Could it be happening now ?

[Doug Brents]

No it doesn't it says until the fullness of the gentiles are reached then God will bring Israel back to Him. The Church and Israel are 2 distinct peoples of God. The church did nor replace Israel. Because of their rejection the gentiles who were not the people of God became the people of God. God will bring Israel to repentance when He returns just like the passages I referenced teach.

hope this helps !!!

That is the way you want to interpret it, but that is not what it says. There are not two different distinct peoples of God. Look again at Rom 11. If a branch from a wild tree (Gentile) is cut off and grafted into the root (the Patriarch), does it become a new tree? or does it become part of the old tree? It becomes part of the old tree. The Church is not a new group. On Pentecost 3000 souls were added to the Church AND THEY WERE ALL JEWISH SOULS. Then Cornelius was added to the Church, and all the Gentiles after him. The Church began as a completely Jewish body, and the Gentiles were ADDED to the Jewish Church. The Church does not replace Israel, the Church IS Israel.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

I'm actually honestly curious as to why you would ask him a question this way. Why not rather ask him why according to scripture why is it you believe that? Seems you're implying a person hasn't studied themselves and are just swallowing hook line and sinker whatever someone tells them or that they don't have their own mind. I also would like to know how you back up your material and I said so today and I never went so far as to pry and ask who are your teachers. As for me I wouldn't find that appropriate.

It's a completely proper question. No one develops their ideas and opinions in a vacuum. Stop being so perennially offended at everything. All my comments and material and presentations give my sources and references. It's not secret. I would hope everyone wouldn't take what I say as "gospel" but would take the time and effort to look up everything to check for themselves. The member is stating wildly unbiblical interpretations and taking things way out of context. I simply want to know where he gets this from because he surely can't defend it with Scripture.

And while I'm at it, please share who your pastors and teachers are for your views too.

 

[Doug Brents]

It's a completely proper question. No one develops their ideas and opinions in a vacuum.

Of course not. But, as the other gentleman stated, Biblical understanding comes best through personal Biblical study.

Stop being so perennially offended at everything. All my comments and material and presentations give my sources and references. It's not secret. I would hope everyone wouldn't take what I say as "gospel" but would take the time and effort to look up everything to check for themselves.

And well they should, as have most of mine.

The member is stating wildly unbiblical interpretations and taking things way out of context.

Not out of context or unbiblical, just not agreeing with your own interpretation.

I simply want to know where he gets this from because he surely can't defend it with Scripture.

I can and have defended my assertions with Scripture. You don't agree with my assertions, and that is good because it causes both of us (me at least) to study and grow in Christ.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Of course not. But, as the other gentleman stated, Biblical understanding comes best through personal Biblical study.

And well they should, as have most of mine.

Not out of context or unbiblical, just not agreeing with your own interpretation.

I can and have defended my assertions with Scripture. You don't agree with my assertions, and that is good because it causes both of us (me at least) to study and grow in Christ.

It's not about agreeing. You have made statements which ignored parts of verses or other passages which clearly contradict what you claim. That's a big problem. So if these things you are saying are completely the result of your own personal study, then that answers my question. And I simply don't believe you.

 

[Doug Brents]

It's not about agreeing. You have made statements which ignored parts of verses or other passages which clearly contradict what you claim. That's a big problem. So if these things you are saying are completely the result of your own personal study, then that answers my question. And I simply don't believe you.

You were the one ignoring parts of that passage. You highlighted the later half of the verse, ignoring the first half that contradicted your conclusion. But you go on believing that you know when He is coming. You are in good company with everyone else who has predicted His return on a certain date, and that date has come and gone, but we are still here. But I am ready for His return at any moment, and will rejoice to see it, whether it is during my lifetime, or millennia after I die.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

You were the one ignoring parts of that passage. You highlighted the later half of the verse, ignoring the first half that contradicted your conclusion. But you go on believing that you know when He is coming. You are in good company with everyone else who has predicted His return on a certain date, and that date has come and gone, but we are still here. But I am ready for His return at any moment, and will rejoice to see it, whether it is during my lifetime, or millennia after I die.

It's your loss not to be open minded and check out things that make you uncomfortable in your preset views. Afterall, you don't know what you don't know.

 

[Rockson]

There are not two different distinct peoples of God. Look again at Rom 11. If a branch from a wild tree (Gentile) is cut off and grafted into the root (the Patriarch), does it become a new tree? or does it become part of the old tree? It becomes part of the old tree. The Church is not a new group. On Pentecost 3000 souls were added to the Church AND THEY WERE ALL JEWISH SOULS. Then Cornelius was added to the Church, and all the Gentiles after him. The Church began as a completely Jewish body, and the Gentiles were ADDED to the Jewish Church. The Church does not replace Israel, the Church IS Israel.

And Paul the Apostle said it this way...."You which are Christs (speaking to Gentiles) are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise" That's pretty clear. If that's what we are then that's what we are. And the Bible says we are made one new man, Jew and Gentile being a part of that one.

But does Rom 11 really speak of a difference. We're this and they (the Jews) are that? And what does it mean that all Israel shall be saved? Steve Gregg although I don't agree with him about everything but it does seem he has an interesting take on the matter. I'd call it food for thought. He argues All Israel will be saved is not the timing they'll be saved but the method. All Israel will be saved by the method laid out in the gospel

Romans 11 (Transcript) | Romans | Steve Gregg | OpenTheo

In "Romans 11," Steve Gregg provides a theological interpretation of Paul's discussion of Israel in his letter to the Romans. Gregg argues that Paul is clarifying the definition of Israel and that both Jews and Gentiles are saved through their faith in Christ. Paul uses the imagery of the olive...

opentheo.org

 

[dwight92070]

When was Daniel 9:24-27 fulfilled? The Messiah had made a covenant called the New Covenant, and by His death, He put a stop to animal sacrifices and grain offerings, in the middle of Daniel's 70th week. His sacrifice made all others obsolete, even though the unbelieving Jews continued to make those sacrifices, until God judged them, and had Rome destroy the temple, the city and the people.

Note that Daniel was told in Daniel 12:4:

"But as for you, Daniel, CONCEAL THESE WORDS and SEAL UP THE BOOK UNTIL THE END OF TIME."
Daniel 12:9:
"He said, 'Go your way, Daniel, for THESE WORDS ARE CONCEALED AND SEALED UP UNTIL THE END OF TIME."

So Daniel was not allowed to know the meaning of his prophecy at that time, or to even spread the word around.


When will Revelation be fulfilled? In Rev. 1:1, John is told:

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, THE THINGS WHICH MUST SOON TAKE PLACE; ... "

Revelation 1:3 "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR."

Revelation 22:10 "And he said to me, 'DO NOT SEAL UP THE WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK FOR THE TIME IS NEAR'."

So John is told that the fulfillment of prophecy of the book of Revelation MUST SOON TAKE PLACE and he is told twice that THE FULFILLMENT TIME IS NEAR."

Therefore we know that MOST OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION HAD ITS FULFILLMENT RIGHT THERE IN THE 1ST CENTURY.

However there are some obvious exceptions, which refer to Christ's second coming and the new heaven and the new earth. But the majority of Revelation has been fulfilled, as John was told that it would be SOON.

The dispensationalists (dsp) claim that they take everything in the Bible literally. However, here we see again that they do not do that. If John was told that the "time was near" and that these things "must soon take place", then a literal understanding of that would be a reference to the 1st century. But they say that MOST of Revelation is future, which is not true. Some dsp also claim that we non dsp take EVERYTHING spiritually or symbolically. That also is not true. We must take each scripture case by case to see whether the context and/or content is to be taken literally or nonliterally.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

When was Daniel 9:24-27 fulfilled? The Messiah had made a covenant called the New Covenant, and by His death, He put a stop to animal sacrifices and grain offerings, in the middle of Daniel's 70th week. His sacrifice made all others obsolete, even though the unbelieving Jews continued to make those sacrifices, until God judged them, and had Rome destroy the temple, the city and the people.

Note that Daniel was told in Daniel 12:4:

"But as for you, Daniel, CONCEAL THESE WORDS and SEAL UP THE BOOK UNTIL THE END OF TIME."
Daniel 12:9:
"He said, 'Go your way, Daniel, for THESE WORDS ARE CONCEALED AND SEALED UP UNTIL THE END OF TIME."

So Daniel was not allowed to know the meaning of his prophecy at that time, or to even spread the word around.


When will Revelation be fulfilled? In Rev. 1:1, John is told:

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, THE THINGS WHICH MUST SOON TAKE PLACE; ... "

Revelation 1:3 "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; FOR THE TIME IS NEAR."

Revelation 22:10 "And he said to me, 'DO NOT SEAL UP THE WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK FOR THE TIME IS NEAR'."

So John is told that the fulfillment of prophecy of the book of Revelation MUST SOON TAKE PLACE and he is told twice that THE FULFILLMENT TIME IS NEAR."

Therefore we know that MOST OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION HAD ITS FULFILLMENT RIGHT THERE IN THE 1ST CENTURY.

However there are some obvious exceptions, which refer to Christ's second coming and the new heaven and the new earth. But the majority of Revelation has been fulfilled, as John was told that it would be SOON.

The dispensationalists (dsp) claim that they take everything in the Bible literally. However, here we see again that they do not do that. If John was told that the "time was near" and that these things "must soon take place", then a literal understanding of that would be a reference to the 1st century. But they say that MOST of Revelation is future, which is not true. Some dsp also claim that we non dsp take EVERYTHING spiritually or symbolically. That also is not true. We must take each scripture case by case to see whether the context and/or content is to be taken literally or nonliterally.

The words in English do not mean what you assume you mean. Have you even investigated the language of the original text?

 

[civic]

The words in English do not mean you assume you mean. Have you even investigated the language of the original text?

ditto

 

[Studyman]

No it doesn't it says until the fullness of the gentiles are reached then God will bring Israel back to Him. The Church and Israel are 2 distinct peoples of God. The church did nor replace Israel. Because of their rejection the gentiles who were not the people of God became the people of God. God will bring Israel to repentance when He returns just like the passages I referenced teach.

hope this helps !!!

For me, the following is why I don't believe there are different Churches of God, Different Faith, which means different beliefs, etc.

Ex. 12: 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Lev. 19: 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
For me, this means Abel was "in Christ", as well as Noah and Abraham. Caleb was a member of the ONE Church of God, as it is written. Shadrack and Abednego were "In Christ".

Dan. 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Rom. 11: 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches.

But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Heb. 4: 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

I understand how popular the religious philosophy is, that there are two churches, or two salvations, or two Gospels or that God respects people according to their DNA.

But because of these and many other Scriptures, I don't believe this religious philosophy reflects the Truth of Scriptures.

 

[civic]

For me, the following is why I don't believe there are different Churches of God, Different Faith, which means different beliefs, etc.

Ex. 12: 49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Lev. 19: 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Is. 56: 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
For me, this means Abel was "in Christ", as well as Noah and Abraham. Caleb was a member of the ONE Church of God, as it is written. Shadrack and Abednego were "In Christ".

Dan. 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Rom. 11: 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches.

But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Heb. 4: 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

I understand how popular the religious philosophy is, that there are two churches, or two salvations, or two Gospels or that God respects people according to their DNA.

But because of these and many other Scriptures, I don't believe this religious philosophy reflects the Truth of Scriptures.

The great tribulation has to do with Israel in their land snd not the church. His 2nd Coming is to bring down all the enemies of the Jews when they at that time will recognize Him whom they have pierced.

 

[Studyman]

The great tribulation has to do with Israel in their land snd not the church. His 2nd Coming is to bring down all the enemies of the Jews when they at that time will recognize Him whom they have pierced.

I have heard of this philosophy. However, I choose to place my trust in what the Scriptures say.

And I would ask a question of you.

In Matt. 7, The Jesus of the bible says that "In that Day" when HE speaks face to face with "MANY", who will say unto Him, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?" 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

And Again;

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

My question is, what is the difference between these "many", who professed to know Him, and the Jews who didn't Believe He was the Messiah?

 

[Azriel]

The words in English do not mean what you assume you mean. Have you even investigated the language of the original text?

But he used all caps that must make it true.

 

[Obadiah]

It’s clear in the Old Testament that the Jews are God’s chosen people. It’s also clear they were called to be a “light to the Gentiles”

I the Lord have called You [the Messiah] for a righteous purpose and in righteousness; I will take You by the hand and will keep You; I will give You for a covenant to the people [Israel], for a light to the nations [Gentiles], Isaiah 42:6

He says, It is too light a thing that you should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the survivors [of the judgments] of Israel; I will also give you for a light to the nations, that My salvation may extend to the end of the earth. Isaiah 49:6

For so the Lord has charged us, saying, I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles (the heathen), that you may bring [eternal] salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth. Acts 13:47

God desired to display His glory to the Gentile world through Israel and attract the world to Himself through His chosen people.
But nowhere in the Old Testament was it revealed that the Messiah would create “one new [spiritual] man,” the church. It is now possible for Gentiles to share in the promises of Abraham by being grafted into the olive tree that is Israel.

11. So I ask, Have they stumbled so as to fall [to their utter spiritual ruin, irretrievably]? By no means! But through their false step and transgression salvation [has come] to the Gentiles, so as to arouse Israel [to see and feel what they forfeited] and so to make them jealous.
12 Now if their stumbling (their lapse, their transgression) has so enriched the world [at large], and if [Israel’s] failure means such riches for the Gentiles, think what an enrichment and greater advantage will follow their full reinstatement!
13 But now I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I lay great stress on my ministry and magnify my office,
14 In the hope of making my fellow Jews jealous [in order to stir them up to imitate, copy, and appropriate], and thus managing to save some of them.
15 For if their rejection and exclusion from the benefits of salvation were [overruled] for the reconciliation of a world to God, what will their acceptance and admission mean? [It will be nothing short of] life from the dead!
16 Now if the first handful of dough offered as the firstfruits [Abraham and the patriarchs] is consecrated (holy), so is the whole mass [the nation of Israel]; and if the root [Abraham] is consecrated (holy), so are the branches. [Num. 15:19-21.]
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, while you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among them to share the richness [of the root and sap] of the olive tree,
18 Do not boast over the branches and pride yourself at their expense. If you do boast and feel superior, remember it is not you that support the root, but the root [that supports] you.
19 You will say then, Branches were broken (pruned) off so that I might be grafted in!
20 That is true. But they were broken (pruned) off because of their unbelief (their lack of real faith), and you are established through faith [because you do believe]. So do not become proud and conceited, but rather stand in awe and be reverently afraid.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches [because of unbelief], neither will He spare you [if you are guilty of the same offense].
22 Then note and appreciate the gracious kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s gracious kindness to you—provided you continue in His grace and abide in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off (pruned away).
23 And even those others [the fallen branches, Jews], if they do not persist in [clinging to] their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
24 For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and against nature grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much easier will it be to graft these natural [branches] back on [the original parent stock of] their own olive tree.
Rom. 11:11–24

 

[Ahar]

Are these really the signs of the times ?

I believe so. Here we are in the timeline. The Church is to evangelise the nations through the preaching of the gospel, but the whole world will not be evangelised, and at the end of this phase Christ will appear and the rapture of the Church and the raising of the dead in Christ will follow.

Next will be will come the time of tribulation and of the Antichrist and during this period the Jews will return to Palestine. They will be converted and will accept Jesus as their King.

At the end of the tribulation, Jesus and His saints will return to execute judgment on His enemies, and this is His second coming. At this time the living will be judged; the sheep and the goats separated; the Antichrist destroyed; and Satan will be bound for a thousand years. The saints who died during the tribulation will be raised and Christ will establish His throne in Jerusalem. The city and the Temple will be rebuilt and the ceremonial law with its altar and sacrifices will be restored. Jesus will now be supreme over all the nations of the earth.

This is the Messianic age which will last for a thousand years and it will be a period of great prosperity and blessedness. The results of sin will be removed and the Lion will lie down with the Lamb.

 

[Studyman]

It’s clear in the Old Testament that the Jews are God’s chosen people. It’s also clear they were called to be a “light to the Gentiles”

I the Lord have called You [the Messiah] for a righteous purpose and in righteousness; I will take You by the hand and will keep You; I will give You for a covenant to the people [Israel], for a light to the nations [Gentiles], Isaiah 42:6

He says, It is too light a thing that you should be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the survivors [of the judgments] of Israel; I will also give you for a light to the nations, that My salvation may extend to the end of the earth. Isaiah 49:6

For so the Lord has charged us, saying, I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles (the heathen), that you may bring [eternal] salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth. Acts 13:47

Yes, but the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching Jews corrupted the Priesthood Covenant God made with them, despised HIS Judgments, walked not in His Commandments, and went whoring after the religious traditions of the nation's God placed them in.

Ez. 36: 20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. 21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. 22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

Paul speaks to this.

Rom. 2: 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.

God desired to display His glory to the Gentile world through Israel and attract the world to Himself through His chosen people.
But nowhere in the Old Testament was it revealed that the Messiah would create “one new [spiritual] man,” the church.

I respectfully disagree with this statement. The entire meaning of "circumcise therefore the foreskin of your hearts", was to show "The New Man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", in my understanding. As the Christ, the Rock of Israel said, when HE was "Up where HE was before";

Ez. 18: 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you "a new heart and a new spirit": for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

This is the Jesus of the Bible's teaching from the very beginning of HIS Ministry, in my understanding.

Matt. 4: 17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Was this not also the same teaching HE gave to Cain?

"If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him."

It is written that there is only ONE body, ONE Faith. Wasn't Abraham, Caleb, Meshak, Rehab, Zacharias, Peter, Cornelious, and all the examples of Faith in the entire Bible, of this ONE Church?

What did Zacharias, Simeon and Anna teach about the Christ? How did they know Him, but the Mainstream preachers of their time did not?

Peter gives the answer to this, in my view.

Acts 5: 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

It is now possible for Gentiles to share in the promises of Abraham by being grafted into the olive tree that is Israel.

I would say it was always supposed to be this way.

Lev. 19: 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Is this not a Non-Jew being "Grafted into Israel"?

So I ask, Have they stumbled so as to fall [to their utter spiritual ruin, irretrievably]? By no means! But through their false step and transgression salvation [has come] to the Gentiles, so as to arouse Israel [to see and feel what they forfeited] and so to make them jealous.
12 Now if their stumbling (their lapse, their transgression) has so enriched the world [at large], and if [Israel’s] failure means such riches for the Gentiles, think what an enrichment and greater advantage will follow their full reinstatement!
13 But now I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I lay great stress on my ministry and magnify my office,
14 In the hope of making my fellow Jews jealous [in order to stir them up to imitate, copy, and appropriate], and thus managing to save some of them.
15 For if their rejection and exclusion from the benefits of salvation were [overruled] for the reconciliation of a world to God, what will their acceptance and admission mean? [It will be nothing short of] life from the dead!
16 Now if the first handful of dough offered as the firstfruits [Abraham and the patriarchs] is consecrated (holy), so is the whole mass [the nation of Israel]; and if the root [Abraham] is consecrated (holy), so are the branches. [Num. 15:19-21.]
17 But if some of the branches were broken off, while you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among them to share the richness [of the root and sap] of the olive tree,
18 Do not boast over the branches and pride yourself at their expense. If you do boast and feel superior, remember it is not you that support the root, but the root [that supports] you.
19 You will say then, Branches were broken (pruned) off so that I might be grafted in!
20 That is true. But they were broken (pruned) off because of their unbelief (their lack of real faith), and you are established through faith [because you do believe]. So do not become proud and conceited, but rather stand in awe and be reverently afraid.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches [because of unbelief], neither will He spare you [if you are guilty of the same offense].
22 Then note and appreciate the gracious kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s gracious kindness to you—provided you continue in His grace and abide in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off (pruned away).
23 And even those others [the fallen branches, Jews], if they do not persist in [clinging to] their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
24 For if you have been cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and against nature grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much easier will it be to graft these natural [branches] back on [the original parent stock of] their own olive tree.
Rom. 11:11–24

Paul also said that the things that happened to Israel in the Law and Prophets, happened to them for "our" admonition. As Examples for us not to lust after that they lusted after.

I believe the Exodus is a pattern of the journey of all human lives. Examples of what we deal with Spiritually in our hearts every day. The meaning of Faith, and the dangers which exist in the world God places us in, including the religions and religious sects therein.

From Passover and Feast of Unleavened bread to the Last Great Day, a map to the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness AKA, the Narrow Path.

 

[dwight92070]

The words in English do not mean what you assume you mean. Have you even investigated the language of the original text?

If there is an unclear passage or one of much controversy, then yes, I will look it up in the Strongs concordance or the Greek Interlinear for the definition in the Hebrew or in the Greek.
So you're basically saying that the translators mistranslated some words from the passages that I quoted. But you did not specify which word or words were mistranslated into the English language. Since you have investigated the original language, could you please identify that word or those words that are mistranslated and explain what the actual meaning is?

 

[charismaticlady]

What about the U.N. this week meeting to sign a 7 year agreement ?

Coincidence ?

Is everything happening now just a coincidence ?

Agreement to do what?

 

[dwight92070]

But he used all caps that must make it true.

Agreement to do what?

That's typical of dispensationalists. They say, "See, the U.N. is signing a 7 year agreement. There you go, is that just a coincidence?" Well now, if that happens to be synonymous with the 7 year tribulation, as you are implying (what other seven year period could you possibly be referring to?), then all of us believers will soon disappear, won't we? Let's just see if that happens. For the REAL rapture, you don't think that unbelievers on earth will physicalIy see us being caught up into the clouds? If they will see Jesus, and they will, they will also see us. If your secret rapture doesn't happen, will you then trash your 7 year tribulation theory? Again, Jesus never told us to watch and be ready to disappear, or for a 7 year agreement, but to watch and be ready for His 2nd coming, where every eye will see Him, and He will descend with a shout, and the voice of the archangel, and a trumpet, and we will be caught up (not disappear) into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air - the last day.
This type of "interpretation" on the part of dsp is sheer speculation, just as the secret rapture is and the 7 year tribulation, and the millennium.
By the way, Azriel, just for your benefit, I put one word in all caps, so you will know for certain that what I say must be true.