If any of the Old Covenant commands are repeated in the New Covenant, then they are binding upon the Christian.
Commandments of God
- Thread starter Jamie Russell CME
- Start date
If any of the Old Covenant commands are repeated in the New Covenant, then they are binding upon the Christian.
101G
Well-known member
first thanks for the reply, second, ERROR. and here's why. Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" Romans 2:15 "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
" yes, written in their HEARTS. HOW was this so? answer, Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"
if one do these things will fulfill your WRITTEN LAW. this is why Job, was OBEYING GOD LAW FRROM THE HEART, before Israel even became a Nation. this is why Moses father in Law was a PRIEST if God, while Israel was still in Bondage in Egypt before a priesthood was even formed to serve God in a temple, less alone in a TENT.
understand something, Gentile people was keeping God Law before ISRAEL became a Nation. no not all nations but many was.
understand Job was a "Son of God", and keeping the FEAST Day before ISRAEL became a Nation.
so there is nothing SPECIAL with or About ISRAEL than any other nation, except God just chose a Nation to show all the Other Nations who he was that strayed. and yes, even the Nation that was born out of Bondage even sinned and been sinning just like any other Nation. they JUST had the same Law written in stone, whereas all other had it in their hearts.
hope this helped.
101G
Brakelite
Active member
KJV Luke 23:56
56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Question 1. Was the above before or after the new covenant was ratified?
Question 2. Who were these women?
Question 3. Was the Sabbath still a commandment at this time?
Supplementary question. If anyone was to be told that the Sabbath was no longer a commandment, surely it would have been these women...even if it were by the men warning them not to expect to be saved by their good work in observing the Sabbath the day before right?
The beginning of the New Covenant began the same time as the beginning of the Church in Acts 2:4.
This is why they still used lots even in Acts 1:26 (cf. Proverbs 16:33), but nowhere do we read of them doing so afterwards.
Followers of Jesus.
Yes, that is why they did what they did in Luke 23:56.
This took place before the beginning of the NT Church (Acts 2:4).
mailmandan
Well-known member
1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding upon the Christian - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9 10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3
Brakelite
Active member
If Pentecost is as you say, the time of the establishment of the new
9 Commandments, it was 40 days too late. The covenant was ratified by the blood of the Lamb, 40 days before. From that time going forward, nothing and no-one, be it the church, Apostle, or Emperor, could alter it. The covenant once ratified is as a last will and testament...once the testator dies, that's it. Any change to the testament/covenant, is illegal, unlawful, invalid. All changes must be made prior to the death of the testator. That applies in law to day every much as it did in biblical times. If you want to find evidence of a change in the covenant such as the abolition of the Sabbath, you must find it before Calvary. Pentecost is too late.
Keoni
Member
I think you're right. In the first sentence of your post is What I've been taught. But when I end the rest of your post to that, Then it makes perfectly good sense. I think we just have to be careful not to carry it to the extreme like the Pharisees did. Otherwise on the Sabbath you couldn't turn on a light switch as that would be work. plus all the other Man-made rules that they added shouldn't apply to us as followers of Christ.
No, it wasn't. God's timing is perfect.
That's you standard, but the Bible teaches all of the Old Covenant has been abrogated in Hebrews 8:13.
civic
Well-known member
Yes indeed
Hebrews 8
3 Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. 4 If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. 5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” 6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said:
“The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[c]
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
101G
Well-known member
Hebrews 9:16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator." Hebrews 9:17 "For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth." Hebrews 9:18 "Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood."
this is what the Gospels are all about, the changes in covenants.
101G.
Brakelite
Active member
Yes. And whatever changes there were, took place at Calvary or before. Could not have lawfully taken place after. Any changes to any covenant after the death of the testator is fraud. The fact that the women honoured the Sabbath after Calvary is testament to the fact that the Sabbath was not changed by Jesus or the apostles. Any later changes by the church, as spoken of and referenced elsewhere in this thread and numerous others, whether by slow tradition over several centuries or as a legislated enactment by an emperor, they are fraudulent changes.
The only way around this is as the Catholic church claims. That they were given authority by Jesus Himself to change the very law of God according to their own sense of divine authority. What you have to decide is whether you think the Catholic church's authority is valid, or you think God's authority over His own laws are supreme. It is the Sabbath that is under scrutiny here. Is the Sabbath of the Lord thy Godstill a valid commandment, or is the Sunday of the Catholic church a valid commandment. Your choice.
koberstein
Active member
The Torah is the foundation for the Brit Hadashah (New Covenant).
Adonai provided guidance for his people and through them to all people. This instruction is known as Torah and is necessary for an accurate understanding of the rest of Scripture. Although Torah is usually translated as "law", it simply means "instruction" or "the way to go" Yeshua Hamashiach is the living Word who embodies the will of the father, and the Spirit guides his followers into all truth, enabling them to observe Adonai's instructions. In his teachings, Yeshua confirmed the importance of Torah by stating, "Don't think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete".
Mattityahu (Matthew) 5:17
Except that Hebrews 8:13 teaches otherwise.
Furthermore, is the casting of lots still valid today (cf. Acts 1:26)?
101G
Well-known member
Thanks for the reply, but 101G must disagree with you there. and here's why. did not the Lord JESUS heal on the sabbath? let's check the record. Matthew 12:10 "And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him." Matthew 12:11 "And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?" Matthew 12:12 "How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days." Matthew 12:13 "Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other."
question time. "Did the Lord Jesus heal on other days beside the sabbath?". answer is YES, so the Sabbath was change, for every day in Christ is the sabbath. are one not at rest in Christ Jesus? for he doth the WORK, not us. so every day is a sabbath for the child of God.
no, just read the bible and it will tell you just as my reply above just did.
101G.
Brakelite
Active member
Why would any believer need to be reminded that murder, adultery, and theft or lying are bad things? Why would he think otherwise and need to be told again? Why repeat the obvious?
Because it is a different covenant.
koberstein
Active member
and to add with Fred's comment repetition is a Jewish Hebrew way of communicating an important subject or idea.
101G
Well-known member
100% correct. did the NT say, sacrifice a Lamb for sin also? as brother Brakelite clearly stated, is not murder, adultery, and theft or lying is sin? so do we sin in the NT as in the OT? so do we kill a Lamb? so no, the OT Covenant is not the same as the NT covenant.
and as for things LIKE THE SABBATH, was it not changed also? yes. did not the Lord Jesus change the sabbath by healing on it? yes and was accused of violating the sabbath. but he fulfilled the sabbath, which means every day is the sabbath if ONE IS AT REST IN HIM.
101G.
Brakelite
Active member
We can do spiritual work on the Sabbath, just as Jesus did, yes. We can bring healing, hope, we can feed the hungry and visit those in prison, and preach the gospel. All good work that we can also do any time of the week, and should. Even helping helpless animals which are stuck in mud. "It is good to do well on Sabbath days".
But the commandment does not talk about such work, although you, like the Pharisees, would like to make it so. No, the Commandment is about secular labour. Working in the fields and factories. Driving trucks and unloading goods. Cooking and cleaning and mowing and trimming. The commandment literally says, you've got 6 days to do all that. But on the 7th, I want your undivided attention. Sure, do good stuff for others when necessary, but as far as the things of this world is concerned...STOP.
Similar threads
