Christendom's Trinity: Where Did It Come From?

[synergy]

Eric Chang gave the above as an example from his book : The Only True God: A Study of Biblical Monotheism when he was speaking of the Trinitarian use of double-talk. I posted an excerpt from his book on the thread The Trinity and it's supporting doctrines are all circular in reasoning.

Here's what he said in regard to Jesus dying. "Let us take one fundamentally important point as an example. One thing which is stated with great frequency about Jesus is the fact of his atoning death. But if Jesus is God, he cannot die; if he can die, he is not God; for one fundamental truth about God in the Bible is that He is eternal, everlasting, and immortal (Dt. 33:27; Ps. 90:2, etc.); there is absolutely no question about this where the Bible is concerned. Paul speaks of God as the One "who alone has immortality" (1 Tim. 6:16). Everything else will pass away, but God abides forever, His "years have no end" (Ps. 102: 25-27).
So trinitarianism is face with the question: how can Jesus did and yet be God? To this there is no other answer than to say: Jesus died as man, but not as God. This is the inevitable double-talk. What then about the trinitarian creed as stated at Chalcedon: "One Christ in two nature (notice how God is spoken of in terms of "nature") united in one person ... without division, without separation"? Obviously, this dogma is simply impossible to sustain in the light of the Biblical revelation of God."
(The Only True God: A Study of Biblical Monotheism, pg. 80)

[Author Eric Chang ---- First as a divinity student and later as a pastor, Chang had been a staunch trinitarian for several decades, having done much to promote trinitarianism in his teaching and preaching. But around 2005, through a restudy of the Bible, he began to question his own trinitarian perspective on things such as the deity of Christ, concluding that it is not supported by the biblical data.]

The standard definition of death is separation of body and soul. Do you agree or do you have your own definition?

 

[amazing grace]

The standard definition of death is separation of body and soul. Do you agree or do you have your own definition?

The standard definition of death is being DEAD - the end of life. What you presented originated from Greek philosophy.
Is that how you separate Jesus, the man and Jesus, aka God?

 

[synergy]

The standard definition of death is being DEAD - the end of life. What you presented originated from Greek philosophy.
Is that how you separate Jesus, the man and Jesus, aka God?

Scripture speaks of ongoing conscious existence after death (e.g., Luke 16:19–31), which cannot be reduced to simple nonexistence. Jesus is not into fairy tales. So the biblical definition is much more richer and more nuanced than your modern idea of death as mere annihilation, and it stands on its own textual foundation rather than borrowing from Greek thought.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I'm not cherry picking. There's no verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.

Not one verse that actually says Jesus is a god-man.
Not one verse that actually says we must believe Jesus is God.
Not one verse that actually says we must believe God is three persons.
Not one verse out of approximately 31,102 Bible verses that says God is Triune.
Not one verse that actually says Jesus is both 100 percent God and 100 percent man.
Not one verse that actually says Jesus is God because if it's that important of a doctrine it should have been plainly and clearly taught by someone somewhere.

“‘Not one verse’ is a smokescreen. The Bible often teaches truth by the whole of its witness, not by one neatly packaged sentence.

Jesus is called God → John 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Titus 2:13

Jesus has God’s attributes → eternal (John 8:58), creator (Colossians 1:16), sustainer (Hebrews 1:3)

Jesus receives worship → Matthew 14:33, Revelation 5:12–14

Yet there is one God → Deuteronomy 6:4

And the Father, Son, and Spirit are all identified as divine → Matthew 28:19, 2 Corinthians 13:14

Put it together and you get exactly what you’re denying: one God, three persons.


Demanding one verse that says ‘God is triune’ is like demanding one verse that says ‘the Bible is 66 books.’ It’s a category mistake.”

“Your argument would also ‘disprove’ the canon of Scripture, the two natures of Christ, and even the word ‘monotheism’.......because none of those appear in a single proof-text either. Truth isn’t limited to your preferred wording; it’s established by what Scripture as a whole teaches

"And the word came to humanity and dwelt in us..."

John 1:14 (The Compatible Translation)

YHWH’s word came to humanity through Jesus. His Prime Directive was

to have His word dwell in believers to transform them.

The Holy Bible Septuagint LXX​

Unaltered English Word-for-Word from Interlinear Greek

LXX...

John 1:14 And the word became flesh, and tented among us, and we saw his glory, glory as an only child of the father, full of favor and truth.

 

[amazing grace]

Scripture speaks of ongoing conscious existence after death (e.g., Luke 16:19–31), which cannot be reduced to simple nonexistence. Jesus is not into fairy tales. So the biblical definition is much more richer and more nuanced than your modern idea of death as mere annihilation, and it stands on its own textual foundation rather than borrowing from Greek thought.

Death is the absence of life.
Scripture speaks of death using the analogy of 'sleep'.
Ecclesiastes says the 'dead know nothing'.
If as you say the dead are conscious - wouldn't they be praising God? Psalm 115:17 says 'the dead praise not the LORD'.
Ps. 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?”
Ps. 30:9 “What profit is there in my death, if I go down to the pit? Will the dust praise you? Will it tell of your faithfulness?”
Isaiah 26:19 “Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead.” The dead are now in the dust awaiting the resurrection.
Ezekiel 37:12 “Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel.”
There are many verses about the dead, being dead, being asleep in scripture but nothing about a conscious existence.