Are Musical Instruments Forbidden in Church Meetings?

[Frank Russell]

"Are Musical Instruments Forbidden in Church Meetings?"

Imagines a scenario where someone begins to speak, and another person blows a trumpet as loud as they can ...

 

[Fred]

Imagines a scenario where someone begins to speak, and another person blows a trumpet as loud as they can ...

That wouldn't done "decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40).

 

[mailmandan]

Musical instruments were obviously considered a help to praise in the Old Testament. It seems strange to say that something God thought was a blessing in regard to praising Him in the Old Testament is now unacceptable in the New Testament church.

Since instrumental music has the Old Testament precedent of being approved of God ("musical instruments of God" 1 Chronicles 16:42), and there is no evidence that there was a time when this approval ceased, I believe that we have biblical authority for its validity.

We are authorized to use “psalms” in the NT (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16). Ephesians 5:19 says "..speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.." and correspondingly Colossians 3:16 says to, "..admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." The word "psalm" in the Greek dictionary, definition (#5568): "A set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp, or other instrument)." The root word of psalm means "to twitch, twang or pluck," such as pluck a string of a musical instrument."

Strong's Concordance
psalmos: a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
Original Word: ψαλμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: psalmos
Phonetic Spelling: (psal-mos')
Short Definition: a psalm
Definition: a psalm, song of praise, the Hebrew book of Psalms.
HELPS Word-studies
5568 psalmós – a psalm ("Scripture set to music"). Originally, a psalm (5568 /psalmós) was sung and accompanied by a plucked musical instrument (typically a harp), especially the OT Psalms.

[The Psalms of the OT were often sung and were accompanied by sophisticated musical arrangements].

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from psalló
Definition
a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
NASB Translation
Psalm (1), psalm (1), Psalms (3), psalms (2).

The words "making melody" are used in Ephesians 5:19, but "how" this is done is found in Isaiah 23:16, and it is with a musical instrument:" Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered."

Also, Amos 5:23 speaks of "the melody of thy viols," which is also reference to a musical instrument. So if "the Bible interprets itself," these passages show "how" to make melody – with musical instruments.

*If a particular church wants to leave out musical instruments in their worship, that is their prerogative. But I don't believe that it's right for them to judge other churches who choose to use musical instruments like David did and as the apostle Paul instructed.

 

[Frank Russell]

That wouldn't done "decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40).

Yeah, but it's fun.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

You have to ask @Bob Carabbio I'm sure he knows. I heard somewhere that there's no banjo players in heaven because there's some things even Jesus can't forgive. I'm not making that up there's this song with that title.

As I've said before, the Banjo and the fiddle both share the nickname: "Devil's Walking Stick".

 

[dwight92070]

Please try looking up "Were You There? by the Annie Moses band on youtube.

 

[dwight92070]

I tried to open a new topic, "Women in Ministry", but I was unsuccessful. So I'll start here.

I recently read a sentence at the bottom of a member's post. It goes something like this: "Don't put God in a box. If He wants to use a woman in ministry, He can."
Of course He can. But if we define "ministry" very narrowly, such as a pastor, then why would God call a woman to be a pastor on the one hand, and yet forbid a woman to be a pastor in His word, on the other hand?
In the qualifications for a pastor or elder or overseer or bishop (all are the same thing), Paul specifically says that "An overseer ... must be the husband of one wife ... He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God)?" 1 Tim. 3:1-5

So who does God expect to manage a family? The father, the husband, not the mother, not the wife. Obviously, if the father dies, or leaves his family, the mother steps in and does the managing. However, if she is a widow less than 60, Paul instructs her to remarry, have children if she is able to, keep house, and don't allow Satan an occasion for reproach. Then the new husband would manage the family.

So if a man desires to be a pastor, he must first show that he is a good manager of his family.
There's no scripture where Paul says that a woman can be a pastor, by being a good manager of her family. If she has a husband, then she is not the manager - he is.

In fact, this is confirmed by Paul in Titus 1:6:
" ... I left you in Crete that you would ... appoint elders in every city ... if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife ..."

In 1 Cor. 14:34-35 Paul says, "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

This sounds almost oppressive, but I don't think Paul means it that way. I think he is referring to an attitude among women that Peter speaks of in 1 Peter 3:3-6 "Your adornment must be ... the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear."

I think Paul is saying that women are not to lead the church or to be in a position of authority over the church. Paul confirms this again in 1 Tim. 2:9-15 " ... I want women to adorn themselves ... by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
Obviously, if she taught the whole church, she would be teaching and exercising authority over her own husband, who would be sitting among the others in the church. Paul didn't want that and neither did God.

Did you notice that Jesus never appointed one woman apostle? Apparently, it is not His will that women lead the church. Paul does allow the older women to teach the younger women - and of course, mothers teach their sons along with their husbands. But in church, only men should teach a crowd consisting of men and women.

Paul then justifies his instruction by going all the way back to creation:
"For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint."
Before Eve ate the forbidden fruit, she should have checked with Adam, and submitted to his authority, but she did not. Apparently, if women are not in submission to their husbands, they will be susceptible to being deceived. If their husband tells them to do something that is a sin against God, they should not obey that.

 

[koberstein]

I tried to open a new topic, "Women in Ministry", but I was unsuccessful. So I'll start here.

I recently read a sentence at the bottom of a member's post. It goes something like this: "Don't put God in a box. If He wants to use a woman in ministry, He can."
Of course He can. But if we define "ministry" very narrowly, such as a pastor, then why would God call a woman to be a pastor on the one hand, and yet forbid a woman to be a pastor in His word, on the other hand?
In the qualifications for a pastor or elder or overseer or bishop (all are the same thing), Paul specifically says that "An overseer ... must be the husband of one wife ... He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God)?" 1 Tim. 3:1-5

So who does God expect to manage a family? The father, the husband, not the mother, not the wife. Obviously, if the father dies, or leaves his family, the mother steps in and does the managing. However, if she is a widow less than 60, Paul instructs her to remarry, have children if she is able to, keep house, and don't allow Satan an occasion for reproach. Then the new husband would manage the family.

So if a man desires to be a pastor, he must first show that he is a good manager of his family.
There's no scripture where Paul says that a woman can be a pastor, by being a good manager of her family. If she has a husband, then she is not the manager - he is.

In fact, this is confirmed by Paul in Titus 1:6:
" ... I left you in Crete that you would ... appoint elders in every city ... if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife ..."

In 1 Cor. 14:34-35 Paul says, "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

This sounds almost oppressive, but I don't think Paul means it that way. I think he is referring to an attitude among women that Peter speaks of in 1 Peter 3:3-6 "Your adornment must be ... the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear."

I think Paul is saying that women are not to lead the church or to be in a position of authority over the church. Paul confirms this again in 1 Tim. 2:9-15 " ... I want women to adorn themselves ... by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
Obviously, if she taught the whole church, she would be teaching and exercising authority over her own husband, who would be sitting among the others in the church. Paul didn't want that and neither did God.

Did you notice that Jesus never appointed one woman apostle? Apparently, it is not His will that women lead the church. Paul does allow the older women to teach the younger women - and of course, mothers teach their sons along with their husbands. But in church, only men should teach a crowd consisting of men and women.

Paul then justifies his instruction by going all the way back to creation:
"For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint."
Before Eve ate the forbidden fruit, she should have checked with Adam, and submitted to his authority, but she did not. Apparently, if women are not in submission to their husbands, they will be susceptible to being deceived. If their husband tells them to do something that is a sin against God, they should not obey that.

I tried to open a new topic, "Women in Ministry", but I was unsuccessful. So I'll start here.

I recently read a sentence at the bottom of a member's post. It goes something like this: "Don't put God in a box. If He wants to use a woman in ministry, He can."
Of course He can. But if we define "ministry" very narrowly, such as a pastor, then why would God call a woman to be a pastor on the one hand, and yet forbid a woman to be a pastor in His word, on the other hand?
In the qualifications for a pastor or elder or overseer or bishop (all are the same thing), Paul specifically says that "An overseer ... must be the husband of one wife ... He must be one who manages his own household well, keeping his children under control with all dignity (but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God)?" 1 Tim. 3:1-5

So who does God expect to manage a family? The father, the husband, not the mother, not the wife. Obviously, if the father dies, or leaves his family, the mother steps in and does the managing. However, if she is a widow less than 60, Paul instructs her to remarry, have children if she is able to, keep house, and don't allow Satan an occasion for reproach. Then the new husband would manage the family.

So if a man desires to be a pastor, he must first show that he is a good manager of his family.
There's no scripture where Paul says that a woman can be a pastor, by being a good manager of her family. If she has a husband, then she is not the manager - he is.

In fact, this is confirmed by Paul in Titus 1:6:
" ... I left you in Crete that you would ... appoint elders in every city ... if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife ..."

In 1 Cor. 14:34-35 Paul says, "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

This sounds almost oppressive, but I don't think Paul means it that way. I think he is referring to an attitude among women that Peter speaks of in 1 Peter 3:3-6 "Your adornment must be ... the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear."

I think Paul is saying that women are not to lead the church or to be in a position of authority over the church. Paul confirms this again in 1 Tim. 2:9-15 " ... I want women to adorn themselves ... by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness. A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
Obviously, if she taught the whole church, she would be teaching and exercising authority over her own husband, who would be sitting among the others in the church. Paul didn't want that and neither did God.

Did you notice that Jesus never appointed one woman apostle? Apparently, it is not His will that women lead the church. Paul does allow the older women to teach the younger women - and of course, mothers teach their sons along with their husbands. But in church, only men should teach a crowd consisting of men and women.

Paul then justifies his instruction by going all the way back to creation:
"For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint."
Before Eve ate the forbidden fruit, she should have checked with Adam, and submitted to his authority, but she did not. Apparently, if women are not in submission to their husbands, they will be susceptible to being deceived. If their husband tells them to do something that is a sin against God, they should not obey that.

Seems like modern America has forgotten some of the writings in the B'rit Hadashah (New Testament). We now have women preachers and pastors everywhere. Ex. Joyce Meyer thar have a cult like Taylor Swift following. I also notice in some churches I've attended in the past that women has assumed the position of "Straw Bosses" since the church has refused women pastors. These straw bosses are political and in one instance has gotten a pastor voted out.
Shalom

 

[Seabass]

(I will not limit my post here to the use of musical instruments in worship to God since my post covers a broader issue than just the use of musical instruments.)

There is a false narrative that is popular among many people and/or religious groups that goes something like this:

--- If the Bible does not specifically condemn "X" then there is nothing wrong with "X" ---

This idea is not only unscriptural, it is not even couched in logic.

The Bible works on the basis of delegated authority from the top down..... from God down to the Christian and going against God's delegated authority is the very essence of sin (1 Jn 3:4). The military works from the top down..from Generals down to privates. Privates are to follow those orders yet if each private did as he pleased then there maybe an army but that army could not function with each person believing and doing what he wanted, when he wanted. The very reason why religion in the country is the contradictory disarray and shambles that it is for lack of following delegated authority from God.

The Roman centurian demonstrated this delegated authority in the Roman army (Matt 5:9) though he had authority over men he was still under authority from those over him. Christ Himself was under delegated authority for He did not come to earth to say and do His own will but the will of His Father (Jn 4:34). The Apostles chosen by Jesus was under delegated authority, they could bind and loose what had already been bound in loosed in heaven (Mt 18:18). Christ's church is under delegated authority (Col 3:17) whatsoever the church does in word (doctrine it teaches) and deed (doctrine it practices) do all in the name of the Lord. The phrase to do in the name of the Lord means by the Lord's authority.

Therefore before the church engages is some doctrinal event as worship then there must be authority for from God in His word else the church is acting without authority and the worship then is sinful, vain worship (Mk 7:7)....the church acting without authority then the church is engaged in following the corrupt commandments of men, not God. Paul told the church to not to go above, beyond the limit of the scriptures, that is, to not to act without authority (1 Cor 4:6). Therefore if there is no delegated authority for use of "x" then the use and practice of "x" is sinful. Even if "x" is not specifically condemned it is still sinful if there is no delegated authority for it.

========================

Not only is it necessary to follow delegated authority one must also follow the right source of delegated authority for following the wrong source is sinful.

Christ, not Moses, not the OT prophets, not David, not Abraham, but Christ is the source for NT delegated authority.
Christ, not Moses or David, is the Founder of the church (Mt 16:18) was given all power and authority in heaven and earth (Mt 28:18), was the mediator of the NT (Heb 9;15-17), has the words of life (Jn 6:68)...again NOT Moses NOT David but Christ.

Luke 9:28ff..on the Mount of transfiguration Peter saw Christ speaking to Moses and one of the OT prophets. Peter wanted to "make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said". Peter was unknowingly trying to put Christ on equal footing with Moses and the prophet when they were not Christ's equal but His servants. Then a voice from heaven tells Peter this is My beloved Son, hear him. Peter though raised as a Jew but now as a Christian is being told not to listen to Moses and the Prophets but listen to Christ, the Savior of the world, listen to His delegated authority found in His NT.

This is the same message Peter took to the Jews at Pentecost, Acts 3:22..."A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you." Not hear Him in a few things or some things but in ALL things hear ye Him. Hence CHRIST, NOT Moses, NOT David but Christ is whom Christians hear in all things. Listening to Moses or David is following the wrong source of delegated authority and is sinful. And if Christ's NT law does not give delegated authority to doing "x" (as musical instruments) then "x" is sinful in acting without Christ's authority, going above what is written. Hence "x" does not have to be specifically forbidden to be sinful.

Therefore for musical instruments, or anything else, to be used in Christ's church worship then there must be delegated authority from Christ and His NT law for it and there is NONE for the use of musical instruments. Acting without this authority from Christ is why religion in this country is in the disarrayed, convoluted, contradicting mess that it is. The world is not blind to this, the world has been calling out the hypocrisy of this mountain of contradicting lies for ages now.

 

[civic]

(I will not limit my post here to the use of musical instruments in worship to God since my post covers a broader issue than just the use of musical instruments.)

There is a false narrative that is popular among many people and/or religious groups that goes something like this:

--- If the Bible does not specifically condemn "X" then there is nothing wrong with "X" ---

This idea is not only unscriptural, it is not even couched in logic.

The Bible works on the basis of delegated authority from the top down..... from God down to the Christian and going against God's delegated authority is the very essence of sin (1 Jn 3:4). The military works from the top down..from Generals down to privates. Privates are to follow those orders yet if each private did as he pleased then there maybe an army but that army could not function with each person believing and doing what he wanted, when he wanted. The very reason why religion in the country is the contradictory disarray and shambles that it is for lack of following delegated authority from God.

The Roman centurian demonstrated this delegated authority in the Roman army (Matt 5:9) though he had authority over men he was still under authority from those over him. Christ Himself was under delegated authority for He did not come to earth to say and do His own will but the will of His Father (Jn 4:34). The Apostles chosen by Jesus was under delegated authority, they could bind and loose what had already been bound in loosed in heaven (Mt 18:18). Christ's church is under delegated authority (Col 3:17) whatsoever the church does in word (doctrine it teaches) and deed (doctrine it practices) do all in the name of the Lord. The phrase to do in the name of the Lord means by the Lord's authority.

Therefore before the church engages is some doctrinal event as worship then there must be authority for from God in His word else the church is acting without authority and the worship then is sinful, vain worship (Mk 7:7)....the church acting without authority then the church is engaged in following the corrupt commandments of men, not God. Paul told the church to not to go above, beyond the limit of the scriptures, that is, to not to act without authority (1 Cor 4:6). Therefore if there is no delegated authority for use of "x" then the use and practice of "x" is sinful. Even if "x" is not specifically condemned it is still sinful if there is no delegated authority for it.

========================

Not only is it necessary to follow delegated authority one must also follow the right source of delegated authority for following the wrong source is sinful.

Christ, not Moses, not the OT prophets, not David, not Abraham, but Christ is the source for NT delegated authority.
Christ, not Moses or David, is the Founder of the church (Mt 16:18) was given all power and authority in heaven and earth (Mt 28:18), was the mediator of the NT (Heb 9;15-17), has the words of life (Jn 6:68)...again NOT Moses NOT David but Christ.

Luke 9:28ff..on the Mount of transfiguration Peter saw Christ speaking to Moses and one of the OT prophets. Peter wanted to "make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said". Peter was unknowingly trying to put Christ on equal footing with Moses and the prophet when they were not Christ's equal but His servants. Then a voice from heaven tells Peter this is My beloved Son, hear him. Peter though raised as a Jew but now as a Christian is being told not to listen to Moses and the Prophets but listen to Christ, the Savior of the world, listen to His delegated authority found in His NT.

This is the same message Peter took to the Jews at Pentecost, Acts 3:22..."A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you." Not hear Him in a few things or some things but in ALL things hear ye Him. Hence CHRIST, NOT Moses, NOT David but Christ is whom Christians hear in all things. Listening to Moses or David is following the wrong source of delegated authority and is sinful. And if Christ's NT law does not give delegated authority to doing "x" (as musical instruments) then "x" is sinful in acting without Christ's authority, going above what is written. Hence "x" does not have to be specifically forbidden to be sinful.

Therefore for musical instruments, or anything else, to be used in Christ's church worship then there must be delegated authority from Christ and His NT law for it and there is NONE for the use of musical instruments. Acting without this authority from Christ is why religion in this country is in the disarrayed, convoluted, contradicting mess that it is. The world is not blind to this, the world has been calling out the hypocrisy of this mountain of contradicting lies for ages now.

The NT says the singing of psalms which were done with instruments.

I guess the Trumpet is not a musical instrument either right ?

What about harps ?

Harps in Revelation: The Book of Revelation mentions harps in relation to heavenly worship.

• • In Revelation 5:8, the four living creatures and twenty-four elders are described as having harps.
  • In Revelation 14:2, a heavenly sound is described like that of many harpists.
  • In Revelation 15:2, the victorious are described as having "harps of God

 

[Seabass]

The NT says the singing of psalms which were done with instruments.

I guess the Trumpet is not a musical instrument either right ?

What about harps ?

Harps in Revelation: The Book of Revelation mentions harps in relation to heavenly worship.

• • In Revelation 5:8, the four living creatures and twenty-four elders are described as having harps.
  • In Revelation 14:2, a heavenly sound is described like that of many harpists.
  • In Revelation 15:2, the victorious are described as having "harps of God

psalms simply means a pious song and the NT commands to sing psalms and hymns nowhere to play psalms and hymns.

============================

Revelation uses very figurative and symbolic language (Rev 1:1 - "signified") and the harps in Revelation 14 are not literal but John is using a figure of speech, a simile...

Rev 14:2
And I heard a voice from heaven like the roar of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder. The voice I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps,

What he heard simultaneously sounded LIKE water, LIKE thunder LIKE harps..not literal water. not literal thunder not literal harps.

If one is to argue that God wants instruments in worship based upon Rev 14:2, then consistency demands that he also bring in many waters and loud thunder at the same time. Yet the argument misses that all John heard was a voice. Verse 3 they were singing a new song not actually playing literal harps. Again, your argument ignores the simile and focus on the harps and not the singing.

If one wants to press this argument and make the verses here in Rev 14 literal while ignoring the simile then "No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth." must be taken literally also. Then literally only 144,000 could learn that new song. Obviously the 144,000 is as figurative as the water, thunder and harps. All God wants is singing and if that singing sounds LIKE roaring of waters, LIKE loud thunder or LIKE harps then so be it. But nothing here in Rev 14 supports the use of musical instruments in the NT worship of the church.

 

[Clay]

In all the examples of believers meeting together for worship in the New Testament, we have no clear instance of musical instruments being used. Most churches today utilize musical instruments of all kinds, but some use none at all. The lack of a biblical example of a church using musical instruments has led some to believe that musical instruments should not be used in the church but that our singing should be done a cappella.

 

[mikesw]

Only banjos are forbidden in church assemblies.

 

[Red Baker]

The difference between NT worship and OT worship, is it "simplicity", which should be clear to any sincere seeker and lover of the truth. We worship God in spirit and truth, and truly we do not need and an over abundance of worldly means ~and truly could do so without any!

That being said, I'm convinced many go way too far, with their specific musical techniques to create an "emotionally charged" atmosphere or "frenzy" to stimulate worship. They call this "the Spirit of God is here, I can feel his presence", etc., etc. This practice is common in charismatic and Pentecostal traditions, (but, by no means limited to them) where expressive and intense worship is highly valued, over worshipping in spirit and truth, even though they would never admit this, but an honest and unbias observer knows otherwise. I have watched many SBN network shows as an unbias observer.

So, since the NT is silence and said nothing concerning musical instruments, I would not judge any group using moderation with its music as part of its services, as long as moderation is use and for the right use thereof. Here is true worship:


Habakkuk 3:17-19~" Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labour of the olive shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; the flock shall be cut off from the fold, and there shall be no herd in the stalls: Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation. The LORD God is my strength, and he will make my feet like hinds' feet, and he will make me to walk upon mine high places. To the chief singer on my stringed instruments.

 

[Jim]

In all the examples of believers meeting together for worship in the New Testament, we have no clear instance of musical instruments being used. Most churches today utilize musical instruments of all kinds, but some use none at all. The lack of a biblical example of a church using musical instruments has led some to believe that musical instruments should not be used in the church but that our singing should be done a cappella.

Where do you read of any believers meeting together for worship in the New Testament?

 

[Red Baker]

@Jim

Where do you read of any believers meeting together for worship in the New Testament?

I knew this was coming! I fully understand what you are asking Jim, I think you and I have discussed this in past years. "going to Chruch" is not a biblical phrase, and truly unscriptural. We worship God in our hearts 24/7. coming together are for other reasons, for the most part...fellowship, learning the word of God, breaking of bread, etc.

 

[Jim]

@Jim

I knew this was coming! I fully understand what you are asking Jim, I think you and I have discussed this in past years. "going to Chruch" is not a biblical phrase, and truly unscriptural. We worship God in our hearts 24/7. coming together are for other reasons, for the most part...fellowship, learning the word of God, breaking of bread, etc.

I have long been troubled with the idea of coming together on the first day of the week "to worship". I am particularly annoyed with the reference of the one leading the song service as the "worship leader"; and that especially with the modern rock and roll song services so popular. But perhaps that is just my age showing up again.

 

[atpollard]

Let them explain for themselves “Why no musical instruments?” …

Have you noticed how every other church has musical instruments? There are very few churches around without musical instruments. What's that about? Are we just a small group that can't afford a band? Do we lack musical talent? Or, perhaps worse, are we legalistic, and have we created a law that is not found in the Bible? Last week we studied the second greatest commandment, to love our neighbors as ourselves. In that study, I said that the Pharisees have created additional laws and have gone beyond God's word to protect people from breaking the law. They put a heavy burden on the backs of God's people. Is that what we have done by preventing the use of musical instruments?

The question has hit me harder than most. I grew up with someone playing piano at church services. I'm used to that. Plus, my grandfather was the music director at Presbyterian and Baptist churches. My family is fond of music at church services. So I feel pressure to conform to that.

Why do churches of Christ not use musical instruments? Our text in Ephesians 5:19-20 is often used to say that we are supposed to sing only. Maybe that's the only explanation for why we don't use musical instruments you have been given, and you think it's a bad one. What about all the times musical instruments are used throughout the Bible? Do we really think they are evil? Is God really not okay with us using them?

BIBLICAL AUTHORITY​

Before we dive into the discussion on musical instruments, we need to look at the idea of Bible authority. What is Bible authority, and why is it important? While some might consider Bible authority to be made up by men. It's actually tied into what we have been studying in Ephesians.

Ephesians 5:6--10 (ESV) --- 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not become partners with them; 8 for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), 10 and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

Ephesians 5:15--17 (ESV) --- 15 Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the best use of the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.

Searching for Bible-based authority to do something simply means that we are trying to discern what is pleasing to God. It means that we care about doing what God wants more than about doing what we want. We search the Bible's commands, examples, and ideas to discover what God wants, and we try to apply it to ourselves in a reasonable way.

The Old Testament is full of tragedies when people failed to care about what God wants. One of the most notable events is found in Lev 10. Here we read about Nadab and Abihu creating an incense that they wanted to worship God with. God had previously specified the recipe for incense and commanded the priests not to offer any other fire. But listen to what happened.

Leviticus 10:1--3 (ESV) --- 1 Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it and laid incense on it and offered unauthorized fire before the Lord, which he had not commanded them. 2And fire came out from before the Lord and consumed them, and they died before the Lord. 3 Then Moses said to Aaron, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Among those who are near me I will be sanctified, and before all the people I will be glorified.’ ” And Aaron held his peace.

Some might think that this was the God of the Old Testament. He is much more forgiving today. But he was very patient with his people back then. There are countless times he forgave them and refused to destroy them. But this time is different. He explains, "Among those who are near me I will be sanctified, and before all the people I will be glorified." God is not sanctified or set apart as the one true God of the universe, nor is he glorified when we treat him like a god we make up for ourselves. If we make up our own god, we can worship that god with whatever we like. But the God of all creation should not be treated that way. If men are going to draw near to him, they must seek to do what he wants them to do. In other words, It's not okay for us to do whatever we want.

We understand this, don't we? This is the reason why we don't use cheeseburgers and Coke for the Lord's Supper. Jesus specified how to take the Lord's Supper, and we want to honor his command. Well, what about music? Where do we find commands, examples, or ideas about musical instruments in the New Testament? There isn't much information about them. We see them in Revelation, but there doesn't seem to be a single command or example in the first-century church. Should we take silence as permission? Should we do what we want to do?

THE OLD TESTAMENT​

Some people here have probably had this conversation with people about musical instruments, and you might have used the idea that there aren't any commands in the New Testament. Have you ever heard someone say, what about David? Much of the denominational world uses the fact that David played musical instruments and even wrote Psalms to be played with musical instruments to signify that God is okay with it. Is that true?

Let's do a brief overview of the use of musical instruments in the Old Testament.

TABERNACLE​

The first use of musical instruments in congregational worship was in Numbers 10. God commanded Moses to make and use trumpets.

Numbers 10:1--10 (ESV) --- 1 The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 2 “Make two silver trumpets. Of hammered work you shall make them, and you shall use them for summoning the congregation and for breaking camp. 3 And when both are blown, all the congregation shall gather themselves to you at the entrance of the tent of meeting. 4 But if they blow only one, then the chiefs, the heads of the tribes of Israel, shall gather themselves to you. 5 When you blow an alarm, the camps that are on the east side shall set out. 6 And when you blow an alarm the second time, the camps that are on the south side shall set out. An alarm is to be blown whenever they are to set out. 7But when the assembly is to be gathered together, you shall blow a long blast, but you shall not sound an alarm. 8 And the sons of Aaron, the priests, shall blow the trumpets. The trumpets shall be to you for a perpetual statute throughout your generations. 9 And when you go to war in your land against the adversary who oppresses you, then you shall sound an alarm with the trumpets, that you may be remembered before the Lord your God, and you shall be saved from your enemies. 10 On the day of your gladness also, and at your appointed feasts and at the beginnings of your months, you shall blow the trumpets over your burnt offerings and over the sacrifices of your peace offerings. They shall be a reminder of you before your God: I am the Lord your God.”

Notice a few things about this passage. First, notice the amount of detail that has been given about the trumpets. God describes how to make the trumpets, when to blow them, where to blow them, how many, and who was supposed to blow them. They were blown for a warning, to assemble the people, and as part of the feasts. God does not condemn using musical instruments, but he does specify how they are used when worshiping him. Nothing else is described. All of this is in connection with the Tabernacle worship of God's people.

TEMPLE​

For 600 years, that's all that we have heard about musical instruments. We assume that nothing changed in their worship, but we don't really know because nothing is recorded. We know that God didn't change his commands. Then, David comes along. David was a talented musician, and he eventually used his musical skills to worship God. But did he decide to do that on his own, or did God instruct him on how to worship like he did Moses?

The answer to this question is found throughout the book of Chronicles. Many of you may not have studied the book of Chronicles very much. But this book is all about the kings of Judah, and it tells us about David establishing musical instruments in worship. The interesting part is that he doesn't claim to make this form of worship up. He tells us that God gave him instructions to establish musical instruments in the worship that will take place at the temple.

1 Chronicles 28:19 (ESV) --- 19 “All this he made clear to me in writing from the hand of the Lord, all the work to be done according to the plan.”

All of the instructions that David was giving to Solomon (11-19) were from the hand of the Lord. David didn't come up with a new way to worship God apart from God's commands. He wasn't treating God like a god he created for himself. He still regarded God as a holy and sanctified God in his heart.

This is even more clear as we progress through time. Every good king or leader tries to restore the temple worship set up by David. They aren't looking to set up their own worship. Jehoida tried to put all of the priesthood back together as David had instructed (because God instructed David). Hezekiah wanted to bring back the temple worship just like David had set up.

2 Chronicles 29:25--27 (ESV) --- 25 And he stationed the Levites in the house of the Lord with cymbals, harps, and lyres, according to the commandment of David and of Gad the king’s seer and of Nathan the prophet, for the commandment was from the Lord through his prophets. 26The Levites stood with the instruments of David, and the priests with the trumpets. 27 Then Hezekiah commanded that the burnt offering be offered on the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song to the Lord began also, and the trumpets, accompanied by the instruments of David king of Israel.

We also see Josiah doing the same thing.

2 Chronicles 35:4--5 (ESV) --- 4 Prepare yourselves according to your fathers’ houses by your divisions, as prescribed in the writing of David king of Israel and the document of Solomon his son. 5 And stand in the Holy Place according to the groupings of the fathers’ houses of your brothers the lay people, and according to the division of the Levites by fathers’ household.

Notice that these men are trying to restore what God had commanded David. They aren't trying to establish their own way of worshiping God. Nor are they convinced that David's changes were his own idea. They knew that God had instructed David to set up temple worship in this way, and they wanted to restore that.

SECOND TEMPLE​

After the destruction of Jerusalem, Zerubabbel and Nehemiah do the same thing.

Ezra 3:10 (ESV) --- 10 And when the builders laid the foundation of the temple of the Lord, the priests in their vestments came forward with trumpets, and the Levites, the sons of Asaph, with cymbals, to praise the Lord, according to the directions of David king of Israel.

Nehemiah 12:24 (ESV) --- 24 And the chiefs of the Levites: Hashabiah, Sherebiah, and Jeshua the son of Kadmiel, with their brothers who stood opposite them, to praise and to give thanks, according to the commandment of David the man of God, watch by watch.

Nehemiah 12:35 (ESV) --- 35 and certain of the priests’ sons with trumpets: Zechariah the son of Jonathan, son of Shemaiah, son of Mattaniah, son of Micaiah, son of Zaccur, son of Asaph;

Nehemiah 12:45--46 (ESV) --- 45 And they performed the service of their God and the service of purification, as did the singers and the gatekeepers, according to the command of David and his son Solomon. 46 For long ago in the days of David and Asaph there were directors of the singers, and there were songs of praise and thanksgiving to God.

All of their worship was according to the direction of God because they were seeking to please him.

WHAT ABOUT US?​

Where is the authority for us to use musical instruments? There is all of this instruction given in the establishment of the Tabernacle and Temple. What about our Temple? The truth is that we don't have any specific instructions aside from what we read in Ephesians 5:19-20. We have examples of people preaching, praying, eating the Lord's Supper, and singing, but there is no mention of playing musical instruments. There are spiritual gifts given to the early church for their upbuilding (prophecy, tongues, knowledge, etc.), but never is playing instruments on those lists. We have descriptions of traditions that apostles have handed down in the early church letters. They don't have any information on playing music either. So should we assume that all Christians worshipped every Sunday as the Jews worshipped in the Temple during their feasts? Do we really believe that Christians everywhere did that on the first day of every week?

It's important to remember that we have a new Temple and that we are part of a new Priesthood. New Testament books like Hebrews and Galatians tell us not to go back to the old system of worshipping God. Jesus has made the old way of sacrificing and worshipping obsolete. If we want to keep part of the Old Law, we will be obligated to keep it all. Their instructions do not work for us because they were offering sacrifices while playing music. Plus, God commanded only a small group of Levites to play. It wasn't people from every tribe. We are here to follow the New Testament pattern and worship as those who enjoy the sacrifice of Christ. So David's method is not sufficient.

The fact that there is no authority, detail, or prescription for how or when we worship with music in the NT makes it a horrible idea. We want to honor God and set him apart because he is not a god we create and worship however we want. He is holy and deserves the glory. If he wanted music, he would have commanded it through the Holy Spirit. He would have gifted his people to play in the New Testament. But he didn't. If we are going to break out musical instruments, let's go ahead and grab some cheeseburgers and Coke.

HEART STRINGS​

Ephesians 5 tells us to sing and make a melody in our hearts. God wants us to praise him and build up one another in our songs. Then, he wants us to submit to one another and be what God has called us to be. We have no church record of any musical instrument in any historical writings until 600 years after Christ. A pope brought a musical instrument into Rome, and it most rejected it. Musical instruments did not really become a part of church services until around 1600 AD. But even then, there was broad-scale rejection. It's only recently that the churches have assumed music is acceptable to God without fighting against it. Listen to a few quotes.

• Thomas Aquinas 1260AD - "The church does not use musical instruments such as the harp or lyre in praising God, in case she should seem to fall back into Judaism. Instruments usually move the soul to more pleasure than create inner moral goodness."
• Erasmus 1520AD - "Modern church music is so constructed that the congregation cannot hear one distinct word. The choristers themselves do not understand what they are singing, but to priests and monks it constitutes the whole of religion. Why will they not listen to Paul? There was no such music in Paul's time."
• John Calvin, "Musical instruments in celebrating the praises of God would be no more suitable than the burning of incense, the lighting up of lamps, and the restoration of the other shadows of the law."

These three men all criticized the idea of bringing music into worship because it was rapidly spreading throughout the churches. It was different from what they were used to and all about enjoyment. The church did not sanctify God by finding a verse that says God wants men to play music. This was not about doing what God wanted. It was all about doing what felt good at the time.

CONCLUSION​

I say all of this with sadness in my heart. I enjoy Christian music, and I see nothing wrong with listening to it recreationally. Some may disagree with that, and that's fine as long as you love those who don't share that opinion. I think it helps me to focus more on God and fulfill other commands. However, we must make a distinction between listening to music about God in our cars, offices, and homes and playing musical instruments when we gather together as God's temple for congregational worship. This time is all about honoring and glorifying God. We want to discern what is pleasing to him and do that. For 1600 years, Christians believed that singing only was pleasing to God. I agree. We have commands on worshiping God when we come together using our tongues and hearts, but musical instruments are not a part of that worship.

If you want to ask me how God will judge those who do not share this practice, I will not act like I know. But I pray for mercy for them because I believe they are sinning. We aren't saved because we live a sin-free life. We are saved because of the grace of God in Jesus. The only way we lose that salvation is if we know the truth and refuse to do it. Please don't focus on others and worry yourselves about their condition concerning musical instruments until you make sure that you are doing what is pleasing to the Lord. Also, stay humble. We have to recognize that we are adding things up to determine what pleases God, and there could be an error in our math. I pray for God's mercy toward us for whatever we are failing in.
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[Seabass]

So, since the NT is silence and said nothing concerning musical instruments, I would not judge any group using moderation with its music as part of its services, as long as moderation is use and for the right use thereof. Here is true worship:

God's silence on a subject "x" does not allow man to then assume nothing is wrong with "x". Man then is acting on his assumption, not on authorization from God.

Silence is binding, silence is prohibitive, it's a basic principle of logic found throughout the Bible. Logically God does not have to specifically eliminate everything He does not want, all God has to do is say what he does want and thereby that eliminates what He does not want. God instructed Noah to construct the ark of gopher wood, God was silent on Noah using other types of wood. Did that silence mean Noah could build the ark using another type of wood other than gopher? No. When God said what to use, gopher wood, then at the same time that also eliminated Noah from using any other type of wood. Logically God did not have to make a long list specifing all the types of wood He did not want used, but simply state what one particular wood He did want the ark to be constructed of which eliminated all other types of wood.

This is a basic principle of logic people use everyday. There are about 10 million different colors...shades and hues of colors the human eye can detect. If you want your kitchen painted one particular shade of blue, do you have to specifically eliminate the 9,999,999 colors you do not want? Of course not, when you tell the painter you want this one particular shade of blue then that logically eliminates the other 9,999,999. Hence, if the painter paints your kitchen red, then he acted without authorization, he did wrong. Even though you did not specifically prohibit red, when you said blue that eliminated red.

Man cannot hold God to an illogical level that man does not even hold himself to......

The Silence of the Scriptures: Permissive or Prohibitive?

Some allege that whatever is not expressly forbidden is allowed in religious practice. Others contend that anything not authorized is not permitted. Is there any validity to the argument from silence?

christiancourier.com

 

[civic]

God's silence on a subject "x" does not allow man to then assume nothing is wrong with "x". Man then is acting on his assumption, not on authorization from God.

Silence is binding, silence is prohibitive, it's a basic principle of logic found throughout the Bible. Logically God does not have to specifically eliminate everything He does not want, all God has to do is say what he does want and thereby that eliminates what He does not want. God instructed Noah to construct the ark of gopher wood, God was silent on Noah using other types of wood. Did that silence mean Noah could build the ark using another type of wood other than gopher? No. When God said what to use, gopher wood, then at the same time that also eliminated Noah from using any other type of wood. Logically God did not have to make a long list specifing all the types of wood He did not want used, but simply state what one particular wood He did want the ark to be constructed of which eliminated all other types of wood.

This is a basic principle of logic people use everyday. There are about 10 million different colors...shades and hues of colors the human eye can detect. If you want your kitchen painted one particular shade of blue, do you have to specifically eliminate the 9,999,999 colors you do not want? Of course not, when you tell the painter you want this one particular shade of blue then that logically eliminates the other 9,999,999. Hence, if the painter paints your kitchen red, then he acted without authorization, he did wrong. Even though you did not specifically prohibit red, when you said blue that eliminated red.

Man cannot hold God to an illogical level that man does not even hold himself to......

The Silence of the Scriptures: Permissive or Prohibitive?

Some allege that whatever is not expressly forbidden is allowed in religious practice. Others contend that anything not authorized is not permitted. Is there any validity to the argument from silence?

christiancourier.com

Can I ask if you ever watch TV