Are we told to worship Jesus or are we told to worship God?

[MatthewG]

@Johann why do you deny Jesus and his admission for the Father to be worshipped? Jesuss Father was the God of Israel, and the Son of God said he looks for those who seek to worship him in spirit and truth.

Ive shared it many times with you and you dont say he is right or anything. You just post other peoples content, and dont answer for yourself.

 

[Johann]

@Johann why do you deny Jesus and his admission for the Father to be worshipped? Jesuss Father was the God of Israel, and the Son of God said he looks for those who seek to worship him in spirit and truth.

Ive shared it many times with you and you dont say he is right or anything. You just post other peoples content, and dont answer for yourself.

I have answered-biblically-but you don't read.

 

[MatthewG]

I have answered-biblically-but you don't read.

Most of the content you post is not addressed to the sources, its mostly people who quoted on scripture unless it is your own work which you can vouch for. You havent answered anything.

Jesus said it.

Do you care that Jesus made this apparent?

Or Do you just desire to fight against that there is no scripture thay says Jesus is to be worshipped.

God is. Yahweh, Yahava, Jehovah as some say. Is the very name of God to some extent to the other. Yahweh, send his Word, and this is why its important to distingush. The Word became Flesh, and was named Jesus, and was named Immanuel and after overcoming all things he sat with his Father in His throne becoming the Lord God Almighty,

There is no scripture that I know of that says “and Jesus said worship me!” Youll find he says, to Worship the LORD your God (Yahweh), with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[Johann]

Most of the content you post is not addressed to the sources, its mostly people who quoted on scripture unless it is your own work which you can vouch for. You havent answered anything.

Jesus said it.

Do you care that Jesus made this apparent?

Or Do you just desire to fight against that there is no scripture thay says Jesus is to be worshipped.

God is. Yahweh, Yahava, Jehovah as some say. Is the very name of God to some extent to the other. Yahweh, send his Word, and this is why its important to distingush. The Word became Flesh, and was named Jesus, and was named Immanuel and after overcoming all things he sat with his Father in His throne becoming the Lord God Almighty,

There is no scripture that I know of that says “and Jesus said worship me!” Youll find he says, to Worship the LORD your God (Yahweh), with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul, and love your neighbor as yourself.

I'll let the elders on this Forum correct you.
Hebrews 1:6
Verse Concepts
And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,
“And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Philippians 2:10
Verse Concepts
so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

Matthew 14:33
Verse Concepts
And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God’s Son!”

Matthew 2:2
Verse Concepts
“Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”

Worship means “reverence paid to a divine being.” If Jesus was offered and accepted worship, then by doing so He was confirming His divinity. This is important because there are those who deny the deity of Christ, relegating Him instead to a lesser position than God. Yes, Jesus accepted worship. As the second Person of the Trinity, He was and still is worshiped.

From the beginning of Jesus’ life, we see examples of Him being worshiped. As soon as the Magi laid eyes on the infant Christ, “they bowed down and worshiped Him” (Matthew 2:11). The Bible records the initial response Jesus received when He made His triumphal entry into Jerusalem: “So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying out, ‘Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!’” (Matthew 21:9; John 12:13) The word hosanna is a plea for salvation and an expression of adoration. This word used by the crowd is definitely a form of worship.

Just after Jesus amazed the disciples by walking on water, “those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God’” (Matthew 14:33). Two more memorable examples of Jesus accepting worship occurred just after His resurrection. Some of the women (Matthew 28:8-9; Mark 16:1; Luke 24:10) were on their way to tell the disciples of the resurrection when Jesus met them on their way. When they realized it was He, they “came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him” (Matthew 28:9).

Then there is the case of Thomas, who didn’t believe Jesus had risen from the dead despite the other disciples’ testifying to that fact. It had been about a week since the resurrection, and Thomas still doubted it. Jesus, knowing Thomas doubted, appeared to him and showed him the nail marks in His hands and feet and the wound in His side. How did Thomas respond? “Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” (John 20:28). In none of these instances do we see Jesus telling those worshiping Him to stop, as did mere men and even angels who were being worshiped wrongly by others (Acts 10:25–26; Revelation 19:9–10).

We continue to offer worship to Jesus today by offering ourselves to Him as a living sacrifice—offering ourselves to God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to do with as He sees fit (Romans 12:1–2). Jesus said, “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24). We worship God in spirit and truth by obedience to His commands. Worship is not solely about bowing to Jesus, throwing palm branches at His feet, or singing and shouting about our love for Him. Worship is about knowing Him, communing with Him, serving Him, and trusting in Him.
Got?

 

[MatthewG]

Angels worshiped Him, but are humans told to? I have still never seen a text that says “Jesus said worship, Him.”

What are all the defintions for worship anyway? Have you checked? I havent in awhile @Johann.


Jesus does state his Father (Yahweh) seeks those to worship Him in spirit and truth.

 

[Johann]

Angels worshiped Him, but are humans told to? I have still never seen a text that says “Jesus said worship, Him.”

What do you think-Jesus not worthy of worship?
I have given you references that Messiah is worshipped-Present Tense-by the redeemed.

 

[MatthewG]

What do you think-Jesus not worthy of worship?
I have given you references that Messiah is worshipped-Present Tense-by the redeemed.

Jesus is my Lord and King. He died for all the world. The holy spirit of God, rose him up from the dead. To pick up the cross and follow him, is what is at stake; to live by the flesh and die or to live by the spirit in faith is the choice abiding in Christ. He was God with them, by what was within his flesh and not his flesh itself.

People can worship jesus by the Flesh and that is not a biblical factor pertaining to worshipping God in spirit and in truth.

@Johann
If Jesus was wrong about that it was right to worship His Father, and never claimed or demanded worship from others (that being other human beings while alive on earth), I dont believe I am wrong for accept Jesus for his word, in seeking to worship Yahava, his Father, in spirit and in truth.

That is also highly important.

 

[Johann]

Jesus is my Lord and King. He died for all the world. To pick up the cross and follow him, is what is at stake; to live by the flesh and die or to live by the spirit in faith is the choice abiding in Christ. He was God with them, by what was within his flesh and not his flesh itself.

People can worship jesus by the Flesh and that is not a biblical factor pertaining to worshipping God in spirit and in truth.

@Johann
If Jesus was wrong about that it was right to worship His Father, and never claimed or demanded worship from others (that being other human beings while alive on earth), I dont believe I am wrong for accept Jesus for his word, in seeking to worship Yahava, his Father, in spirit and in truth.

That is also highly important.

Rom 14:11 For it has been written, As I live, says the Lord, that to me [shall bend every knee], and every tongue shall make acknowledgment to God.
As: Num_14:21, Num_14:28; Isa_49:18; Jer_22:24; Eze_5:11; Zep_2:9
every knee: Psa_72:11; Isa_45:22-25; Php_2:10; Rev_5:14
confess: Rom_10:9, Rom_15:9; Mat_10:32; 1Jn_4:15; 2Jn_1:7

Rom_14:9 — “that he might be Lord birth of the dead and living” - Comments - Jesus is Lord of all things in heaven, earth and under earth (Php_2:9-11). Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess Jesus as Lord to the glory of God the Father. Jesus is Lord of those spiritually dead, and these dead also will confess Him as Lord one day.
Php_2:9-11, “Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Lord (Kurios). Peter (Act_2:36) claimed that God made Christ “Lord.” See also 1Co_8:6; 1Co_12:3; Rom_10:9. Kennedy laments that the term Lord has become one of the most lifeless in the Christian vocabulary, whereas it really declares the true character and dignity of Jesus Christ and “is the basis and the object of worship.”


You agree?

 

[MatthewG]

That bible is packed jammed of good things. I believe that those scriptures have merit for believers edification. I believe that Jesus is Lord, and the Word of God was in the flesh of Jesus and the Holy spirit of God also helped Jesus in his flesh that he would not falter under temptation and sin.

 

[Johann]

Jesus is my Lord and King. He died for all the world. To pick up the cross and follow him, is what is at stake; to live by the flesh and die or to live by the spirit in faith is the choice abiding in Christ. He was God with them, by what was within his flesh and not his flesh itself.

People can worship jesus by the Flesh and that is not a biblical factor pertaining to worshipping God in spirit and in truth.

@Johann
If Jesus was wrong about that it was right to worship His Father, and never claimed or demanded worship from others (that being other human beings while alive on earth), I dont believe I am wrong for accept Jesus for his word, in seeking to worship Yahava, his Father, in spirit and in truth.

That is also highly important.

Rom 14:11 For it has been written, As I live, says the Lord, that to me [shall bend every knee], and every tongue shall make acknowledgment to God.
As: Num_14:21, Num_14:28; Isa_49:18; Jer_22:24; Eze_5:11; Zep_2:9
every knee: Psa_72:11; Isa_45:22-25; Php_2:10; Rev_5:14
confess: Rom_10:9, Rom_15:9; Mat_10:32; 1Jn_4:15; 2Jn_1:7

Rom_14:9 — “that he might be Lord birth of the dead and living” - Comments - Jesus is Lord of all things in heaven, earth and under earth (Php_2:9-11). Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess Jesus as Lord to the glory of God the Father. Jesus is Lord of those spiritually dead, and these dead also will confess Him as Lord one day.
Php_2:9-11, “Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

 

[MatthewG]

Rom 14:11 For it has been written, As I live, says the Lord, that to me [shall bend every knee], and every tongue shall make acknowledgment to God.
As: Num_14:21, Num_14:28; Isa_49:18; Jer_22:24; Eze_5:11; Zep_2:9
every knee: Psa_72:11; Isa_45:22-25; Php_2:10; Rev_5:14
confess: Rom_10:9, Rom_15:9; Mat_10:32; 1Jn_4:15; 2Jn_1:7

Rom_14:9 — “that he might be Lord birth of the dead and living” - Comments - Jesus is Lord of all things in heaven, earth and under earth (Php_2:9-11). Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess Jesus as Lord to the glory of God the Father. Jesus is Lord of those spiritually dead, and these dead also will confess Him as Lord one day.
Php_2:9-11, “Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

That is wonderful, this still doesnt answer the question I had asked you. Will you finally answer on it?

 

[Johann]

That is wonderful, this still doesnt answer the question I had asked you. Will you finally answer on it?

"God highly exalted Him"
This is an allusion to the Septuagint (LXX) translation of Isa. 52:13. The intensified form of the term huperupsoō is found only here in the NT and rarely in secular Greek. . This was not adoptionist Christology, which asserted that Jesus was rewarded with deity. Jesus was restored to divine pre-existent glory (cf. Eph. 4:10). In John's Gospel Jesus' death is referred to as His glorification (cf. Phil. 7:39; 12:16,23; 13:31-32; 16:14; 17:1). The humble servant is now King of Kings!

"and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name" This special exalted name is "Lord" (cf. Phil. 2:11). The verb (echarisato) in Phil. 2:9 means "graciously given" as in Phil. 1:29. The term "Lord" is an allusion to the OT covenant name for God, YHWH (cf. Exod. 3:14; 6:3), which the Jews were afraid to pronounce lest they break one of the Ten Commandments (cf. Exod. 20:7; Deut. 5:11). Therefore, they substituted the name Adon, which meant Lord, owner, husband. Jesus, who came in the form of a servant, was returned to His cosmic Lordship (cf. John 17:5; Col. 1:15-20). "Jesus is Lord" was the public, personal confession of faith for the early Church (cf. Rom. 10:9; 1 Cor. 8:6; 12:3). Jesus of Nazareth is given the supreme title of Deity (cf. Eph. 1:21 and Heb. 1:4). See Special Topic: Names For Deity at Col. 1:3.

2:10 "every knee should bow of those who are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth" One day everyone will acknowledge Jesus as Lord. The only question is whether they will do it in time by faith, and thereby become a part of the family of God, or do it on the Day of the Lord and be judged by Him (cf. Matt. 25:31-48; Rev. 20:11-15).

The parallel phrases in this verse refer to angels, both free and bound and humans, both living and dead. All conscious creatures shall acknowledge Jesus' Lordship, but only humans can be redeemed. Verses 10-11 seem to be an allusion to Isa. 45:23, which is quoted in Rom. 14:11. In its original context it was the worship of YHWH that has now been transferred to the Messiah (cf. John 5:23). The transfer of titles and functions between YHWH and Jesus is another way the NT authors assert the full deity of Jesus.

2:11 "and every tongue should confess" This is an aorist middle subjunctive (used as future, some MSS have the future, i.e., A, C, D, F, G) of exomologeō which acknowledges the fact that public, verbal acknowledgment of the lordship of Christ will be an end-time reality. This acknowledgment of Jesus' Lordship was an early profession of faith (i.e., baptismal liturgy). Paul used this term as he used several OT quotes from the Septuagint (cf. Phil. 2:11 and Rom. 14:11 from Isa. 45:23 and Rom. 15:9 from Ps. 18:49. Also the related term homologeō in Rom. 10:13 from Joel 2:37).



"to the glory of God the Father" The worship of Jesus is the purpose of God the Father in sending Him. This phrase "to the glory of God" relates to believers' lifestyle in Phil. 1:11 and here in Phil. 2:11 for their salvation, brought through the work of Christ. This same key phrase is used three times in Paul's prayer of praise to the triune God in Eph. 1:3-14. Ultimately Jesus will turn all power, authority, and praise over to the Father to whom it belongs (cf. 1 Cor. 15:27-28). See full note on "glory" at Eph. 1:6.

I have answered your question, numerous times @MatthewG

 

[MatthewG]

No you havent, my friend.

You avoid answering directly.

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus states that the Father in heaven is looking for those to worship the Father and truth. While there is nothing wrong with giving praise and honor to the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ. Its important to know the our fellowship is with the Father and the Son. The Father is the one whom recieves the glory for praising the Son, for all that he has overcome, allowing him to sit on the seat of his throne. I dont see anywhere in scripture where a person is told to worship Jesus, but God, who is the God of Israel, Yahweh.

Again, the way to worship the Father is exactly the same as the way to worship the Son, so there is no difference between specifying that what we are doing is worshiping the Father, that it is worshiping the Son, or if we don't specify which one we are worshiping.

 

[MatthewG]

Again, the way to worship the Father is exactly the same as the way to worship the Son, so there is no difference between specifying that what we are doing is worshiping the Father, that it is worshiping the Son, or if we don't specify which one we are worshiping.

Jesus made it clear, so to me its right to follow what he says, all while seeing it being The Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit from God that indwells you and through abiding in Christ you will perform the works God desires you to do.

While Jesus is seen as equal to the Father he is not above the Father, and I believe that is important.

Do you see it as important or not? Many people just say God; but God does have a name, Yahweh. Is Gods name important? Is it important to Jesus who you worship?

He seems to have made it clear but everyone is doing all they can to say we are to worship Jesus?

What does it mean to worship anyway?

 

[MatthewG]

Everyone who claims we must worship Jesus, distinctly goes against what Jesus said himself.

And that is confusing to me.

John 4:23-24 New King James Version (NKJV)But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.

Dont you listen to the things Jesus says, or just dismiss them?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Here is one Bible verse, in the very last chapter of the Revelation which to me was one of the final works finished by John the beloved that sent out before Yeshua had returned, and it states,

Revelation 22:9 But he said, “No, don’t worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers the prophets, as well as all who obey what is written in this book. Worship only God!”

Revelation 22:9 and he saith to me, 'See -- not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.'

Which in turn reminds me of Revelation 4.

Which brings up the question, who was God to Jesus (by a fleshly manner)? He called him his Father.

Matthew 6:5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the [a]hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you [b]openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

Rev 22:9 wasn't Jesus talking.

 

[Wrangler]

Christ is worthy of admiration.

Not the question under discussion.

 

[Wrangler]

I find it problematic that you and @Studyman would think Jesus Christ is not to be worshipped-

It is your personal objection but again, not the question of this thread.

 

[Wrangler]

Rev 22:9 wasn't Jesus talking.

Nonetheless. Jesus is a servant OF God, whiich proves he is NOT God. Acts 3:13 informs us explicitly that Jesus is God’s servant. Such language is not used to mean one is a servant of themselves.