Customized Religion

[Truther]

In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of life with the law of sin and death, so he equated the Law of God with the Law of the Spirit, which straightforwardly makes sense because the Spirit is God. The Law of Moses was given by God (Deuteronomy 5:31-33), so it is the Law of God and it was referred to as being the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23. In other words, the Law of Moses is the Law of the Spirit of Life.


In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law brings us to Christ because it teaches us how to know him, but does not lead us to Christ so that we can then reject what he taught and go back to living in sin. Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster.

In Galatians 3:16-19, a newer covenant does not nullify the promise of an older covenant that has already been ratified, so the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey God's law. Likewise, in Galatians 3:25-29, every aspect of being children of God, in Christ, through faith, being children of Abraham, and heirs of the promise is all directly connected to living in obedience to God's law. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, in Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same words as him, and the works that they should be doing were in obedience to God's law.


Indeed, in Genesis 18:19, it says that God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that he has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His statutes, His commandments, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham love the Lord their God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them non the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and his household to do that, and because they did that in obedience to the Law of Moses.

Here is the Law of Moses per the NT teachings...

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones,...


The OT Law including the 10 commandments was a "death ministry".

We include the death ministry in the NT church, we get death in return.

These commandments prosecute us before God.

They are not our friends.

They will sentence us to hell to be judged according to our works per Rev 20.

Our only escape is to be baptized in the name of Jesus for the REMISSION of OUR SINS, receive the Holy Ghost and walk in the Spirit per Gal 5 to get out and remain out from under the Law.

 

[Soyeong]

Here is the Law of Moses per the NT teachings...

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Your post neglected to interact with what I said. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves following the Mosaic Law, in Ezekiel 36:25-27, the New Covenant involves the Spirit leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, and I listed some of many verses that support that obedience to the Mosaic Law brings like, so 2 Corinthians 3:6 needs to be interpreted in a manner that is in agreement with these other verses rather than a way that is contrary to them. If obeying the letter refers to correctly following what God has instructed, then God is leading us to death and shouldn't be trusted, but rather God leads us to life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones,...


The OT Law including the 10 commandments was a "death ministry".

We include the death ministry in the NT church, we get death in return.

These commandments prosecute us before God.

They are not our friends.

They will sentence us to hell to be judged according to our works per Rev 20.

Our only escape is to be baptized in the name of Jesus for the REMISSION of OUR SINS, receive the Holy Ghost and walk in the Spirit per Gal 5 to get out and remain out from under the Law.

In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey and obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it is a ministry of life for those who choose to obey it and the fact that it is a ministry of death for those who refuse to submit to it is not a very good reason for you to refuse to submit to it.

In Deuteronomy 6:24 and 10:12-13, it says that God's law was given for our own good, so God knows how to give good gifts to His children. There are also many verses like Psalms 119:1-3 that repeatedly say that obedience to God's law is the way to be blessed.

In Revelation 22:14, obedience to God's commandments is the only way to eat from the Tree of Life.

In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law, and in Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it.

The Mosaic Law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to have faith in God's word made flesh while refusing to have faith in God's word.

 

[Truther]

Your post neglected to interact with what I said. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves following the Mosaic Law, in Ezekiel 36:25-27, the New Covenant involves the Spirit leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, and I listed some of many verses that support that obedience to the Mosaic Law brings like, so 2 Corinthians 3:6 needs to be interpreted in a manner that is in agreement with these other verses rather than a way that is contrary to them. If obeying the letter refers to correctly following what God has instructed, then God is leading us to death and shouldn't be trusted, but rather God leads us to life.


In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey and obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So it is a ministry of life for those who choose to obey it and the fact that it is a ministry of death for those who refuse to submit to it is not a very good reason for you to refuse to submit to it.

In Deuteronomy 6:24 and 10:12-13, it says that God's law was given for our own good, so God knows how to give good gifts to His children. There are also many verses like Psalms 119:1-3 that repeatedly say that obedience to God's law is the way to be blessed.

In Revelation 22:14, obedience to God's commandments is the only way to eat from the Tree of Life.

In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law, and in Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature that are in accordance with it.

The Mosaic Law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to have faith in God's word made flesh while refusing to have faith in God's word.

No, the New Covenant is not the Mosaic Law....


11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Choose between Moses or Jesus.

It's that simple.

You can't choose both.

 

[Soyeong]

No, the New Covenant is not the Mosaic Law....


11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Choose between Moses or Jesus.

It's that simple.

You can't choose both.

Again Jeremiah 31:33 states that the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. The same God who gave the law to Moses also sent Jesus to show us how to obey it, so God is not divided against Himself and there is no conflict that we need to choose between.

We are still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same instructions for how to testify about His nature. For examples, the way to testify about God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on a particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to testify about His righteousness are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under. If the way to testify about God's righteousness were to change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, but it and all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:142, 160), so Hebrews 7:12 could not be referring to a change of the law in regard to its content, such as as with it becoming righteous to commit adultery or sinful to help the poor, but rather in context it is speaking about a change of the priesthood, which would also require there to be a change of the law in regard to it administration.

 

[Truther]

Again Jeremiah 31:33 states that the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. The same God who gave the law to Moses also sent Jesus to show us how to obey it, so God is not divided against Himself and there is no conflict that we need to choose between.

We are still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same instructions for how to testify about His nature. For examples, the way to testify about God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on a particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to testify about His righteousness are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under. If the way to testify about God's righteousness were to change, then God's righteousness would not be eternal, but it and all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:142, 160), so Hebrews 7:12 could not be referring to a change of the law in regard to its content, such as as with it becoming righteous to commit adultery or sinful to help the poor, but rather in context it is speaking about a change of the priesthood, which would also require there to be a change of the law in regard to it administration.

No, the Jer 31 promise is for future national Israel at the return of Christ.

This is for future Israel and Judah.

Not the church.

That is replacement theology to think we are "Israel and Judah".

 

[Soyeong]

No, the Jer 31 promise is for future national Israel at the return of Christ.

This is for future Israel and Judah.

Not the church.

That is replacement theology to think we are "Israel and Judah".

Jeremiah 31:33 is about the New Covenant and involves obeying the Mosaic Law. The Greek word "ekklesia" is translated as "church" and is used many times in the Septuagint to refer to Israel in the wilderness, so Israel is the church and it is not replacement theology to think that we can become joined to Israel through faith in Christ.

In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that went up out of Egypt with the Israelites, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai. In Joshua 8:33, Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born. In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel, strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world, but through faith in Christ all of that is no longer true insofar as Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens, but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God. In Romans 9:6-8, Israel is composed of those who have faith in the promise. In Acts 15:16-18, they saw the inclusion of Gentiles to Israel as being in fulfillment of the prophecy of the restoration of David's fallen tents, not as being a brand new entity that was distinct from Israel. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included as part of God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are terms uses to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have to delight of getting to follow God's instructions for how to fulfill those roles.

 

[Studyman]

No. I learned from the Scriptures. That is what we are debating. You're trying to "poison the well". You need to stop this. This not part of an ethical debate tactic.

Then please show me the God inspired scriptures which teach that God Laws, Statues and Commandments are incomplete and inadequate.

Surely it is ethical when debating Scripture to ask that men provide something as proof to support of an accusation again God who inspired the Scriptures.

 

[Truther]

Jeremiah 31:33 is about the New Covenant and involves obeying the Mosaic Law. The Greek word "ekklesia" is translated as "church" and is used many times in the Septuagint to refer to Israel in the wilderness, so Israel is the church and it is not replacement theology to think that we can become joined to Israel through faith in Christ.

In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that went up out of Egypt with the Israelites, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai. In Joshua 8:33, Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born. In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel, strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world, but through faith in Christ all of that is no longer true insofar as Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens, but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God. In Romans 9:6-8, Israel is composed of those who have faith in the promise. In Acts 15:16-18, they saw the inclusion of Gentiles to Israel as being in fulfillment of the prophecy of the restoration of David's fallen tents, not as being a brand new entity that was distinct from Israel. In 1 Peter 2:9-10, Gentiles are included as part of God's chosen people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood, and a treasure of God's own possession, which are terms uses to describe Israel (Deuteronomy 7:6), so Gentiles also have to delight of getting to follow God's instructions for how to fulfill those roles.

At the return of Christ, Jer 31 will be fully instituted.

A new name will be picked as the ceremonial tribe to offer sacrifices once more. The Aaronic(Mosaic) priesthood will be abolished as it is already replaced by the Melchisedek priesthood now. Zadok(descendants) will be the priesthood in the Millennial reign.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Then please show me the God inspired scriptures which teach that God Laws, Statues and Commandments are incomplete and inadequate.

Surely it is ethical when debating Scripture to ask that men provide something as proof to support of an accusation again God who inspired the Scriptures.

I did. You're ignoring what I wrote. Here. I'll post evidence from my last post to you again.

"1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

It is only the "mind of Christ" that adequately imparts the knowledge of God to us. Not the law."

Why are you ignoring this and insisting that I didn't provide Scripture?

Does the law impart the knowledge contained within the "mind of Christ"? The mind of Christ actually contains every word that precedes out of the mouth of God. Every word. The law doesn't have that. Never has.

 

[Studyman]

I did. You're ignoring what I wrote. Here. I'll post evidence from my last post to you again.

"1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

It is only the "mind of Christ" that adequately imparts the knowledge of God to us. Not the law."

Why are you ignoring this and insisting that I didn't provide Scripture?

I can assure you that the Christ "of the Bible" doesn't Judge God or His Laws as "incomplete and inadequate" as you and "many" who come in Christ's Name do. And thankfully so. Because if Jesus had the mind of you, he would not have qualified to take your sin upon Himself.

And who is it that knows the Mind of Christ, that HE may instruct Him? Would this not be the Same God and Father of the Lord's Christ whose LAW you preach to the world is inadequate and incomplete?

There is a power who would have men believe God's LAW is incomplete and inadequate. But it isn't the Mind of Christ.

Does the law impart the knowledge contained within the "mind of Christ"?

John 12: 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Why didn't Jesus kill as other men? Why didn't He steal, as other men? Why didn't He lie, as other men? Why didn't HE promote His own religion, as other men?

Because HE doesn't have your mind, which is convinced God's Law is incomplete and inadequate. Therefore, instead of Judging God's LAW, He walked in them, as God instructed. Shall I not consider these truths?

The mind of Christ actually contains every word that precedes out of the mouth of God. Every word. The law doesn't have that. Never has.

But I do have "EVERY WORD" that Proceeds out of the Mouth of God, that HE wanted me to have "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Just as Eve did. It's just that the "other voice" in the garden has convinced "many", who call Jesus Lord, Lord, as it convinced Eve, that God's Law is inadequate and incomplete.

I asked for Scriptures to support your judgment against God and His Laws and you provided a verse that actually exposes this philosophy of yours, not supports it.

I am still open to something other than the imagination of your own heart, that teaches God's LAW is incomplete and inadequate to instruct a man of God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I can assure you that the Christ "of the Bible" doesn't Judge God or His Laws as "incomplete and inadequate" as you and "many" who come in Christ's Name do. And thankfully so. Because if Jesus had the mind of you, he would not have qualified to take your sin upon Himself.

I see you're angry now. What made you angry? The Truth. It is small thing for me to be judged by you.

I tell what I expect Christ to do. I believe Christ would expect every man to give Him the glory due Him for accomplishing the Atonement. That is what "suspect" Christ desires.

And who is it that knows the Mind of Christ, that HE may instruct Him? Would this not be the Same God and Father of the Lord's Christ whose LAW you preach to the world is inadequate and incomplete?

There is a power who would have men believe God's LAW is incomplete and inadequate. But it isn't the Mind of Christ.

So the Son learns from the Father through the law? Is that what you're actually insisting takes place. The law isn't the "mind of Christ". If it were, then there would not need to be an appeal to the "mind of Christ" in Paul's letter to those in Rome.

John 12: 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Why didn't Jesus kill as other men? Why didn't He steal, as other men? Why didn't He lie, as other men? Why didn't HE promote His own religion, as other men?

Because HE doesn't have your mind, which is convinced God's Law is incomplete and inadequate. Therefore, instead of Judging God's LAW, He walked in them, as God instructed. Shall I not consider these truths?

Because He was GOD. Are you an Unitarian? Do you know the teaching of the Holy Trinity and the Hypostatic Union?

Jesus didn't kill because I wasn't part of HIS NATURE. Not because of the law. You are robbing Christ of His nature by teaching such nonsense.

 

[Studyman]

I see you're angry now. What made you angry? The Truth. It is small thing for me to be judged by you.

I tell what I expect Christ to do. I believe Christ would expect every man to give Him the glory due Him for accomplishing the Atonement. That is what "suspect" Christ desires.



So the Son learns from the Father through the law? Is that what you're actually insisting takes place. The law isn't the "mind of Christ". If it were, then there would not need to be an appeal to the "mind of Christ" in Paul's letter to those in Rome.




Because He was GOD. Are you an Unitarian? Do you know the teaching of the Holy Trinity and the Hypostatic Union?

Jesus didn't kill because I wasn't part of HIS NATURE. Not because of the law. You are robbing Christ of His nature by teaching such nonsense.

Thank you for another spirit filled reply.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Thank you for another spirit filled reply.

As compared to your own? The Truth hurts. Lies are easy to swallow. They take no effort to confirm.