOVE. Good news that's not the God of the Bible.

No human parent would show such a blatant disrespect for their children and Jesus even said If you then being evil who don't walk in the perfection of LOVE like God. and you'd do good things for your children HOW MUCH MORE will your heavenly Father show LOVE to his children.....Calvinists paint a picture of MAN as being really more LOVING then God and such is why it should be cut off and rejected by those who have been deceived by it. I trust and hope they will.

 

[Rockson]

thats the only conclusion possible in that theological system since their god has determined everything that comes to pass including every movement of every molecule he controls and causes to move exactly where he desires and prepared beforehand/ordained that it should.

Yup. God wants most of his children to be deceived. That's where the ordaining all actions doctrine has taken them.

 

[civic]

If one were to ask Calvinists what they think of non Calvinists many of them would claim they have embraced a selfish man centered philosophy. And yet their false doctrine teaches that God ordained that even most of his own children, saved individuals to be against the truth. Where do we read in scripture that God wants some or really most of his own children to have a mental state of error? If God ordained everything wanting them all of their lives to be selfish? If one wants selfishness that in and of itself is wanting something that out of LOVE. Good news that's not the God of the Bible.

No human parent would show such a blatant disrespect for their children and Jesus even said If you then being evil who don't walk in the perfection of LOVE like God. and you'd do good things for your children HOW MUCH MORE will your heavenly Father show LOVE to his children.....Calvinists paint a picture of MAN as being really more LOVING then God and such is why it should be cut off and rejected by those who have been deceived by it. I trust and hope they will.

Well said

 

[praise_yeshua]

Um I am not an Arminian, but I see significant differences between the Arminian and Calvinist positions

Yes you are. Straight right down the middle Arminan self righteous nonsense.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If one were to ask Calvinists what they think of non Calvinists many of them would claim they have embraced a selfish man centered philosophy. And yet their false doctrine teaches that God ordained that even most of his own children, saved individuals to be against the truth. Where do we read in scripture that God wants some or really most of his own children to have a mental state of error? If God ordained everything wanting them all of their lives to be selfish? If one wants selfishness that in and of itself is wanting something that out of LOVE. Good news that's not the God of the Bible.

No human parent would show such a blatant disrespect for their children and Jesus even said If you then being evil who don't walk in the perfection of LOVE like God. and you'd do good things for your children HOW MUCH MORE will your heavenly Father show LOVE to his children.....Calvinists paint a picture of MAN as being really more LOVING then God and such is why it should be cut off and rejected by those who have been deceived by it. I trust and hope they will.

Does a loving God forget our sin?

In comparison to Determinism, the idea that everything everything has already happened and "written" in the name of omniscience is basically the same result. A stationary immovable construct that has no eternal unending meaning to us and God.

 

[TomL]

Yes you are. Straight right down the middle Arminan self righteous nonsense.

You really do not know what you are talking about. I am considered a provisionist

 

[TomL]

If one were to ask Calvinists what they think of non Calvinists many of them would claim they have embraced a selfish man centered philosophy. And yet their false doctrine teaches that God ordained that even most of his own children, saved individuals to be against the truth. Where do we read in scripture that God wants some or really most of his own children to have a mental state of error? If God ordained everything wanting them all of their lives to be selfish? If one wants selfishness that in and of itself is wanting something that out of LOVE. Good news that's not the God of the Bible.

No human parent would show such a blatant disrespect for their children and Jesus even said If you then being evil who don't walk in the perfection of LOVE like God. and you'd do good things for your children HOW MUCH MORE will your heavenly Father show LOVE to his children.....Calvinists paint a picture of MAN as being really more LOVING then God and such is why it should be cut off and rejected by those who have been deceived by it. I trust and hope they will.

Yes it makes no sense at all and paints a poor picture of God

 

[atpollard]

If God actually brings everything to pass by determining all things

1 Corinthians12:6 [NASB] There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all [persons.]

Ephesians 1:11-12 [NASB] In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in the Christ would be to the praise of His glory.

You say “IF God actually brings everything to pass …” as though you deny the scripture that clearly claims God works ALL THINGS according to His plan/will.
Do you deny that God works ALL THINGS?

 

[TomL]

1 Corinthians12:6 [NASB] There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all [persons.]

Ephesians 1:11-12 [NASB] In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in the Christ would be to the praise of His glory.

You say “IF God actually brings everything to pass …” as though you deny the scripture that clearly claims God works ALL THINGS according to His plan/will.
Do you deny that God works ALL THINGS?

What makes

1 Corinthians12:6 [NASB] There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all [persons.]

Ephesians 1:11-12 [NASB] In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in the Christ would be to the praise of His glory.

You say “IF God actually brings everything to pass …” as though you deny the scripture that clearly claims God works ALL THINGS according to His plan/will.
Do you deny that God works ALL THINGS?

What makes think works = determines?

 

[Presby02]

If God actually brings everything to pass by determining all things then we must conclude the following about the doctrine.

1- God has determined that I post this thread there could be no other result since it was predestined, determined, caused to happen in eternity past
2- God wants me to oppose calvinism it since He decreed it to happen
3- God intentionally causes division within the church in that I oppose calvinism
4- God determined that I leave calvinism after believing it for over 40 years
5- God desires and directs me to post daily he things that are unbiblical about calvinism and bright them to light
6- God has determined beforehand that all the calvinists and non calvinists read my posts
7- God wants the calvinists to leave calvinism just like I did since it was His will for me to leave calvinism
8- God has a purpose why He is leaving you in calvinism
9- God has a purpose why I left calvinism
10- Gods will is that you believe calvinism and I reject it.
11- God is not the God of Confusion as clearly stated in the Bible
12- Gods determinism in Calvinism as shown above cannot be true in any way, shape or form.
13- The WCF and other confessions are nothing but doubletalk as demonstrated above.

@Presby02 @The Rogue Tomato @atpollard @makesends

Lets discuss.

hope this helps !!!

I love it how you say if determinism were true then God determined this and that. My answer would be yup. Hence the word determinism. LOL