"Are The Twelve apostles...

[Grace ambassador]

...In The Body Of Christ?

In this article, we will ask the question, “Are the twelve apostles in the body
of Christ?” It is important here for the reader to understand that this question
is not whether the twelve apostles were saved or lost.

Rather, the question pertains to whether the twelve apostles were transferred
into the body of Christ when the new dispensation was revealed to Paul, or
whether they remained a part of Israel’s kingdom program.

A third alternative is that they obtained sort of a “dual hope,” receiving the
benefits and blessings of both the kingdom program and the dispensation of
Grace.

To some, the question itself may seem irrelevant or even ridiculous, much like
the proverbial debates of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
But before examining the Evidence of Scripture on the subject, let us first show
the importance of the issue.

It certainly would not matter to us whether God chose to place the twelve
apostles into the body or not. God can do as He pleases, and it would not
affect the wonderful blessings of Grace which we enjoy as members of the
body of Christ.

However, seeing the twelve apostles (and all kingdom saints living at the time)
as part of the body of Christ raises HUGE questions with regard to their teachings
and writings.

For example, if Peter was added to the body of Christ after the dispensation of
Grace was revealed to Paul, are we to take Peter’s epistles as instructions to the
body of Christ?

Are we to understand that Peter is telling the body of Christ that we are “a
royal priesthood, (and) an holy nation” (1 Peter 2:9a)? If so, what “nation” are
we? And how does Peter’s statement that “baptism doth also now save us”
(1 Peter 3:21a) square with Paul’s affirmation that Christ sent him “not to
baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Cor. 1:17a)?

And with regard to the return of Christ, Peter has his readers “Looking for and
hastening unto the coming day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall
be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat” (2 Peter 3:12),
whereas Paul tells us to be

“Looking for that Blessed Hope, and The Glorious Appearing of ​

The Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13).​

...The two positions regarding this question are known as the “twelve in” and the
“twelve-out” positions. In answering the question of whether the twelve apostles
were added to the body of Christ we will present Scriptural Evidence..."

[in the 'link' below, ending with:]

"...one final question: If it was God’s plan to transfer the twelve apostles into
the body of Christ when Israel rejected the kingdom offer, and then
use them to teach, instruct, and write to the body of Christ in their
epistles, WHY DID GOD RAISE UP THE APOSTLE PAUL?
"
(J Finck)

FULL study:

Are The Twelve apostles In The Body Of Christ?

 

[JD731]

Are The Twelve apostles In The Body Of Christ?

The answer is "yes."

Some logic and reasoning from this epistle;

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The household of God is another name for the family of God, which is the church of Jesus Christ, his body. Another question, what is the relationship of Jesus Christ to this body? We have this;

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Being the head, and firstborn son of God from the dead, (of which there have been an untold number since) and the beginning of the building means that every other section of the building after this is also part of the building. So, one looks at the church of Jesus Christ as a "building" with the trinitarian signature, which is the chief cornerstone, then the foundation, then the framework. When it is finished it will be corporately the habitat of the Spirit of God. Jesus Christ, the apostles and prophets, and all those who are born again of the Spirit, both Jews & gentiles, by faith in their eye witness testimony. Three parts. It does not matter how one looks at the church of Jesus Christ, he will see the trinitarian image.

When the door of faith was opened to the gentiles by Peter in Acts 10, to whom BTW, Jesus had given the keys in Matt 16,

The salvation of the first gentiles:
Acts 11:12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man’s house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Notice the church has its beginning at Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was sent down from God from heaven to indwell Jews who believed the gospel of Christ.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

The apostles occupied a distinct and special part in the body of Christ, but they were without doubt a part of the structure of the church of Jesus Christ, according to the scriptures.

Ac 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The church was in existence before Paul was saved.

Ac 8:3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison.

This is my understanding of the answer to the question and the scriptural reasoning and logical conclusion from the words.

 

[JD731]

Notice all the pronouns in the first 12 verses.
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

The number 12 is always a figure of God's perfect government. Knowing this is important in understanding this epistle. There is going to be a break or a division, a pivot, beginning in verse 13. This is a number associated with transgression, over stepping the law. Gentiles are known as transgressors, hence it is contextually a gentile reference and a reference to the second group of two groups mentioned in the first verse of this chapter 1, the faithful in Christ Jesus. The first group mentioned is the saints. These two groups are distinct, yet equal and one in the body of Christ throughout this epistle.

What I have underlined is the explanation of those being addressed in these first 12 verses. It is the saints which are at Ephesus. These are those of the physical linage of Abraham through Jacob, those saved ones of Judah as opposed to those who were dispersed from the land of Israel in 722 BC by the Assyrians and are said of God from that time, ye are not my people. Notice how Paul addresses them in chapter 2.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Now, they were aliens FROM the commonwealth of Israel in time past, not aliens among the commonwealth of Israel. And they were strangers from the covenant promises. Because of this they had been cut off from the covenants and in this condition had no hope and they were without God in the world.

One needs to read this prophesy of Hosea to the northern kingdom of Israel to identify these saints.
Ho 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah (name means no mercy): for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi (not my people): for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

In order for one to be a son of God a new birth is required. No one could be born again until Jesus came and washed away their sins. God is keeping his promise to these people.

Peter addressed these same people in the same local. Here is what he said in his letters;

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia (Ephesus was the chief city in this province), and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

These strangers to whom he addressed his letter were the saved among these people. God had foreknown that he would save them through Christ and make them sons of God by giving them the Spirit of Christ.

James addressed these same people like this:
Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Paul, a Benjamite (Rom 11:1-2) was born in Tarsus, a city of the province of Cappadocia.

God opened up the door to gentiles salvation, through a European, an Italian (Acts 10), thus creating the way for having mercy upon these to whom he had cut off mercy and had counted as gentiles, dead, and separated from God for these centuries. In the passages where God is showing mercy where there was not mercy, one must immediately think of these ten scattered tribes of Israel.

Ro 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
25 As he saith also in Osee (Hosea) I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Dear reader, try to process this information in a prophetical and historical and literal and dispensational context.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, (a nation that is scattered as strangers into others lands 1 Pe 1:1) a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

This saying of Jesus is why all these things are important to get right; It was because Jesus came into the world to fulfill all prophesy, This generation of Jews and strangers had the distinct responsibility to receive their messiah and to fulfill the covenants of the OT and to embrace the New Testament. This would be the 70 year generation of Jesus Christ in which these people lived during which there was a pivot from the dead letter of the law unto life in Jesus Christ. See Psalms 90:10.

Lu 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. (read context). The only thing that curtailed Jesus returning at the end of this generation in 70 AD is unbelief.

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Read the whole context. The author is not speaking to individuals, but collectively to a people called the Hebrews. See in chapter 3 why Jesus did not return in 70 AD. It was 40 years from the cross and resurrection of Jesus Christ to their losing their national status and their land in AD 70 and began their existence as gentiles in far off lands. It was because of the unbelief of this generation.

The 40 year probation for Judah and Israel was almost up when Romans was written in 58 AD, and Ephesians was written in 60 AD, and when Hebrews was written in circa 64 AD.

God will keep every national promise to Israel, but not in this dispensation or age for the reasons the scriptures have defined.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

There is absolutely no way to know in exactly which year those letters were written. If you want to know the audience of the letters, read the introductions.

 

[JD731]

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 Grace be to you (the saints and the faithful - you is plural), and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who (God the father) hath blessed us (the saints ) with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he (God the Father) hath chosen us (the saints) in him (Christ) before the foundation of the world, that we (the saints) should be holy and without blame before him (God the Father) in love:
5 Having predestinated us (the saints) unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself (God the Father), according to the good pleasure of his (God the Father's) will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his (God the Father's) grace, wherein he (God the Father) hath made us (the saints) accepted in the beloved (Jesus Christ).
7 In whom (Jesus Christ) we (the saints) have redemption through his (Jesus Christ's) blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his (God the Father's) grace;
8 Wherein (Christ Jesus) he (God the Father) hath abounded toward us (the saints) in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us (the saints) the mystery of his (God the Father's) will, according to his (God the Father's) good pleasure which he (God the Father) hath purposed in himself (God the Father):
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he (God the Father) might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him (Christ):
11 In whom (Christ) also we (the saints) have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him (God the Father) who worketh all things after the counsel of his (God the Father's) own will:
12 That we (the saints) should be to the praise of his (God the Father's) glory, who (the saints) first trusted in Christ.

Ro 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Ro 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Ro 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Notice the transition in the language beginning in verse 13 with the pronouns. He begins to direct his comments to the second group, the faithful in Christ Jesus. Remember the time frame. The door of faith was opened to gentiles in Acts 10 and in 40 AD. This Ephesians is written 20 years later and the history of the inclusion of the gentiles is being explained as a mystery. It is called the mystery of Christ and defined in Eph 3:6. He is going to start using words like "also" "together" and he is going to omit the "we" and only use the "ye" in certain verses where he wants to make a definite application to what he is saying to only one of the two groups in this epistle. Look here;

Eph 1:13 In whom (Christ) ye (this is a singular pronoun and means the faithful) also (additionally) trusted, after that ye (the faithful) heard the word of truth, the gospel of your (not ours but yours, still making the distinction) salvation: in whom (Christ) also (see V 11) after that ye (the faithful in context) believed, ye (the faithful) were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

The "ye" are identified as gentiles in Eph 2:11;

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

Paul wants us to know that the Jews were first to believe the gospel of Christ and makes a difference between them and the strangers and foreigners and how they become afterward fellowcitizens with them and of the household of God.

One must rightly divided the word of truth with the help of the Spirit. There is much more to this epistle but I am out of time for it now.

 

[Complete]

...In The Body Of Christ?​

​

In this article, we will ask the question, “Are the twelve apostles in the body​

of Christ?” It is important here for the reader to understand that this question​

is not whether the twelve apostles were saved or lost.​

​

Rather, the question pertains to whether the twelve apostles were transferred​

into the body of Christ when the new dispensation was revealed to Paul, or​

whether they remained a part of Israel’s kingdom program.​

​

A third alternative is that they obtained sort of a “dual hope,” receiving the​

benefits and blessings of both the kingdom program and the dispensation of​

Grace.​

​

To some, the question itself may seem irrelevant or even ridiculous, much like​

the proverbial debates of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.​

But before examining the Evidence of Scripture on the subject, let us first show​

the importance of the issue.​

​

It certainly would not matter to us whether God chose to place the twelve​

apostles into the body or not. God can do as He pleases, and it would not​

affect the wonderful blessings of Grace which we enjoy as members of the​

body of Christ.​

​

However, seeing the twelve apostles (and all kingdom saints living at the time)​

as part of the body of Christ raises HUGE questions with regard to their teachings​

and writings.​

​

For example, if Peter was added to the body of Christ after the dispensation of​

Grace was revealed to Paul, are we to take Peter’s epistles as instructions to the​

body of Christ?​

​

Are we to understand that Peter is telling the body of Christ that we are “a​

royal priesthood, (and) an holy nation” (1 Peter 2:9a)? If so, what “nation” are​

we? And how does Peter’s statement that “baptism doth also now save us”​

(1 Peter 3:21a) square with Paul’s affirmation that Christ sent him “not to​

baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Cor. 1:17a)?​

​

And with regard to the return of Christ, Peter has his readers “Looking for and​

hastening unto the coming day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall​

be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat” (2 Peter 3:12),​

whereas Paul tells us to be​

​

“Looking for that Blessed Hope, and The Glorious Appearing of ​

The Great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13).​

​

...The two positions regarding this question are known as the “twelve in” and the​

“twelve-out” positions. In answering the question of whether the twelve apostles​

were added to the body of Christ we will present Scriptural Evidence..." ​

​

[in the 'link' below, ending with:]​

​

"...one final question: If it was God’s plan to transfer the twelve apostles into​

the body of Christ when Israel rejected the kingdom offer, and then​

use them to teach, instruct, and write to the body of Christ in their​

epistles, WHY DID GOD RAISE UP THE APOSTLE PAUL?​

​

(J Finck)​

​

FULL study:​

​

Are The Twelve apostles In The Body Of Christ?

'How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation;
which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord,
and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him;
God also bearing them witness,
both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles,
and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to His Own will?'
(Heb 2:3-4)

Hello @Grace ambassador,

The Scriptures show that there are three spheres of future blessing for the redeemed to occupy:-

(1) ‘The earth’ (Matt. 5:5) - [The Kingdom].
(2) ‘Jerusalem which is above’ (Gal. 4:26) - [The Bride].
(3) ‘In heavenly places’ (Eph. 1:3) - [The Body].

* The Twelve will sit on thrones with the risen Christ, and judge the twelve tribes of Israel during the Lord's millennial reign. While on earth, following the death of their Saviour and Lord, they preached the same message as that which was preached by Him, 'Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand'. That identifies their place of future blessing, which is upon the new earth.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Fred]

Are The Twelve apostles In The Body Of Christ?

I say, "yes."

The body of Christ = The church
Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for His body's sake, which is the church.

The apostles were already part of the church (the body of Christ) even before Paul was converted (Acts 5:11; 8:1, 3).

 

[101G]

The answer is "yes."

100% correct. for the apostles received the Holy Spirit before Pentecost, only empowered by him on Pentecost. supportive scripture, John 20:19 "Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you." John 20:20 "And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord." John 20:21 "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you." John 20:22 "And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:"

and the apostle Paul received the Holy Spirit after Ananias baptized him in Damascus.

and the apostle Paul made it clear. Colossians 1:12 "Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:" Colossians 1:13 "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:"

101G.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No. The twelve apostles are of Israel, the natural Olive tree.

 

[101G]

No. The twelve apostles are of Israel, the natural Olive tree.

the NATURAL OLIVE TREE is not ISRAEL, but of God, (Spiritual), which, (for your flesh sake), are Jews and Gentiles/the WHOLE WORLD who answered God call, are the Branches.

now read Romans chapter 11 and please post the verse where it say the BRANCHES are Jewish and Gentile.

101G.

 

[JD731]

No. The twelve apostles are of Israel, the natural Olive tree.

All of the first members of the body of Christ, the church, were of Israel in the beginning of it's formation during the apostolic era. Not a single gentile was a member until Cornelius in Acts 10. That was in the year 40 AD. The Acts is the historical record of the post resurrection ministry of Jesus Christ through his apostles and prophets to whom he had given his Spirit and authority to bind and loose sins as they ministered to Israel first and then later to the gentiles. This history is recorded in John 20 and it happened at the end of the same day that Jesus Christ our Lord resurrected from the dead. One must believe the words of John in his chapter 20 of his gospel before he is equipped to believe any words that records the history of anything that follows. These apostles and prophets were equipped to explain the happenings of the baptizing of Israel in the Holy Ghost, poured out from heaven in such abundance that every one of of them could drink and be saved. This is the beginning of the church of Jesus Christ and these apostles and apostles are the foundation of the church. The building rests upon and is built upon this foundation, with Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone upon which the foundation is laid. The building is built with living stones in whom each stone is indwelt with the Holy Spirit individually and when the building is finally complete is corporately the temple of the Holy Ghost forever.

This building is not a Jewish church but it does have a gentile character. It's formation does not negate either an Israel or a gentile population in the world. The church is not designated by either these people groups, but it is formed by converts from both groups in their own orders, first Jews and then gentiles. That is how the history is written and that is what is explained to us by the epistles.

32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

There is the three distinct people groups of this age, and the trinitarian signature that convinces us that God is in control. Now I am going to post a series of passages that will affirm something I have said above.

The beginning of the church, the body, of Jesus Christ.
18 And he (Jesus Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Ep 2:18 For through him we both (Jew and gentile believers in context) have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye (gentile believers) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (Jewish believers), and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

WHOEVER heard of the foundation not being part of the building?

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them (the gentiles), as on us (the Jews in Jerusalem) at the beginning (of the forming of the church of Jesus Christ).
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Same type of baptism but at a different time.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift (the Holy Ghost) as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

The trinitarian signature is evident in the building;
1) The chief cornerstone
2) the foundation
3) the building

1) Jews
2) gentiles
3) Holy Ghost

1)The head of the body, Jesus Christ
2) The Body - the believers
3) The Holy Ghost

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Two questions;
1) What did Israel seek for?
2)Who are the elect who found it?

Answer to question one:

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Answer to question 2;

Rom 11: I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
He is speaking of the physical seed of Abraham through Jacob.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Here it is . This is the answer. It is a remnant of this people who will believe.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

But the remnant doctrine of Israel is not forever. It will end when the church of Jesus Christ is full or complete.

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

How will he save them all and when?

Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

This is prophecy.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman (Jesus) went into a far country (Heaven) to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return (to the earth).
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come (in the interim).
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

This is still in our future today when he takes his kingdom and gives out rewards for faithful service.

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

All rebels of Israel who was against his rule will be slain when he returns and there will be none left who are not saved.

The key to biblical understanding is to train oneself to believe the words. Salvation is by believing the words of God in all things he says.

The apostles are the onetime foundation of the church of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

To God be the glory.

 

[101G]

All of the first members of the body of Christ, the church, were of Israel in the beginning of it's formation during the apostolic era. Not a single gentile was a member until Cornelius in Acts 10.

was not Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch a GENTILE? lets check the record.
Acts 6:3 "Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business." Acts 6:4 "But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word." Acts 6:5 "And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:"

the qualification was ONE must be "full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom" so by definition of being a proselyte, Nicolas was a GENTILE. and many proselytes was at Pentecost. supportive Scripture, Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven." Acts 2:6 "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language." Acts 2:7 "And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?" Acts 2:8 "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?" Acts 2:9 "Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia," Acts 2:10 "Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes," Acts 2:11 "Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God." Acts 2:12 "And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?"

so a RESET on our brother Cornelius as being the first GENTILE receiving the Holy Spirit. maybe the First Gentile OUTSIDE the Body of Christ to receive the Holy Spirit to come in from the OUTSIDE or World..

101G.

 

[jeremiah1five]

the NATURAL OLIVE TREE is not ISRAEL, but of God, (Spiritual), which, (for your flesh sake), are Jews and Gentiles/the WHOLE WORLD who answered God call, are the Branches.

Correction:
Israel is the Green Olive Tree as named by Yahweh Himself:

16 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal. Jeremiah11:16–17.

now read Romans chapter 11 and please post the verse where it say the BRANCHES are Jewish and Gentile.

101G.

I KNOW Romans 11 and here's more correction for you.
Saul is speaking of natural Israel, or Israel of the flesh, of descendant from Abraham.
Now concern yourself with the reasoning and the context:

For Saul's analogy you have to go back to the original reference by Jeremiah to place Saul's words in correct understanding.

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom. 11:16–17.

NOWHERE in Scripture are Gentiles referred to as any kind of "Olive tree." That is a designation God gave of His people Israel who went after strange gods and did whoredom (God is Husband and Betrothed to Israel His Bride.)
So, if in the original reference of Olive Tree and its identity as being Israel named so by God and there is no reference in ALL of Scripture of Gentiles being an Olive Tree - wild or otherwise - then YOUR assignment that Gentiles are a "wild Olive Tree" is in ERROR.
Again.

So, I'm not going to exert effort any more on this, that fact remains Gentiles are NEVER referred in Scripture as an Olive Tree plain and simple.

 

[jeremiah1five]

All of the first members of the body of Christ, the church, were of Israel in the beginning of it's formation during the apostolic era.

The disciples were still Israel awaiting the fulfillment of the kingdom restored to Israel (Acts 1:6.)
and the promises God made to Abraham and to his seed, a people later known as the children of Israel were to be the recipients of those promises, even Israel of today.
The Church Christ promised to build was founded and populated by Jews and for the next four decades Jews were to recipients of the Holy Spirit of Promise and were being born-again and saved. Thus, the spiritual body of Christ were Jews. They are also the Church and Bride of Christ.

Not a single gentile was a member until Cornelius in Acts 10. That was in the year 40 AD. The Acts is the historical record of the post resurrection ministry of Jesus Christ through his apostles and prophets to whom he had given his Spirit and authority to bind and loose sins as they ministered to Israel first and then later to the gentiles. This history is recorded in John 20 and it happened at the end of the same day that Jesus Christ our Lord resurrected from the dead. One must believe the words of John in his chapter 20 of his gospel before he is equipped to believe any words that records the history of anything that follows. These apostles and prophets were equipped to explain the happenings of the baptizing of Israel in the Holy Ghost, poured out from heaven in such abundance that every one of of them could drink and be saved. This is the beginning of the church of Jesus Christ and these apostles and apostles are the foundation of the church. The building rests upon and is built upon this foundation, with Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone upon which the foundation is laid. The building is built with living stones in whom each stone is indwelt with the Holy Spirit individually and when the building is finally complete is corporately the temple of the Holy Ghost forever.

Cornelius was indeed a Gentile, but he was also a "God Fearer" who were Gentiles seeking to become part of Israel and were, if you will, one cut from making it reality. Part of becoming a Gentile proselyte was making solemn vows, offering sacrifices, circumcision. They sympathized with Jews and Judaism and were a class all by themselves. They were not hard-core, uncircumcised Gentiles in the strict sense of the word but were closely tied to Jews and Judaism. Why shouldn't the God of Abraham give them the Holy Spirit to inform the Jewish Church that God was looking out for Jewish allies.

This building is not a Jewish church but it does have a gentile character. It's formation does not negate either an Israel or a gentile population in the world. The church is not designated by either these people groups, but it is formed by converts from both groups in their own orders, first Jews and then gentiles. That is how the history is written and that is what is explained to us by the epistles.

For the first four decades after Pentecost the Church Christ was building until He stopped at the destruction of the Jewish Temple was populated by thousands of Jewish Christians who were still Israel the Olive Tree and now spiritual members of Christ's body. Hard-core, idol-worshiping, uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles did not begin to enter the Jewish Church era until after the destruction of the Temple, but for all intents and purposes everything about the New Covenant even its writings were Jewish through and through. And why not. God was keeping covenant and prophetic promises as Redeemer, Deliverer, and King to His Bride and Church ("called out [ones].")

32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
There is the three distinct people groups of this age, and the trinitarian signature that convinces us that God is in control. Now I am going to post a series of passages that will affirm something I have said above.

The beginning of the church, the body, of Jesus Christ.
18 And he (Jesus Christ) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Ep 2:18 For through him we both (Jew and gentile believers in context) have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye (gentile believers) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints (Jewish believers), and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The "WE" are referring to Jews.
The "Gentiles" were proselytes and under God's direction and instruction were under Jewish protection as was in the Old Testament. They are identified as "strangers" and "foreigners" in the OT and were not of the class of Gentiles that had no dealings with Israel at all. These would have no idea or knowledge of a Jewish Messiah and what He was about being idol-worshipers and worshiping gods or rock and stone and wood, etc.
The writers of the New Covenant Scriptures (Matthew through Revelation) were Jewish Christians writing to their brethren the Jews and other Jewish Christians.

WHOEVER heard of the foundation not being part of the building?
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them (the gentiles), as on us (the Jews in Jerusalem) at the beginning (of the forming of the church of Jesus Christ).
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Same type of baptism but at a different time.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift (the Holy Ghost) as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

You need to make distinction between the God Fearers and proselytes in one accessible to Judaism group, and uncircumcised, non-covenant, idol-worshiping Gentiles who had nothing to do with Israel or their Messiah or their religion, etc. Cornelius was a sympathizing observer to the Mosaic Law Gentile who was one cut short of being received as an ally and friend as opposed to the hard-core, uncircumcised, ignorant to anything Jewish Gentiles that were outside thew Jewish community.

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
The trinitarian signature is evident in the building;
1) The chief cornerstone
2) the foundation
3) the building
1) Jews
2) gentiles
3) Holy Ghost
1)The head of the body, Jesus Christ
2) The Body - the believers
3) The Holy Ghost

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
Two questions;
1) What did Israel seek for?
2)Who are the elect who found it?

Answer to question one:

Rom 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Answer to question 2;

Rom 11: I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
He is speaking of the physical seed of Abraham through Jacob.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Here it is . This is the answer. It is a remnant of this people who will believe.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

But the remnant doctrine of Israel is not forever. It will end when the church of Jesus Christ is full or complete.

The bringing in of hard-core post-Temple Gentiles is not associated with the body of Christ nor with Israel proper through the Abrahamic Covenant for Gentiles are not included in the three Jewish Covenants (Abrahamic, Mosaic, and New), nor is there any evidence in the Jewish Scriptures in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets of God making any covenant with Gentiles or the seed of Gentiles. Everything about salvation is OF THE JEWS and it is strictly a Jewish history without Gentiles except when going to war against them (Assyria, Babylonian, Greek, Roman, etc.)

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

How will he save them all and when?

Luke 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
This is prophecy.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman (Jesus) went into a far country (Heaven) to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return (to the earth).
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come (in the interim).
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

This is still in our future today when he takes his kingdom and gives out rewards for faithful service.

No, it is past. In the future Israel shall receive her Redeemer, Savior, and King.

15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds)
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

All rebels of Israel who was against his rule will be slain when he returns and there will be none left who are not saved.

And this happened in A.D. 70 when the Romans laid waste to Israel and scattered her people far and wide. As of 1948 Jews have been returning to Israel as fulfillment of several prophecies of God bringing back His people into their Promised Land.

The key to biblical understanding is to train oneself to believe the words. Salvation is by believing the words of God in all things he says.

The apostles are the onetime foundation of the church of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

To God be the glory.

Yes, in one sense, but although the Jewish Church is laid upon the Jewish apostle and prophets, the apostles and prophets themselves are laid upon the foundation which is Christ:

11. 1 Co 3:10–11.
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

To God be the Glory.

 

[101G]

6 The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
17 For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal. Jeremiah11:16–17.

this is exactly why he made a NEW COVENANT with A. the HOUSE of Israel, and not the tribes of Israel. for a tree with broken branches is not a TREE... LOL, Oh my.

I KNOW Romans 11 and here's more correction for you.
Saul is speaking of natural Israel, or Israel of the flesh, of descendant from Abraham.
Now concern yourself with the reasoning and the context:

Natural Israel is NOT, again, is NOT Spiritual Israel, LISTEN and LEARN, you want to know about your seed of Abraham according to the FLESH. Romans 9:5 "Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen." Romans 9:6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:" (READ THAT AGAIN). Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called." Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." SO YOUR FLESH OF ABRAHAM MEANS NOTHING.
THE PROMISE? YES, the HOLY SPIRIT, which was only Given at Pentecost for all PEOPLE, not just for Israel ONLY. now let's see who the HOLY SPIRIT For. Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
question, is God still calling all people unto himself? YES, even as we speak, if one is still in there sins there are not on the TREE. Amen..... and sin was not removed from the world until Christ. there is no SIN in or ON GOD.

there are no fleshly Israel on the tree. not under the NEW Covenant.... again, the Olive Tree is Spiritual, Israel was never Spiritual.
now think, if fleshly Israel was in God as Branches, and (SIN) was still present, are you saying God was a part of Sin, or accept sin? no, when sin was removed, that's when Romans 9:8 is in effect. "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." so who of ISRAEL was on the TREE? let's go back to Roman 9 ... and finish up. Romans 9:9 "For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son." Romans 9:10 "And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;" Romans 9:11 "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth"

NOT OF WORKS, was not sacrifices a work of the LAW? ..... (smile)....lol, lol, lol, OH dear. ..... what did God say? but of him that calleth BINGO. understand something, in Christ Jesus there is Neither Jew nor Greek/Gentile, HELLO. God is not JEWISH. Hello again. so try again.

NOWHERE in Scripture are Gentiles referred to as any kind of "Olive tree."

LISTEN and LEARN, you say you know Romans 11, well you missed this. Romans 11:17 "And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;" ONE MORE Romans 11:24 "For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?"

not lets put an end to the Olives ... Tree(s)....... lol, LISTEN,

Ephesians 2:12 "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" Ephesians 2:13 "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." Ephesians 2:14 "For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;" Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;" (READ THAT AGAIN). Ephesians 2:16 "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" Ephesians 2:17 "And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh." (BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES) Ephesians 2:18 "For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." Ephesians 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;" Ephesians 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;" Ephesians 2:21 "In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:" (THERE IS THAT TREE) Ephesians 2:22 "In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."

101G.

 

[JD731]

was not Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch a GENTILE? lets check the record.
Acts 6:3 "Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business." Acts 6:4 "But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word." Acts 6:5 "And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:"

the qualification was ONE must be "full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom" so by definition of being a proselyte, Nicolas was a GENTILE. and many proselytes was at Pentecost. supportive Scripture, Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven." Acts 2:6 "Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language." Acts 2:7 "And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?" Acts 2:8 "And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?" Acts 2:9 "Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia," Acts 2:10 "Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes," Acts 2:11 "Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God." Acts 2:12 "And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?"

so a RESET on our brother Cornelius as being the first GENTILE receiving the Holy Spirit. maybe the First Gentile OUTSIDE the Body of Christ to receive the Holy Spirit to come in from the OUTSIDE or World..

101G.

Your comments highlights the problem with cults and isms that saturate the religious landscape of our day. That problem is manifested as a person looking at one word in the biblical text and seeing another and then teaching others as if the imagined word is actually the one in the text.

You have looked at the text with the word "proselyte" and you have seen the word "gentile." Now, you have tried to convince the reader of your comments that the word is "gentile." There are reasons this will not work for you.

First, a proselyte is a person who has not been born of the physical lineage of Abraham, with whom God has made his covenants of promise, and yet has converted to the Jewish way of life. The Jewish law of Moses allows this and the convert becomes one of them in practice, keeping all of the law that is demanded, beginning at circumcision, the token of the covenant. From Abraham to Jesus Christ there was an operative principle of divine dealing for the nation of Judah and Israel, the law of Moses, which was done away by the institution of the New Covenant by the blood of Jesus Christ. This convert is no longer viewed as a gentile, but as a proselyte and as one of them. It would be improper to call the convert a gentile and none of the texts that you quoted to prove the person was a gentile did so. Yours was a futile exercise.

Next, you said the following:

"was not Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch a GENTILE? lets check the record.
Acts 6:3 "Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business." Acts 6:4 "But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word." Acts 6:5 "And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:"

This was early in church history and the apostles and prophets that were in charge of this decision of appointing these 7 men, whose names we have, did not regard Nicholas as a gentile but as a Jew. Otherwise when Peter, in AD 40 was called upon to preach the gospel for the first time to gentiles, a deed that caused controversy among these very same apostles and prophets, that had chosen Nicholas earlier to minister to the widows and orphans, concerning going into the house of the gentile Cornelius would not make any sense.

Look at the result of Peter's going to Cornelius and his gentile friends at his house;

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (This is the baptism of the gentiles with the Holy Ghost in the same fashion as happened to the Jews in Acts 2)
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Now look at the reaction later when the Jewish brethren in Jerusalem heard of this eventuality! (the same guys who had chosen Nicholas in Acts 6)

Acts 11:And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God.
2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,

I read that twice so I could be sure I had read it correctly. Peter did not make proselytes of Cornelius and the gentiles and did not require them to be circumcised and become Jews in order to be saved. Just WOW! All he said was they would be saved if and when they believed the gospel of Christ Jesus.

Besides that, Peter made this wild but true statement as an explanation of what God had just done for the gentiles:

13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? (The like gift is the Holy Ghost to indwell them and is eternal life)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Evangelistic statement:

The Holy Ghost of God, who is the life of God (and of course is not constrained by time nor distance) indwelt no man except Jesus Christ and Adam before his fall before the events of the cross where Jesus Christ shed his blood as a sacrifice of the God-Man to wash away sins and renew all who will receive him to the image that Adam lost when he introduced sin and death into the world by his disobedient act. The image he lost is the image of God, trinitarian, Soul, body, and the Spirit of God. God himself became a man because there was no other way to eliminate sin. So, our salvation is in three tenses now through Jesus Christ.

Past - We have been saved through faith in him from the penalty of sin, which is eternal death in the lake of fire where all the unsaved will go when they are physically resurrected from the grave and their souls from hell fire to stand judgement for their deeds. (physical death is the departure of the human soul, the spiritual part of man, from the human body, the physical part of man).
Present - We are being saved from the power and control of sin in our lives by yielding our wills to God by the power of the Holy Ghost who lives in us
Future - we will be saved from the possibility of sin - This will occur when we receive the new body like unto the glorious body of Christ after his resurrection from the dead. This new body is the hope of the Christian and the whole church will receive it at the same time at the rapture.

Ga 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

God will have all men to be saved but you must come on his terms. You cannot be wrong about who he is and what he did for us and still be saved.

 

[civic]

the NATURAL OLIVE TREE is not ISRAEL, but of God, (Spiritual), which, (for your flesh sake), are Jews and Gentiles/the WHOLE WORLD who answered God call, are the Branches.

now read Romans chapter 11 and please post the verse where it say the BRANCHES are Jewish and Gentile.

101G.

The natural branches are the Jews/ Israel and the gentiles have been grafted in who are not the natural branches but the wild ones as per Paul in Romans 11.

I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people,whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel:3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”[a]? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”[c]
9 And David says:

“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”[d]

Ingrafted Branches​

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles,how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root,18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.”20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

All Israel Will Be Saved​

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[g]
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Doxology​

33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and[i] knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”[j]
35 “Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”[k]
36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.

hope this helps !!!

 

[101G]

You have looked at the text with the word "proselyte" and you have seen the word "gentile." Now, you have tried to convince the reader of your comments that the word is "gentile." There are reasons this will not work for you.

Look at the result of Peter's going to Cornelius and his gentile friends at his house;

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (This is the baptism of the gentiles with the Holy Ghost in the same fashion as happened to the Jews in Acts 2)
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

as may came with Peter? ..... and was not "proselyte" at Pentecost, yes, as I have pointed out.

and if a congregation was Spanish and Baptist, and I became a Baptist to, do that make me Spanish?

101G

 

[101G]

The natural branches are the Jews/ Israel and the gentiles have been grafted in who are not the natural branches but the wild ones as per Paul in Romans 11.

which Israel? Natural Seed or Spiritual? which one. and after that answer it will answer the rest of your questions.

101G.

 

[civic]

which Israel? Natural Seed or Spiritual? which one. and after that answer it will answer the rest of your questions.

101G.

Roman’s 11 read it