Covenants

[JoshebB]

Do please consider answering the questions listed in Post 17. I think they will go a long way in understanding covenants as scripture asserts them and we can discuss those answers to mutual edification. Otherwise, I think I'm done here. I've said my piece and don't feel the need to belabor it.


I will add this: by citing Galatians 3, the op has implicitly proved the promises spoke to Abraham were also spoken to Jesus..... and since Jesus is pre-existent that means there is an eternal aspect to the covenant that is not explicitly reported in Genesis 15. In other words, that covenant is not merely temporal or everlasting, it is eternal, and its roots precede creation.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Do you care about what the word means as defined by scripture?

Absolutely, No need to imply that I possibly don't.

If you care about what the word means and the word does not mean "promise" then this op is incorrect and you should care about that. Basing any theology on a single word is bad practice and I will readily join you in protest of that practice...... but what others do or do not do is no measure of my posts so please do not conflate my views with that of others. Instead, please address what I have posted exactly as I have posted it.

Certainly make your own judgements for yourself. The use of different words do not indicate differences. When a word such as covenant is based upon promises, then you can't exclude the characteristics of promises.

I ask the same of you. I answered your question. Now define covenant while excluding promises. Covenants are simply how promises are applied. When God could not swear by no greater. He swore by Himself. Swearing is a promise. When it comes from man, we treat as it should be treated, suspect. When God swears, it is never conditional.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That is incorrect.

God's Character demands such.

The implied covenant between the Father and the Son in which Jesus was foreknown as the perfect sacrifice occurred prior to the creation of the world, according to 1 Peter 1:20.

The idea that this world is God's only creative act is contrary to Scriptures. Angels predate this world. They are created beings. I happen to believe God is very powerful and can do as He pleases anywhere He pleases. The only thing that "constrains" God is His Character.

That is incorrect. Covenants contain many constituent components other than promises. Covenants contain promises, but promises do not contain covenants.

Sure they do. Remove promises from covenants do you still have a covenant?

If that is stated in the promise.

Glad you agree. See how a have no covenant without promises.

Yes and that is an example of a promise that is not a covenant!

I know you believe this. I haven't seen anything to indicate why you see a delineation here. We know the parties involved. We know the promise given. We know this is an appeal to the new covenant. Even though the word covenant isn't used in the statement, we know it is about a covenant. God's purpose before Adam was to create man in His own image. Adam and Eve were just the beginning. They were not made completely in the image of God. They were the "clay" on the potter's wheel. A work in progress that Satan got involved in. There are "things"... "in play" that predate us. Things relative to the creation of Satan and his fall.

You have, therefore, just disproved the opening statement of this op!

Then you're basing your theology upon one word. I'm not. You're "dying on the hill" of the English word covenant. I respectfully ask you to reconsider. You don't have to accept what you've been taught. You can change. I agree with you. One word does not a theology make.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Do please consider answering the questions listed in Post 17. I think they will go a long way in understanding covenants as scripture asserts them and we can discuss those answers to mutual edification. Otherwise, I think I'm done here. I've said my piece and don't feel the need to belabor it.


I will add this: by citing Galatians 3, the op has implicitly proved the promises spoke to Abraham were also spoken to Jesus..... and since Jesus is pre-existent that means there is an eternal aspect to the covenant that is not explicitly reported in Genesis 15. In other words, that covenant is not merely temporal or everlasting, it is eternal, and its roots precede creation.

I happen to agree with you. I believe you misunderstood me. I will wait for your response.

 

[JoshebB]

I happen to agree with you. I believe you misunderstood me. I will wait for your response.

What's my misunderstanding?

 

[praise_yeshua]

What's my misunderstanding?

An eternal covenant. Can you find that phrase in the Scriptures. "Eternal Covenant". It is understood as such given the evidence. I don't require the specific phrase to believe in it.

 

[JoshebB]

An eternal covenant. Can you find that phrase in the Scriptures. "Eternal Covenant". It is understood as such given the evidence. I don't require the specific phrase to believe in it.

Do you think God and Jesus have a covenant relationship in the Bible?