But either the ten commandments are gone, or not.
If any of the Old Covenant commands are repeated in the New Covenant, then they are binding upon the Christian.
But either the ten commandments are gone, or not.
first thanks for the reply, second, ERROR. and here's why. Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" Romans 2:15 "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one anotherHaving or not having the law refers to having physical possession of the oracles of God, or in other words, having possession of a physical Torah scroll.
KJV Luke 23:56If any of the Old Covenant commands are repeated in the New Covenant, then they are binding upon the Christian.
The beginning of the New Covenant began the same time as the beginning of the Church in Acts 2:4.KJV Luke 23:56
56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Question 1. Was the above before or after the new covenant was ratified?
Question 2. Who were these women?
Question 3. Was the Sabbath still a commandment at this time?
Supplementary question. If anyone was to be told that the Sabbath was no longer a commandment, surely it would have been these women...even if it were by the men warning them not to expect to be saved by their good work in observing the Sabbath the day before right?
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15If any of the Old Covenant commands are repeated in the New Covenant, then they are binding upon the Christian.
If Pentecost is as you say, the time of the establishment of the newThe beginning of the New Covenant began the same time as the beginning of the Church in Acts 2:4.
This is why they still used lots even in Acts 1:26 (cf. Proverbs 16:33), but nowhere do we read of them doing so afterwards.
Followers of Jesus.
Yes, that is why they did what they did in Luke 23:56.
This took place before the beginning of the NT Church (Acts 2:4).
I think you're right. In the first sentence of your post is What I've been taught. But when I end the rest of your post to that, Then it makes perfectly good sense. I think we just have to be careful not to carry it to the extreme like the Pharisees did. Otherwise on the Sabbath you couldn't turn on a light switch as that would be work. plus all the other Man-made rules that they added shouldn't apply to us as followers of Christ.If we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for everything else commanded in the Torah, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them. So they are all connected, which means that if you think that we should obey the greatest two commandments, then you should also think that we should obey the rest of the commandments in the Torah. Jesus was not asked about which were the only commandments that we should still follow, but about what the greatest commandment is, and the existence of the greatest two commandments implies that there are still other commandments that we should follow that are not the greatest two.
If Pentecost is as you say, the time of the establishment of the new10
9 Commandments, it was 40 days too late.
If you want to find evidence of a change in the covenant such as the abolition of the Sabbath, you must find it before Calvary.
Yes indeedHebrews 7:22
So much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
Hebrews 8:6
He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Hebrews 10:9
He taketh away the first, that He may establish the second.
Hebrews 9:16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." Hebrews 9:17 "For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." Hebrews 9:18 "Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood."it was 40 days too late. The covenant was ratified by the blood of the Lamb, 40 days before. From that time going forward, nothing and no-one, be it the church, Apostle, or Emperor, could alter it. The covenant once ratified is as a last will and testament...once the testator dies, that's it. Any change to the testament/covenant, is illegal, unlawful, invalid. All changes must be made prior to the death of the testator.
Yes. And whatever changes there were, took place at Calvary or before. Could not have lawfully taken place after. Any changes to any covenant after the death of the testator is fraud. The fact that the women honoured the Sabbath after Calvary is testament to the fact that the Sabbath was not changed by Jesus or the apostles. Any later changes by the church, as spoken of and referenced elsewhere in this thread and numerous others, whether by slow tradition over several centuries or as a legislated enactment by an emperor, they are fraudulent changes.Hebrews 9:16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." Hebrews 9:17 "For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." Hebrews 9:18 "Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood."
this is what the Gospels are all about, the changes in covenants.
101G.
The Torah is the foundation for the Brit Hadashah (New Covenant).That is contradictory because the New Covenant still involves following the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33).
The fact that the women honoured the Sabbath after Calvary is testament to the fact that the Sabbath was not changed by Jesus or the apostles.
Thanks for the reply, but 101G must disagree with you there. and here's why. did not the Lord JESUS heal on the sabbath? let's check the record. Matthew 12:10 "And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him." Matthew 12:11 "And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?" Matthew 12:12 "How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days." Matthew 12:13 "Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other."Yes. And whatever changes there were, took place at Calvary or before. Could not have lawfully taken place after. Any changes to any covenant after the death of the testator is fraud. The fact that the women honoured the Sabbath after Calvary is testament to the fact that the Sabbath was not changed by Jesus or the apostles. Any later changes by the church, as spoken of and referenced elsewhere in this thread and numerous others, whether by slow tradition over several centuries or as a legislated enactment by an emperor, they are fraudulent changes.
no, just read the bible and it will tell you just as my reply above just did.The only way around this is as the Catholic church claims. That they were given authority by Jesus Himself to change the very law of God according to their own sense of divine authority.
Why would any believer need to be reminded that murder, adultery, and theft or lying are bad things? Why would he think otherwise and need to be told again? Why repeat the obvious?If any of the Old Covenant commands are repeated in the New Covenant, then they are binding upon the Christian.
Why would any believer need to be reminded that murder, adultery, and theft or lying are bad things? Why would he think otherwise and need to be told again? Why repeat the obvious?
and to add with Fred's comment repetition is a Jewish Hebrew way of communicating an important subject or idea.Because it is a different covenant.
100% correct. did the NT say, sacrifice a Lamb for sin also? as brother Brakelite clearly stated, is not murder, adultery, and theft or lying is sin? so do we sin in the NT as in the OT? so do we kill a Lamb? so no, the OT Covenant is not the same as the NT covenant.Why would any believer need to be reminded that murder, adultery, and theft or lying are bad things? Why would he think otherwise and need to be told again? Why repeat the obvious?
We can do spiritual work on the Sabbath, just as Jesus did, yes. We can bring healing, hope, we can feed the hungry and visit those in prison, and preach the gospel. All good work that we can also do any time of the week, and should. Even helping helpless animals which are stuck in mud. "It is good to do well on Sabbath days".Thanks for the reply, but 101G must disagree with you there. and here's why. did not the Lord JESUS heal on the sabbath? let's check the record. Matthew 12:10 "And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him." Matthew 12:11 "And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?" Matthew 12:12 "How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days." Matthew 12:13 "Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other."
question time. "Did the Lord Jesus heal on other days beside the sabbath?". answer is YES, so the Sabbath was change, for every day in Christ is the sabbath. are one not at rest in Christ Jesus? for he doth the WORK, not us. so every day is a sabbath for the child of God.
no, just read the bible and it will tell you just as my reply above just did.
101G.