Customized Religion

[praise_yeshua]

I was under condemnation for failing to keep the Law, thus I was delivered from the Law by obeying Acts 2:38.

Peter was preaching to those who heard him. Not you.

Every human being is born under the same Law and stuck in the same circumstance.

Nobody escapes it....

Under the law of sin and death. Yes. The law of Moses was ADDED much later. Moses was the Mediator of that law. Not God. That law consists of many ordinances and requirements that were never meant for Gentiles. They were given to Israel. Not me.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin....


23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


...including you, right?

Paul mentions several different "laws" in his discourse to those in Rome. He says very clearly, that the Gentiles "have not the law". Paul appeals to the law of consequence when it comes to Gentiles. Paul appeals to nature when it comes to Gentiles. He does not appeal to the law of Moses for Gentiles. He says they have not that law".

 

[praise_yeshua]

Let's look at if the gentiles have the Law again...


14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the (WRITTEN)law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;



19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin....

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;


Via context, the gentiles were under the Law but did not possess the written Law on parchment. The Jews held the written Law for all the world.

The Law is written on the hearts of all humans.

No. They never had that law of Moses.... just like Paul said. Neither did the vast majority of humanity from the beginning. Your appeal isn't working because you're not rightly recognizing the varying aspects of "law" in humanity. I do agree that law of Moses is not divided. However, there are clear distinctions made between the law of consequence, the law of nature, the law of sin/death. Every man, regardless of background or heritage, has experienced the sobering reality of facing death all around them. Endless death. We don't to know the law of Moses to recognize such. We live and breath death.

 

[Truther]

Peter was preaching to those who heard him. Not you.



Under the law of sin and death. Yes. The law of Moses was ADDED much later. Moses was the Mediator of that law. Not God. That law consists of many ordinances and requirements that were never meant for Gentiles. They were given to Israel. Not me.



Paul mentions several different "laws" in his discourse to those in Rome. He says very clearly, that the Gentiles "have not the law". Paul appeals to the law of consequence when it comes to Gentiles. Paul appeals to nature when it comes to Gentiles. He does not appeal to the law of Moses for Gentiles. He says they have not that law".

No, Paul does not specify "Laws".

Only says "Law".

AKA the Old testament in it's entirety.

"Law of consequence"...LOL

 

[Truther]

No. They never had that law of Moses.... just like Paul said. Neither did the vast majority of humanity from the beginning. Your appeal isn't working because you're not rightly recognizing the varying aspects of "law" in humanity. I do agree that law of Moses is not divided. However, there are clear distinctions made between the law of consequence, the law of nature, the law of sin/death. Every man, regardless of background or heritage, has experienced the sobering reality of facing death all around them. Endless death. We don't to know the law of Moses to recognize such. We live and breath death.

You just said exactly opposite of the passage.

They have the Law written in their hearts but don't have it?

C'mon, man

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, Paul does not specify "Laws".

Only says "Law".

AKA the Old testament in it's entirety.

"Law of consequence"...LOL

Laugh all you want. You're deflecting.

"do by nature"..... Read it again.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Paul is appealing the natural (nature) of the Gentile when they do things similar to the law of Moses. Yet, they never had the broader aspects of the law of Moses required of them. It really is simple. You just need to abandon your position.

The "law of nature" is what is written in natural things. It is appealed to in Romans 1.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

If you will just stop and start at Romans 1 and start working on a proper exegesis of the narrative, you will recognize the differences. Paul wonderfully destroys and opposition to the Gospel with his beautiful deconstruction of the Gospel message.

 

[Truther]

Just don't teach the Law is also including the law of gravity or 2nd law of thermodynamics, next.

 

[Truther]

Laugh all you want. You're deflecting.

"do by nature"..... Read it again.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Paul is appealing the natural (nature) of the Gentile when they do things similar to the law of Moses. Yet, they never had the broader aspects of the law of Moses required of them. It really is simple. You just need to abandon your position.

The "law of nature" is what is written in natural things. It is appealed to in Romans 1.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

If you will just stop and start at Romans 1 and start working on a proper exegesis of the narrative, you will recognize the differences. Paul wonderfully destroys and opposition to the Gospel with his beautiful deconstruction of the Gospel message.

Did Abraham have the OT Law?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You just said exactly opposite of the passage.

They have the Law written in their hearts but don't have it?

C'mon, man

In the heart is not an appeal to the new birth.... That fact is witnessed here.....

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

 

[praise_yeshua]

Did Abraham have the OT Law?

Are you seriously asking me that?

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

No. Abraham did not have the law of Moses. Moses was a Gentile.

 

[Studyman]

The Law of Sin and Death is the principle of Original Sin.

It is different than the Law of God which in practice activates the Law of Sin in us because we have been sold to sin.

So... the Law of God activates the Law of Sin.

I don't think activate is the right word, but perhaps "Expose" the Law of Sin.

 

[Studyman]

Are you seriously asking me that?

Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:

What Law?

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

What LAW was "ADDED" because of transgressions? Adultery? No, Abimelec knew it was a Law of God not to commit adultery even before Moses? Clean and unclean animals? No, Noah knew there was a difference between animals, some clean and some unclean, before Moses was even born. But what Law do we know Abraham didn't have? Was he required to take a goat to the Levite Priest, and kill it before he could be forgiven? Certainly this "LAW" was not "added" until after the Golden calf, 430 years after Abraham. Truly Abraham was justifed/forgiven "Apart" for this Law.

Did God wipe out Sodom for sin, which is defined in the Scriptures as transgressing God's Commandments, that they didn't even have?

It is true that this philosophy regarding Moses making his own laws, is promoted by this world's religions. But it seems the Christ Himself warned of this very thing.

No. Abraham did not have the law of Moses. Moses was a Gentile.

I was not aware that Moses created Laws. Doesn't it say in the Holy Scriptures that God gave Moses "HIS" Laws? "HIS" Feasts? HIS Commandments?

And doesn't the Scriptures say of Abraham " And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
For instance.

EX. 16: 26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.

27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.

28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

And regarding Moses being a Gentile. Was Abraham not also a Gentile? In fact, did God not say in the Holy Scriptures,

Lev. 19: 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. 35 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure. 36 Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt.

37 Therefore shall ye observe all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: I am the LORD.

Where is Moses's Law?

 

[praise_yeshua]

What LAW was "ADDED" because of transgressions? Adultery? No, Abimelec knew it was a Law of God not to commit adultery even before Moses? Clean and unclean animals? No, Noah knew there was a difference between animals, some clean and some unclean, before Moses was even born. But what Law do we know Abraham didn't have? Was he required to take a goat to the Levite Priest, and kill it before he could be forgiven? Certainly this "LAW" was not "added" until after the Golden calf, 430 years after Abraham. Truly Abraham was justifed/forgiven "Apart" for this Law.

Abraham had two sons. One after the flesh and one according to promise. What law did Abraham break in working after the flesh?

God said Abraham operated in the flesh.

I was not aware that Moses created Laws. Doesn't it say in the Holy Scriptures that God gave Moses "HIS" Laws? "HIS" Feasts? HIS Commandments?

Moses added laws as needed. After all, Moses was the Mediator of his law. Moses had authority to do so. Example.

Deu 25:11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:
Deu 25:12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

You can believe this come from God if you like. I'm pretty sure, I'd reward my wife if she did this for me.

And regarding Moses being a Gentile. Was Abraham not also a Gentile? In fact, did God not say in the Holy Scriptures,

Sorry. Wrong name. I meant to say Abraham was a Gentile. Moses married a Gentile. Which ultimate caused him to lose a brother.

 

[Studyman]

Abraham had two sons. One after the flesh and one according to promise. What law did Abraham break in working after the flesh?

God said Abraham operated in the flesh.

You didn't answer the question, or really even address it. That's OK. I know how important religious tradition can be. It would be great to actually have a discussion which included open honest examination of Scriptures regarding what "LAW" was ADDED 430 years after Abraham, "because of Transgressions", that was to be in force "Till the Prophesied Priest of God" should come.

Perhaps another time.

Moses added laws as needed. After all, Moses was the Mediator of his law. Moses had authority to do so. Example.

Deu 25:11 When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets:
Deu 25:12 Then thou shalt cut off her hand, thine eye shall not pity her.

You can believe this come from God if you like. I'm pretty sure, I'd reward my wife if she did this for me.

Religious man has been Judging God and His instruction for a very long time. Your philosophy of simply rejecting the Words of God you don't understand, is common. Just claim whatever instruction contradicts popular religious philosophy, isn't from God and in this way, men can create their own religion, with only those instruction from God that suits them. This is a popular tactic and has led to dozens of differing religious sects and franchises in this world God placed both you and I in. But I would consider Paul's words and his understanding that this LAW, like all of God's Law, was written "For our sakes no doubt". Perhaps instead of Judging God's servant of promoting the imaginations of his own mind and not God, why not consider that maybe it is your understanding that is being blocked. And pray that God will remove the veil and study to find what the true message of this Law is, just as Paul teaches about the Law, "Thou shall not muzzle the ox that treads out the grain"?

That would, of course, present the possibility that God and Moses are right, and it is you who do not understand them, when Moses is read. Certainly, something to consider given all that is written about man.

Sorry. Wrong name. I meant to say Abraham was a Gentile. Moses married a Gentile. Which ultimate caused him to lose a brother.

Num. 12: 1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman. 2 And they said, Hath the LORD indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the LORD heard it.

It seems, once again that what you promote, and what the Scriptures say are two different things. The Scriptures, nor the God who is said to have inspired them, doesn't blame Moses for the behavior of Miriam and Aaron. You do, I'm sure there are other religious men of this world who taught you this, but one thing is for sure, the Bible didn't teach you this.

6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. 7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. 8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

Your disdain for Moses isn't new. I have heard "many", who come in Christ's Name, accuse Moses. What is sad, is that this story has many great lessons. Why did Miriam get leprosy and Aaron didn't? But it seems you only saw sin in Moses which caused Aaron to be lost.

According to God, we were all Gentiles at one point, were we not.

Lev. 19: 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

In your religion, would this then exclude Moses Wife?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You didn't answer the question, or really even address it. That's OK. I know how important religious tradition can be. It would be great to actually have a discussion which included open honest examination of Scriptures regarding what "LAW" was ADDED 430 years after Abraham, "because of Transgressions", that was to be in force "Till the Prophesied Priest of God" should come.

Perhaps another time.

Really? Explain how I didn't answer. Might that be a solution?

Religious man has been Judging God and His instruction for a very long time. Your philosophy of simply rejecting the Words of God you don't understand, is common. Just claim whatever instruction contradicts popular religious philosophy, isn't from God and in this way, men can create their own religion, with only those instruction from God that suits them. This is a popular tactic and has led to dozens of differing religious sects and franchises in this world God placed both you and I in. But I would consider Paul's words and his understanding that this LAW, like all of God's Law, was written "For our sakes no doubt". Perhaps instead of Judging God's servant of promoting the imaginations of his own mind and not God, why not consider that maybe it is your understanding that is being blocked. And pray that God will remove the veil and study to find what the true message of this Law is, just as Paul teaches about the Law, "Thou shall not muzzle the ox that treads out the grain"?

That would, of course, present the possibility that God and Moses are right, and it is you who do not understand them, when Moses is read. Certainly, something to consider given all that is written about man.

There is no need to "call God down" on your "side". If you want to have a honest discussion, we can. There are symbolizes of Divine service within the law of Moses. However, they are incomplete and inadequate. They only serve children. That is why God said "finding fault with them"......

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Do you see those words? "Finding fault with them".......

???? I'd like your explanation for these words given your statements.

 

[civic]

@Studyman and @praise_yeshua the two of you could have a great discussion we all could learn from as both of you are really good students of Scripture. I'm looking forward to a great dialogue where you guys can be cordial. I look forward to the topic and I'm sure it will benefit many of us here. Thanks !

 

[Studyman]

Really? Explain how I didn't answer. Might that be a solution?

There is no need to "call God down" on your "side". If you want to have a honest discussion, we can. There are symbolizes of Divine service within the law of Moses. However, they are incomplete and inadequate. They only serve children. That is why God said "finding fault with them"......

That may be what you have been taught, that it was God and His LAW that was inadequate and incomplete. But according to the actual Scriptures, this is not true. It was the Shepherds that led men astray, not God's Law.

Mal. 2: 4 And ye shall know that I have sent this commandment unto you, that my covenant might be with Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

5 My covenant was with him of life and peace; and I gave them to him for the fear wherewith he feared me, and was afraid before my name. (Ex. 32:26, read it for yourself)

6 The law of truth was in his mouth, and iniquity was not found in his lips: he walked with me in peace and equity, and did turn many away from iniquity.

7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

So what did God do? Hebrews tells us.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Yes, finding fault with them. The Priests that corrupted God's Priesthood Covenant with Levi and led God's People astray.

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

Do you see those words? "Finding fault with them".......

???? I'd like your explanation for these words given your statements.

There was NO Command of God for Israel to bring goats to the Levite Priest, and kill it for their sins, before the Golden Calf. This Priesthood "LAW" was "Added because of Transgressions". This Priesthood Covenant is the Covenant God made with them "Because they continued not in God's Covenant" that HE gave them, that they broke.

Malachi, and other places, show that it was the priests and Pharisees who corrupted the "Way of the Lord", that "taught for doctrines the commandments of men", not God. "For finding fault with them", those who led His People astray, HE made a New Priesthood Covenant, "Not after the Order of Aaron".

Jer. 50: 6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Matt. 15: 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

A New Priesthood after a different order.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

But what LAW did the people receive from the Levite Priests? Did they not corrupt the Priesthood, and teach for doctrines the commandments of Men and not God? And how were sins forgiven in this Old Priesthood? Was it not by taking a goat to the Levite Priest, and killing it?

And how are God's Laws received now? Do I go to a Levite Priest or some random preacher from one of the many religious sects of this world, to hear Moses or the Testimony of the Lord's Christ? Do I still take a goat to the Levite Priest for forgiveness? No, we have the Oracles of God in our own home, in our minds so we can hear God's Word apart from a corrupt priesthood. And we no longer take a goat to the Levite Priest for atonement of our sins, "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more". We are in the new priesthood covenant. The Levitical Priesthood has become old and vanished.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That may be what you have been taught,

You can stop this. It is not what I was taught. It is what I have learned.

So what did God do? Hebrews tells us.

I quoted it. I don't need for you to replay what it says by quoting it again as if I didn't read it properly the first time. Just explain.

Yes, finding fault with them. The Priests that corrupted God's Priesthood Covenant with Levi and led God's People astray.

Not just the priests.. ALL OF THEM.... failed. Which is why the law was inadequate and insufficient. God REQUIRED the death of His Son. The law was never given to make men righteous.

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

You are preaching righteousness by the law. You're restricting the failure to keep the law to "corrupt Priests" when it is ALL of Israel. ALL of them.

Why are you doing this? Fault is found in the method, not just in those who failed it.

 

[Soyeong]

The Law of sin and death is the entire OT Law.

It reveals sin and demands death per the previous chapter.

In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of life with the law of sin and death, so he equated the Law of God with the Law of the Spirit, which straightforwardly makes sense because the Spirit is God. The Law of Moses was given by God (Deuteronomy 5:31-33), so it is the Law of God and it was referred to as being the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23. In other words, the Law of Moses is the Law of the Spirit of Life.

Was the old testament law your schoolmaster to bring you to Christ, or was the law of the Spirit the schoolmaster to bring you to Christ?
Are you no longer under the OT schoolmaster? Or is the schoolmaster the Spirit you are no longer under?

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law brings us to Christ because it teaches us how to know him, but does not lead us to Christ so that we can then reject what he taught and go back to living in sin. Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster.

In Galatians 3:16-19, a newer covenant does not nullify the promise of an older covenant that has already been ratified, so the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey God's law. Likewise, in Galatians 3:25-29, every aspect of being children of God, in Christ, through faith, being children of Abraham, and heirs of the promise is all directly connected to living in obedience to God's law. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, in Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same words as him, and the works that they should be doing were in obedience to God's law.

Did Abraham have the OT Law?

Indeed, in Genesis 18:19, it says that God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that he has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth will be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, His statutes, His commandments, and His laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham love the Lord their God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them non the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and his household to do that, and because they did that in obedience to the Law of Moses.

 

[Studyman]

You can stop this. It is not what I was taught. It is what I have learned.

Yes, you learned from someone that God and His Laws are inadequate and incomplete. The Bible doesn't teach this. That is the point.

I quoted it. I don't need for you to replay what it says by quoting it again as if I didn't read it properly the first time. Just explain.

I'll try harder to proceed in a manner in which you approve.

Not just the priests.. ALL OF THEM.... failed. Which is why the law was inadequate and insufficient.

I don't share your judgment of the God and Father of the Lord's Christ. I don't believe the Scriptures support your judgment against God, that HE and His Instruction in righteousness is inadequate and incomplete. Nor does Paul promote any such philosophy. Furthermore, it is clear that God didn't treat those who were Led Astray with the same condemnation as those who led them astray. You may have "learned" this from someone, but not from the Holy scriptures. Even Paul teaches that there is greater condemnation for those who teach than for those who are taught.

Your adopted religious philosophy, that God's instruction in righteousness was inadequate for Abraham, Noah, Caleb, Joshua, Gideon, Shadrack, Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, etc., and most important of all the Jesus "of the Bible" Himself, was incomplete and inadequate may be a popular religious philosophy of many of this world's religious businesses and sects.

But the Holy scriptures promote no such thing. Does it matter? Perhaps not. Nevertheless, the Holy Scriptures do not promote the same Judgment against God as you do. This is simply undeniable Biblical Truth. We are to become servants of God, not Judges of God.

God REQUIRED the death of His Son. The law was never given to make men righteous.

This is true. As it is written;

Heb. 10: 3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

This is also true. If the Blood of bulls and goats took away our sins, then Christ died in vain.

You are preaching righteousness by the law.

No sir. I do not believe the sacrificial "Works of the Law" required by the Priesthood of God "After the Order of Aaron" made men righteous. But the Pharisees did. These preachers taught for doctrines the commandments of men, they despised God's Judgments and polluted His Sabbaths. And yet, they would bring their sacrifices to God believing that the Sacrificial "works of the Law" made them Righteous. As it is written;

Is. 1: 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. 5 Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.

These men rejected God's instruction in righteousness just as did the Pharisees. And yet, they continued in the sacrificial "works of the Law" for justification.

10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. 12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

Had they been obedient and willing, like Zacharias and Simeon and "EVERY" example of faithful man in the entire Bible,, they would have known God, and the Holy One of Israel, their redeemer. And what did this God tell them?

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

But now I have this world's preachers teaching that this same God was lying to them all along. That being willing and obedient to a God whose LAWs are inadequate and incomplete will not help them.

Shall I not warn my brothers and sisters about this religious philosophy?

You're restricting the failure to keep the law to "corrupt Priests" when it is ALL of Israel. ALL of them.

No Sir, I am pointing out that the Priesthood Covenant God made with Israel "because of transgressions" was corrupted. And this is why there was a need for "Another Priesthood" after a different order. Everyone knows that children fall as they learn to walk by the very creation of God. Likewise, even just men, excluding the Lord's Christ, fall while learning to Walk in the Spirit. This has always been the case, at least according to Scriptures.

1 Kings 8: 46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near; 47 Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness; 48 And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name: 49 Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause, 50 And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them:

Ecc. 7: 19 Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten mighty men which are in the city. 20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.

Why are you doing this? Fault is found in the method, not just in those who failed it.

You only believe this because when you knew God, you glorified Him not "as God". But chose instead of accusing Him of being unjust, and His Instruction in righteousness, that Jesus walked in, as incomplete and inadequate.

I'm hoping you might reconsider your philosophy, and take heed to who you learned these things from and follow the instruction of Paul concerning the importance of the Holy Scriptures "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

There are enough "Customized religions" in this world. Why not take a leap of Faith and place our trust in the God and Father of the Lord's Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, you learned from someone that God and His Laws are inadequate and incomplete. The Bible doesn't teach this. That is the point.

No. I learned from the Scriptures. That is what we are debating. You're trying to "poison the well". You need to stop this. This not part of an ethical debate tactic.

I'll try harder to proceed in a manner in which you approve.

You don't have to please me. Just rightfully recognizing that you are trying control this debate with your comments.

I'm not going to respond to commentary. I care about evidence. Not commentary.

This is also true. If the Blood of bulls and goats took away our sins, then Christ died in vain.

No. It is MORE than this. The law could not impart righteousness through obedience. If it could, Christ died in vain.

No sir. I do not believe the sacrificial "Works of the Law" required by the Priesthood of God "After the Order of Aaron" made men righteous. But the Pharisees did. These preachers taught for doctrines the commandments of men, they despised God's Judgments and polluted His Sabbaths. And yet, they would bring their sacrifices to God believing that the Sacrificial "works of the Law" made them Righteous. As it is written;

Had they been obedient and willing, like Zacharias and Simeon and "EVERY" example of faithful man in the entire Bible,, they would have known God, and the Holy One of Israel, their redeemer. And what did this God tell them?

Christ was purposed before the foundation of the world. Christ was chosen to die before anyone had ever sinned. God chose that Christ alone would impart righteousness. Even if they had been "Obedient" (they weren't) they would not have known God because the law never imparted adequate knowledge of God.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

It is only the "mind of Christ" that adequately imparts the knowledge of God to us. Not the law.