brightfame52
Active Member
There are things in the bible you cant see.I speak what’s in the Bible not hearsay.
Defending Universal Reconciliation
- Thread starter praise_yeshua
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civic
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
You prove my point, you dont see Tulip Truths as the Gospel of Gods Grace, when they are.Like the invisible tulip
brightfame52
Active Member
I never said God is hate, but that He hates some people like Esau Rom 9:13
13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Like the workers of Iniquity Ps 5:5
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
civic
Active Member
You said the non elect God hates and God hates sinners
brightfame52
Active Member
Yeah, obviously, God doesnt hate the wicked and sinful elect, He Loved them as sinners Rom 5:8
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
civic
Active Member
Thats not what the passage says you made that up. There is nothing about the elect in that passage. That is your eisegesis and calvinist lens you are reading the passage through. That is adding to scripture. A big no no.
There is no such things as an elect and non elect sinner- ALL are under sin and condemnation prior to being saved by faith in the gospel. Pauls argument in Romans is all are under Gods condemnation, wrath, judgement because of sin. Ephesians 2 says all believers were once children of wrath just like the rest of the unbelieving world ruled by satan.
hope this helps !!!
Diserner
Active Member
Hate the sin and love the sinner, God is no respecter of persons, thus God always hates and loves sinners simultaneously.
We see in Scripture that God has the attribute of "perfect," which means that every attribute is not only good, but maximally good.
I recommend studying maximal God theism, this is a very Biblical concept.
Thus God would not be partially good or loving towards some of his creation.
We see in Scripture that God has the attribute of "perfect," which means that every attribute is not only good, but maximally good.
I recommend studying maximal God theism, this is a very Biblical concept.
Thus God would not be partially good or loving towards some of his creation.
civic
Active Member
Not true. God demonstrates His love ( not hate ) for us that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. He loves sinners and died for them. He didn't die for those He hates but gave His life because He loves sinners. God so loved the world ( all sinners ) that He gave His only Son.
hope this helps !!!
Diserner
Active Member
God clearly says he hates the wicked in Scripture, it's why Jesus has to come at all.
You can both hate and love someone in different ways, it's not a logical problem.
civic
Active Member
So in your theology God is hate is equally true as God is Love ? is that correct ?
Is hate an attribute of God ?
brightfame52
Active Member
Thats what it says to me, I cant speak for you. Its crystal clear to me, their are some wicked sinners God hates Ps 5:5 and another separate group of wicked sinners He loved and gave Christ to die for them Rom 5:8
Diserner
Active Member
Yes, absolutely, hatred for sin is a fundamental attribute of God, that's why hell exists.
This does not logically mean is God sitting around steaming mad for all eternity punching the walls, this is a mere caricature.
Hell is not just "getting what the sinner wants" to be separated from God in some kind of mopey depression-like state.
Hell is the active wrath of God against those who are in rebellion to him.
One might think, "Well, that makes God a monster and mean," but see, this is our sinful heart deluding us about the holiness of God.
I urge a meditation and prayer upon such simple Scriptures as these to open up our eyes to an aspect of God that will put real and holy fear into our souls, the kind of fear God says we deeply need to know and respect him properly:
15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. (Rev. 19:15 NKJ)
2 God is jealous, and the LORD avenges; The LORD avenges and is furious. The LORD will take vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies;
3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, And will not at all acquit the wicked. The LORD has His way In the whirlwind and in the storm, And the clouds are the dust of His feet.
4 He rebukes the sea and makes it dry, And dries up all the rivers. Bashan and Carmel wither, And the flower of Lebanon wilts.
5 The mountains quake before Him, The hills melt, And the earth heaves at His presence, Yes, the world and all who dwell in it.
6 Who can stand before His indignation? And who can endure the fierceness of His anger? His fury is poured out like fire, And the rocks are thrown down by Him. (Nah. 1:1-6 NKJ)
civic
Active Member
1 John 2:2 says He propitiated/made atonement for the sins of all the world not just believers.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
This is where you misunderstand Gods innate attributes. Love is innate, hate/wrath is not.
hope this helps !!!
Diserner
Active Member
It's just not what the Scripture says.
It's soulish emotion-driven idolatrous love that devalues the holiness of God.
civic
Active Member
There was no hate/wrath in the Godhead before creation for sin did not exist. God is love within His Triune being. God is not wrath/hate within His being as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Those are the result of sin and the fall and did not exist prior. You see Theology begins with a proper understanding of who God is apart from creation. Once you understand that as your starting point you can understand His attributes in relation to creation.
Sovereignty is an attribute that by necessity needs something to rule over. No creation, no rule.
No sin = no wrath, justice, hate etc.......
Theology 101.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Active Member
God is holy is innate like love.
you are equivocating again. I have no contradictions in my theology with Love and Holy- its who God is apart from His creation. Innate attributes.
Holy has nothing to do with sin. God is Holy prior to any evil or sin existing. Its who God is.
You are making my case for me my friend.
TibiasDad
Active Member
It shows only that God’s choices are sovereign over man’s, that human plans cannot usurp God’s desires to do something otherwise.
Jacob and Esau are the prime example of God’s choices overriding the primogeniture culture of expectations of man.
Likewise, God chose to open his arms to the Gentiles and allow Israel to become jealous. Thus, to Israel’s thinking, God should love them exclusively, discriminately, but God says “I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy and harden (as he is doing to Israel) whom I will harden”! God has not discriminated against Israel in this hardening, but has rather sent the light to the Gentiles to not only give all men hope, but to bring Israel back and restore her.
Doug
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