This is an extremely important topic. There are several more Biblical verses, that talk about God knowing us, that need to be taken into consideration. I'll push them forward first chance I get.
Depart From Me, I Never Knew You
- Thread starter Johann
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Complete
Well-known member
Subject Heading:- 'Depart From Me, I Never Knew You.'
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord,
Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.'
(Mat 7:21-23)
Hello @Johann,
You used the latter part of Matthew 7:23 as your subject heading, 'I never knew you: depart from me'. You may not have intended for these words to figure largely in what followed in your OP, but it is worth taking note of it's context: For it is clear that those to whom the Lord spoke these words were not doing the will of The Father. The will of Father being, that they believe on Him Whom He had sent.
* If that belief in the Lord Jesus Christ is there in the human heart, then those words, 'I never knew you: depart from me', will never be spoken to them. See John 20:31:-
'... ... But these are written, that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His name.'
(Joh 20:31)
In Christ Jesus
Chris
'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord,
Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?
and in thy name have cast out devils?
and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.'
(Mat 7:21-23)
Hello @Johann,
You used the latter part of Matthew 7:23 as your subject heading, 'I never knew you: depart from me'. You may not have intended for these words to figure largely in what followed in your OP, but it is worth taking note of it's context: For it is clear that those to whom the Lord spoke these words were not doing the will of The Father. The will of Father being, that they believe on Him Whom He had sent.
* If that belief in the Lord Jesus Christ is there in the human heart, then those words, 'I never knew you: depart from me', will never be spoken to them. See John 20:31:-
'... ... But these are written, that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His name.'
(Joh 20:31)
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Let's take the word "known" (Koine Greek: γινώσκω). When does the Bible say that we are "known" by God? It's when we turned away from our former ways and are now known by God (See Gal 4:8-9).
Gal 4:8 But then, indeed, not knowing God, you served as slaves to those not by nature being gods.
Gal 4:9 But now, knowing God, but rather are known by God, how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements to which you again desire to slave anew?
Wait a minute. Isn't God omniscient? How are we only now known by God and not before? Actually God is omniscient but it's only in Christ that we are relationally known (γινώσκω) by God. γινώσκω is a bidirectional two-way relational way of knowing. For example, we are all familiar with the fact that Christ knows (γινώσκω) His sheep and we (His sheep) follow Him.
John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know (γινώσκω) them, and they follow Me.
John 10:28 And I give to them eternal life, and they shall never ever perish, and not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand.
This all means that His sheep are already in a deep relationship with Him. They are already "in Christ" because they already believe "in Christ". In other words, they are not an arbitrary set of elected individuals "before time began" independent of whether or not they believe "in Christ". They are believers positioned "in Christ" by virtue of their current belief "in Christ".
It's only "in Christ" that we are now known by Christ as His sheep. There is no such thing as an unconditional election to salvation and 2 Th 2:13 proves it.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The fact that people die in their sins and are lost forever in Hell, is evidence that God never knew them, and, therefore, never loved them.
Johann
Well-known member
To add-if I may.
. The Personal Knowledge of Christ (γινώσκω - ginōskō)
In John 10:27, the Greek word "γινώσκω" (ginōskō) is used for "know," which implies more than mere factual awareness; it conveys intimate, relational knowledge. This is the same word used to describe close, experiential knowledge, such as when Jesus says, "I never knew you" (Matthew 7:23) to those who profess without genuine belief. In John 10, Christ’s knowing His sheep signifies an active, ongoing relationship with those who trust Him—a knowledge rooted in the mutual response between the Shepherd and His sheep.
2. Eternal Life as a Present Gift and Ongoing State (John 10:28)
Jesus states, "I give them eternal life," which suggests a present and continuous state for believers, not a future condition waiting for them irrespective of their belief. Eternal life, therefore, is granted to those who respond to Christ's voice (faith) and follow Him. This eternal life is safeguarded by Christ's power, not by a predetermined, abstract election. It is inseparable from their faith, not apart from it.
3. “In Christ” as the Defining Position for Believers
The concept of being “in Christ” permeates Paul’s letters, underscoring that one’s spiritual position is always described in relational terms with Christ. For example, 2 Corinthians 5:17 says, "If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation." Here, the phrase "in Christ" consistently indicates those who actively trust in Him, not a predetermined group without regard to faith.
Similarly, Ephesians 1:13 describes believers as being “sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” after they “believe[d].” This sealing is a response to their faith, marking them as belonging to God. It doesn’t imply a separate, unconditional election but rather that God marks believers once they are united with Christ by faith.
4. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 as Conditional on Faith
2 Thessalonians 2:13 states, “God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.” Here, election is described not in isolation but as directly connected to “belief in the truth.” The Greek phrasing points to a process—salvation is "through sanctification" and "through belief" (en pistei), showing that God’s choice operates alongside the person’s faith response.
This shows that faith is the condition through which one is brought into this chosen status, refuting the idea that individuals are arbitrarily selected apart from faith in Christ.
5. No Unconditional Election Apart from Faith
Scripture repeatedly emphasizes faith as the response to God's call. For example, Romans 10:9-10 explains that salvation comes through confessing and believing, highlighting that the relationship is conditional on one’s active faith in Christ.
Passages like Ephesians 2:8-9 speak of salvation as a gift received “through faith,” underscoring that the relational position of being “in Christ” arises from faith and trust, not from an unconditional, predetermined selection.
6. Security Based on Relationship, Not Arbitrary Selection
John 10:28 assures that “no one can snatch” the sheep from Christ’s hand, underscoring that the security of believers rests in the strength and faithfulness of the Shepherd. However, this promise is specifically applied to "His sheep"—those who hear, follow, and are known by Him. The security is relational and covenantal, grounded in their ongoing union with Him by faith, not in a detached election.
J.
